BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!

yeah i know who rocked out on Princeton Review for their SATs...Mr "obtuse"

Do you and your buddies all sit around the water cooler and talk about your glory days of running over other children that were one to two years younger in your youth?. I bet that is some fun conversations !

My older kids played lacrosse when the divisions were U15, U13, U11, etc. Every other year they would be playing with kids older than them. Not once back then do I remember thinking "darn, this is unfair". Are you going to complain in HS when there are kids 4 years older than him?

Some people are born complainers - it's not their fault - they need to whine , cry , point fingers & make excuses.

But now it’s year by year
They corrected that mistake. Hopefully they will correct the grade mistake too. It’s as simple as black and white. It’s not even a debate anymore. Youth kids play their age. That’s it, end of discussion. I just read somewhere a 13 year old just graduated college. I think it was Fullerton state. Hypothetically if this kid wanted to play lacrosse, I’d say he should play with other 13 year olds. How is this topic even a discussion?

I completely agree but I would take it 1 step further and do it by every semester. I would have 16 teams from 9th -12th grade. All those boys born in the first semester from Sept 1 to November 1 who are freshman play together and then the same for sophomores, juniors and seniors. That would be 4 teams for just those 2 months. Although people may complain that a boy born on September 1 and another boy born on September 15th are 15 days apart and thus there is a complete advantage for the boy 15 days older. HMMMMM, clearly this wont work. Now I got it. If there are 180 days in the school year then they can have a team for every day that a school is in session. This may make it hard on the budget and most teams will only have one player and probably no teammates unless there are 2 or more boys on the same day. but if the school they are playing doesn't have any boys born that day then there wont be a game. Oh, wait never mind. What if someone is born in the morning and someone else is born at night but on the same day. The boy could be nearly 24 hours older. This is a major problem. Oh well, I tried to solve the problem.

I like this idea. The only other thing I would add is a height & weight requirement. After all , you want a level playing field.

Some kids are great, some kids are good, some kids are average, some kids are below average. Some parents can’t have their little kids be average players. They can’t go to work or to social events and say my son Johnny is only an average lax player. They want to tell people Johnny scored 8 goals in yesterday’s game. Johnny can’t do this, he is trying his best, he is a great kid, a great student, lots of friends, but mom and dad want him to dominate. I got a great idea, let’s allow our 8 year old to play against 6 and 7 year olds. Lol. Now we can tell all our friends how good Johnny is. I agree. Let’s hold the kid back, even though he will eventually be a mental wreck like us.

I personally think an 8 year old boy would have more competition against an 8 year old girl, then a 6,7 year old boy. So weak parents, if your youth son can’t play his age boys, before you hold him back, have him play on age against the girls.

I know two people whose sons play down. Any other straw man arguments to justify your son going against younger players? Have you convinced them yet??

Play your age or just clam up. No matter what you say, if your kid plays down in youth sports, you have no credibility. There is nothing you can say, write or tweet that can defend your 8 year old playing against, 6 and 7 year olds. Nothing. Nada. Conversation over.

And everyone gets a trophy and free hat

You sure told them. Now go get your shine box and come down to MD

"You sure told them. Now go get your shine box and come down to MD"

Congratulations! Your post has been selected as a finalist for densest post on BOC! Incredible as there is very stiff competition to be in the running for this award.

"I'm confused... why is your son playing in the wrong age group? I'm sure you can find kids the same age your son can play with - perhaps it was mistake made during registration or is will this be a continually evident character flaw that you own, yet shown each and every time your kid practices and plays in games."

I know the answer, his son is playing in a younger age because his own age he is pretty good. Playing down with younger kids he is really good. Mom and dad like really good over pretty good.

Yes but it's wrong and unfair especially in a contact sport where size, speed and experience disparities make the sport unsafe and unfair. But since they're comfortable w. it, they should have no problem w/ everyone calling out their kid as "Holdback Hal" - nice check Hal, way to bulldoze a 7 yo Hal. It's funny to watch the sidelines when the question is posed outloud "These kids are rising X graders, is that right? Really?" Crickets....

Seriously how small are your kids if a 1 or 2 year age gap is making them look so awful? My son was small but never once did he get run over or abused by a holdback kid. Are you sure it’s the holdback and not just a lack of athleticism on your boys part?

Even been to an elite soccer based tournament or even a normal one. It is by age , Jan1- Dec31. When the kids line up you can easily see the difference , especially at 9th and below, Each year is a big difference. Of course there is occasionally tall or short., but for most part it is easy to see the progression down. I actually never thought as much until one day they were all lined up, It looked like steps out there.

Playing down is an advantage for more than just being bigger. You are usually playing more since you are bigger , etc. etc
Not that hard to see. Youth Sports should be by age, is that easy to see. Lacrosse is what it is, I dont see it going back due to Private school influence and better clubs getting most of the holdbacks.

Of course it’s wrong and unfair. That’s why this is even a topic. If it was right and fair this wouldn’t be a discussion. All normal people would agree 8 year olds playing 6 and 7 year olds isn’t right. The people who play their kids down and do this also know this is wrong. They will try to justify it, trying to make people believe that their kid doesn’t have an advantage over the younger kids. When normal people hear these holdback parents trying to justify it, we roll our eyes or laugh to ourselves. We say these people are pathetic.

What's pathetic is when someone continuously post that 8 year olds are playing against 6 year olds. This is a total fabricated lie & does not happen. A kid must be really terrible for someone to use this lying excuse.

Just look at the parents of the (alleged) holdbacks - many of their parents played lacrosse growing up and know how to work the system to their advantage. This holdback situation is not a coincidence. These are the same parents who are the PAL coaches, the one's "volunteering" to help w travel teams, etc

I look at the situation the other way. Not my son playing against holdbacks, but hypothetically if he were the holdback. One of my sons is really good. He is one of the top 3 or 4 players on his travel team and probably the best on his town PAL team. If I hold him back this Sept and have him play 5th grade lacrosse next season, instead of 6th grade lacrosse, it would be insane. I know for a fact he would be ridiculously dominating those younger kids. I can picture this conversation at the dinner table
Me” Johnny I’m going to have you repeat 5th grade this fall”

Wife and son” what are you talking about, Why would you want to do that?

Me” Because I want you to do even better in lacrosse”

Wife and son(as they stare at me like I lost my mind)” dad I’m doing great in lacrosse and school,What are you talking about?“

Me” yes Johnny you are, but I want you to be super duper in lacrosse. Playing against these younger kids, you will dominate.”

After my wife and son saw that I wasn’t joking, my son would probably go upstairs and cry. My wife would have me talk to some psychiatric professional. She would tell them my husband is losing his mind.

What position does you kid play - I can guarantee he'll get run over by a kid two years old then him, especially under ncaa rules. It's pretty noticeable a few of "6th" grade players are bigger and heavier than the coach - who coaches these kids to use their size. at one tourney, the parents admit it and say if a 7th grade aged kid plays against 5th graders, the tourney director is allowing it. And kids from different teams months afterwards will compare notes of teams and player #s, calling out holdbacks.

No it’s not fabricated how 8 years olds being held back play 6 and 7 year olds. My son turned 11 in February. He plays with 10 and 11 year olds, all within a year. If I hold him back, next February he turns 12 he will still be playing 10 and 11 year olds. It’s not that hard to follow.

Easy there holdback dad ! Just cause your holdback son may only be one year older than his teammates doesn't mean that there isnt some players out there two years older. It is not as prevalent as 1 year older hockbacks, but they are out there. Now relax, and get back to your holdback playing down.

How about a cut off date of June 30th - which is the end of the school year . This could be a start to the hold back debate.

This guy is totally right. I can see it in my own family. I have two sons 18 months apart one grade apart. Older son is 5'10 140 lbs 14 years old Younger son is 4'8 80 lbs 12 and a half. They would have played on the same middle school team if not for covid. It looks ridiculous. Looks even worse with equipment on. Even worse my older is not the oldest kid on the team. There are 4 kids who are playing down on the school grade cut off, 2 of which that repeated a grade older than him by 6 to 7 months. This has been going on since 1st grade same kids. Even worse there are two kids smaller than my younger one. Its going on in the year below too when my younger kid was in the older grade on a combo some of lower grade kids were the same age or older than him. Parents cheat build up their kids confidence by beating up on younger kids.

My youngest son is your youngest son's age, but your oldest son's size. He's an on grade 6th grader but the constant assumption is that he's a holdback.

Who cares about assumptions. If he is not a holdback, great for your son. I hope he does really well. He is playing his age, doing it the right way.

If he is bigger, faster and better than little Johnnie, then he MUST be a holdback, Sorry.

Your son is not a holdback and just big, he is good to go bro. The problem is making your kid bigger, faster stronger by having him play against younger kids. Not because he is big for his age. All kids grow differently. Some people think it is okay think its okay for their kid to "grow" for one or two years before your kid is born.

Prior to the holdback craze that is now an epidemic , no one thought that. Everyone just said that is one big kid for his age. No one thought about holdbacks, Frankly sports were about age, why would you.

Now, with your holdback son and all the other holdbacks playing down with on age players, Many of the "bigger, faster and better than little Johnnie" are holdbacks, so it is logical they would think that.

What if it is the other way where one kid has not hit puberty and that is reason for reclass. Football/Wrestling have weight limits for a reason. Football does it best in my opinion age/weight. Nothing is perfect though but it is not cheating and if you think about it once in high school or college doesn't matter because team is based on skill only nobody cares about your age or grade. It only matters in the younger years.

Dude stop with the what if’s already. Just have your kids play their age. That’s the answer. No need to ask these questions anymore. Tell your wife, he will he ok playing kids his age. Enjoy your summer.

What if by the time my son is a freshman in high school no one cares about holdback anymore?

People will say Lax is a physical sport so my suggestion wont work however here is the answer and if people cant accept a couple of years playing together then you don't understand sports and want to live in your bubble and NOTHING will make u happy. In swimming, which is the sport I did growing up on a national level and in college in Division 1 age groups are 8 and under, 9-10, 11-12, 13-14, Open (meaning 15 and up), but sometimes 15-16 and then 17 up. From experience the boys and girls who just aged up will generally be smaller and towards the bottom of their age group and then when they mature over the course of 2 years they become dominant. Then again when they age up to another age group the cycle repeats. Swimming could do every year but they don't. Many people will say this wont work bc the older kids will take the spots bc they are bigger/stronger but this will be age based. There are a litany of other reasons people will complain but the fact that middle school is generally 7th and 8th and JV is generally 9th and 10th and varsity is generally 11th and 12th (yes I know there are exceptions but children playing against older or bigger and stronger happens ALL THE TIME. If the fear is it cant be done under 7th grade than have year based lax for the younger years and then in 7th make it every cpl years. This will solve the problems bc it will be AGE based not GRADE BUT I am sure you will still have parents complaining. Anyway, just my thoughts and for the record I have no issue with holdbacks and no my child is not one.

Dude stop with the holdback excuses. Just have your kid take his L's. That's the answer. No need to ask these questions anymore. Tell your wife, she will be ok losing all the time. Enjoy your summer.

We are talking youth holdbacks. Youth = age.
HS and college = anything goes
Now this has been addresses 1000s of times and each time it’s asked, the same honest, accurate response is answered.

Please don’t respond, my cousins, nephews, next door neighbor is blind and he is a holdback. We aren’t talking about stuff like that ok.

There is no holdback excuse little man. My on age son is doing fantastic, if I hold him back, he will dominate every game. I won’t screw the other parents like that. My son would look foolish going against younger kids. Now find a new topic to talk about because you sound foolish. Enjoy your summer. Discussion over.