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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Anyone with practices lined up now? Besides True Yes. some Madlax teams are practicing but not sure if 2026 is one of them.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Other than hawks what 2026 elite teams are practicing this week?
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Other than hawks what 2026 elite teams are practicing this week? Ok I will play along; I am pretty sure all the elite level teams at 2026 (Looney's, 91, Crabs, FCA etc) start up this week. Response - "I said Elite".
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out Good morning, donkey hole.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out Laxachustets should worry about there looses to BBL & Eclipse & not the Hawks ok fella
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out Laxachustets should worry about there looses to BBL & Eclipse & not the Hawks ok fella Wow, when did Eclipse beat them? BBL is a good squad.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out Laxachustets should worry about there looses to BBL & Eclipse & not the Hawks ok fella They didn't lose to BBL. Beat them 9-5 in the Prime Time final in CT. Lost to Eclipse by 1 in a group game LXC dominated, then beat them 8-4 in Finals of tourney. Get your facts straight pal.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out Laxachustets should worry about there looses to BBL & Eclipse & not the Hawks ok fella Hey fella, Laxachusetts was the last team, other than Edge, to beat the Hawks. And keep working on the grammar and spelling.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out Laxachustets should worry about there looses to BBL & Eclipse & not the Hawks ok fella Hey fella, Laxachusetts was the last team, other than Edge, to beat the Hawks. And keep working on the grammar and spelling. So the Hawks and Laxachusetts haven't played since 2018? My son played on a team that had beaten the 2026 Hawks team in the summer of 2018 too. He's on a different team now and played them again last year. That Hawks team is much better than they were in 2018. Hopefully Laxachusetts has improved as well if they plan on hanging.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out I would agree that they need to play each other and probably would have seen each other a couple of times at NLF opening weekend and the NLF championship. But as Covid would have it, likely not to happen. Hawks are a great team and deserve all the praise they get. Would be a great game to watch for sure.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out I would agree that they need to play each other and probably would have seen each other a couple of times at NLF opening weekend and the NLF championship. But as Covid would have it, likely not to happen. Hawks are a great team and deserve all the praise they get. Would be a great game to watch for sure. Did they not play last year at the NLF opener because Edge beat Laxachusetts?
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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LMAO...My son's 6th grade team is the best! We beat you and we beat them..No one can beat us!! LMAO....
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out I would agree that they need to play each other and probably would have seen each other a couple of times at NLF opening weekend and the NLF championship. But as Covid would have it, likely not to happen. Hawks are a great team and deserve all the praise they get. Would be a great game to watch for sure. Did they not play last year at the NLF opener because Edge beat Laxachusetts? Laxachusetts lost to Tigers in semis
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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LMAO...My son's 6th grade team is the best! We beat you and we beat them..No one can beat us!! LMAO.... LMAO.....you're reading and commenting in a 6th grade lacrosse forum.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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There are a lot of very good MD teams in this age division. Looneys probably should have been included in the top 20 along with Team 91 MD. Arden Diamondbacks were a top 10 team last year. Where did those players go?
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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LMAO...My son's 6th grade team is the best! We beat you and we beat them..No one can beat us!! LMAO.... We all cant all be on elite teams. Have your son hit the wall !
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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“There are a lot of very good MD teams in this age division. Looneys probably should have been included in the top 20 along with Team 91 MD. Arden Diamondbacks were a top 10 team last year. Where did those players go?“
The majority of the starting squad and second line middies moved to True Annapolis to form the core of the team. I believe one or two moved to Looneys. One or two made the Hawks. A number of the guys moved down a division or two to various other central MD teams like AYLA, Swarm, Rebels, PLC, etc.
The bunch that moved to True were basically the D-Back studs. As such True will be a real power when play resumes later this summer.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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“There are a lot of very good MD teams in this age division. Looneys probably should have been included in the top 20 along with Team 91 MD. Arden Diamondbacks were a top 10 team last year. Where did those players go?“
The majority of the starting squad and second line middies moved to True Annapolis to form the core of the team. I believe one or two moved to Looneys. One or two made the Hawks. A number of the guys moved down a division or two to various other central MD teams like AYLA, Swarm, Rebels, PLC, etc.
The bunch that moved to True were basically the D-Back studs. As such True will be a real power when play resumes later this summer. Yes, a real power
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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“There are a lot of very good MD teams in this age division. Looneys probably should have been included in the top 20 along with Team 91 MD. Arden Diamondbacks were a top 10 team last year. Where did those players go?“
The majority of the starting squad and second line middies moved to True Annapolis to form the core of the team. I believe one or two moved to Looneys. One or two made the Hawks. A number of the guys moved down a division or two to various other central MD teams like AYLA, Swarm, Rebels, PLC, etc.
The bunch that moved to True were basically the D-Back studs. As such True will be a real power when play resumes later this summer. Jesus dude. If you want to just talk about True, just talk about True. The one or 2 True parents that come on here and act like someone else is asking a question just so they could talk about themselves is pathetic. we all see through you. Desperation is a stinky cologne..
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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“There are a lot of very good MD teams in this age division. Looneys probably should have been included in the top 20 along with Team 91 MD. Arden Diamondbacks were a top 10 team last year. Where did those players go?“
The majority of the starting squad and second line middies moved to True Annapolis to form the core of the team. I believe one or two moved to Looneys. One or two made the Hawks. A number of the guys moved down a division or two to various other central MD teams like AYLA, Swarm, Rebels, PLC, etc.
The bunch that moved to True were basically the D-Back studs. As such True will be a real power when play resumes later this summer. Yes, a real power True Lacrosse, bringing Multi Level Marketing Pyramid scheme style lax to the table. If we tell you your son is good enough, will you pay us more money to be on all these teams. But don't worry, we are telling you he is good. So keep paying us to go all over the place WE promise you he's good. You won the US club lacrosse championship, the last tournament played and US club lacrosse doesn't even respect you enough to put you in the top 25. Even they know the joke of it
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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LMAO...My son's 6th grade team is the best! We beat you and we beat them..No one can beat us!! LMAO.... We all cant all be on elite teams. Have your son hit the wall ! WE? Do you play with your son on the team? Is Glory Days your favorite song?
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out you are an stunad.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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The rankings are based on 2019 NLF Opening Event in early June and the NLF Chmpionships in July. If your team didn't play in at least one those tournaments then you are not on USCL radar.
They are correctly assuming that those are the top two youth/High School tournaments in the country.
Food for thought when you are deciding which Club to place your son on in the future if he is any good post puberty.
D1 coaches know that they can see a ton of good kids at these tournaments in the High School Grades as well as the NLF individual invite only events in the Fall.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Yes. D1 coaches are just salivating over these 6 grade kids. They know that the Hawks are loaded with D1 talent and they are closely monitoring these boys so they can hand out the scholarships! My son aspires to be like these kids and i as a parent aspire to be like Hawks parents. Unfortunately for us, our son is only good enough for True, but he is working hard and HITTING THE WALL!!!!!
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Great to see all the banter returning. Hope to see some lacrosse this summer, and in particular to see how good True is. I watched them play in the fall and they were NOT anywhere near elite; they looked like a middle of the pack AAA team. But obviously some parents on this board have a different view. If it were my own son's team I would wait until after they have proven themselves to commence the bragging but that's just me.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Yes. D1 coaches are just salivating over these 6 grade kids. They know that the Hawks are loaded with D1 talent and they are closely monitoring these boys so they can hand out the scholarships! My son aspires to be like these kids and i as a parent aspire to be like Hawks parents. Unfortunately for us, our son is only good enough for True, but he is working hard and HITTING THE WALL!!!!! About time, Finally talking the boards advice ! Now Hit the Wall Again !!!!! That D1 Full scholarship is right around the corner ,
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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“There are a lot of very good MD teams in this age division. Looneys probably should have been included in the top 20 along with Team 91 MD. Arden Diamondbacks were a top 10 team last year. Where did those players go?“
The majority of the starting squad and second line middies moved to True Annapolis to form the core of the team. I believe one or two moved to Looneys. One or two made the Hawks. A number of the guys moved down a division or two to various other central MD teams like AYLA, Swarm, Rebels, PLC, etc.
The bunch that moved to True were basically the D-Back studs. As such True will be a real power when play resumes later this summer. Jesus dude. If you want to just talk about True, just talk about True. The one or 2 True parents that come on here and act like someone else is asking a question just so they could talk about themselves is pathetic. we all see through you. Desperation is a stinky cologne.. Wow, Couldnt even make True ! Thats not good
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid.
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid. Easy there..Let me explain this, What he means is MD and MA players who should be in 8th and 7th grade and hitting puberty at this time dont find on age prepuberty children in 6th grade one/two years younger that much of a challenge. Only a few on age 6th grade teams can compete at this time from LI. Might have a point at this time, but in next few years things will change. Playing down sooner or later catches up to you.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid. Easy there..Let me explain this, What he means is MD and MA players who should be in 8th and 7th grade and hitting puberty at this time dont find on age prepuberty children in 6th grade one/two years younger that much of a challenge. Only a few on age 6th grade teams can compete at this time from LI. Might have a point at this time, but in next few years things will change. Playing down sooner or later catches up to you. Keep telling yourself in a few years things will change. Like the little engine that could. We think we can we thin we can!! Guess what, it hasn't and it won't.
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid. Easy there..Let me explain this, What he means is MD and MA players who should be in 8th and 7th grade and hitting puberty at this time dont find on age prepuberty children in 6th grade one/two years younger that much of a challenge. Only a few on age 6th grade teams can compete at this time from LI. Might have a point at this time, but in next few years things will change. Playing down sooner or later catches up to you. Keep telling yourself in a few years things will change. Like the little engine that could. We think we can we thin we can!! Guess what, it hasn't and it won't. Hilarious, I think you might want to look in mirror and say that. LOL
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Will there be tryouts this year
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Will there be tryouts this year I would assume so, clubs are always looking to add good players. Maybe this year every player that wants to return gets to return.
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Will there be tryouts this year I would assume so, clubs are always looking to add good players. Maybe this year every player that wants to return gets to return. COVID may right the ship and some of these club teams won't be around for much longer. I would imagine the remaining ones would like to try and get some of these kids. If the kids play this summer and a few teams opt out, I cannot imagine them being able to go on. These kids will land somewhere and play this summer.
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid. Easy there..Let me explain this, What he means is MD and MA players who should be in 8th and 7th grade and hitting puberty at this time dont find on age prepuberty children in 6th grade one/two years younger that much of a challenge. Only a few on age 6th grade teams can compete at this time from LI. Might have a point at this time, but in next few years things will change. Playing down sooner or later catches up to you. Ahhhhhh yes, rather than talk about 11/12 year olds having fun playing lax - once again the holdback convo!! woo hoo. I think for the parents who keep on the bringing it up lets see if the conversation can be seen on every thread. C'mon you can do it!!! And no I am not the parent of a holdback. I am the parent of a rising 11th grader who plays on a travel team with MANY holdbacks and my son is young for his age BUT WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!! Move on already! Or keep complaining in everythread. Better yet, Ill start a new one and post the first thread. Boys 2040 Grads - Mid Atlantic version OMG, I was just on a date with this guy and we were talking about a second date and then all of sudden he says to me do u like lacrosse? And I like totally said yea and then he said what do you think about having a baby together? I was like we haven't even had a second date yet but I like where this is going. But then he said to me - you have to promise me you will do an 18 month pregnancy and like not the totally normal nine. And I was like why? And he was like so we can have a holdback in the womb bc it will like totally give him an advantage. when he is born he will like totally crawl faster than all the other kids and although he will be a newborn he will really be older and we will have a huge advantage in life. It will be awesome! It was like the weirdest conversation eva!! end scene . . .
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid. Easy there..Let me explain this, What he means is MD and MA players who should be in 8th and 7th grade and hitting puberty at this time dont find on age prepuberty children in 6th grade one/two years younger that much of a challenge. Only a few on age 6th grade teams can compete at this time from LI. Might have a point at this time, but in next few years things will change. Playing down sooner or later catches up to you. Ahhhhhh yes, rather than talk about 11/12 year olds having fun playing lax - once again the holdback convo!! woo hoo. I think for the parents who keep on the bringing it up lets see if the conversation can be seen on every thread. C'mon you can do it!!! And no I am not the parent of a holdback. I am the parent of a rising 11th grader who plays on a travel team with MANY holdbacks and my son is young for his age BUT WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!! Move on already! Or keep complaining in everythread. Better yet, Ill start a new one and post the first thread. Boys 2040 Grads - Mid Atlantic version OMG, I was just on a date with this guy and we were talking about a second date and then all of sudden he says to me do u like lacrosse? And I like totally said yea and then he said what do you think about having a baby together? I was like we haven't even had a second date yet but I like where this is going. But then he said to me - you have to promise me you will do an 18 month pregnancy and like not the totally normal nine. And I was like why? And he was like so we can have a holdback in the womb bc it will like totally give him an advantage. when he is born he will like totally crawl faster than all the other kids and although he will be a newborn he will really be older and we will have a huge advantage in life. It will be awesome! It was like the weirdest conversation eva!! end scene . . . I had no idea the passion the Mom's had for lacrosse until I started reading the holdback comments on this website. Every thread, my props to the ladies, glad they get involved here.
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid. Easy there..Let me explain this, What he means is MD and MA players who should be in 8th and 7th grade and hitting puberty at this time dont find on age prepuberty children in 6th grade one/two years younger that much of a challenge. Only a few on age 6th grade teams can compete at this time from LI. Might have a point at this time, but in next few years things will change. Playing down sooner or later catches up to you. Ahhhhhh yes, rather than talk about 11/12 year olds having fun playing lax - once again the holdback convo!! woo hoo. I think for the parents who keep on the bringing it up lets see if the conversation can be seen on every thread. C'mon you can do it!!! And no I am not the parent of a holdback. I am the parent of a rising 11th grader who plays on a travel team with MANY holdbacks and my son is young for his age BUT WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!! Move on already! Or keep complaining in everythread. Better yet, Ill start a new one and post the first thread. Boys 2040 Grads - Mid Atlantic version OMG, I was just on a date with this guy and we were talking about a second date and then all of sudden he says to me do u like lacrosse? And I like totally said yea and then he said what do you think about having a baby together? I was like we haven't even had a second date yet but I like where this is going. But then he said to me - you have to promise me you will do an 18 month pregnancy and like not the totally normal nine. And I was like why? And he was like so we can have a holdback in the womb bc it will like totally give him an advantage. when he is born he will like totally crawl faster than all the other kids and although he will be a newborn he will really be older and we will have a huge advantage in life. It will be awesome! It was like the weirdest conversation eva!! end scene . . . I had no idea the passion the Mom's had for lacrosse until I started reading the holdback comments on this website. Every thread, my props to the ladies, glad they get involved here. Any mother knows pregnancy lasts 10 months. This was definitely a man.
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Re: Boys 2026 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Hopefully there is so lacrosse. Probably local only. The fact that hawks and laxachusetts will not play each other for a 2nd consecutive year is beyond ludicrous. They will not get better playing slow motion, unathletic Long Island kids, or the leftover local riffraff. Maybe the two organizations can figure something out "slow motion nonathletic long island kids" ?? Wow, you for real dude? Your comment is more than laughable....even more so that its coming from a 6th grade wannabe parent whos obviously living his life through his kid. Easy there..Let me explain this, What he means is MD and MA players who should be in 8th and 7th grade and hitting puberty at this time dont find on age prepuberty children in 6th grade one/two years younger that much of a challenge. Only a few on age 6th grade teams can compete at this time from LI. Might have a point at this time, but in next few years things will change. Playing down sooner or later catches up to you. Ahhhhhh yes, rather than talk about 11/12 year olds having fun playing lax - once again the holdback convo!! woo hoo. I think for the parents who keep on the bringing it up lets see if the conversation can be seen on every thread. C'mon you can do it!!! And no I am not the parent of a holdback. I am the parent of a rising 11th grader who plays on a travel team with MANY holdbacks and my son is young for his age BUT WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!! Move on already! Or keep complaining in everythread. Better yet, Ill start a new one and post the first thread. Boys 2040 Grads - Mid Atlantic version OMG, I was just on a date with this guy and we were talking about a second date and then all of sudden he says to me do u like lacrosse? And I like totally said yea and then he said what do you think about having a baby together? I was like we haven't even had a second date yet but I like where this is going. But then he said to me - you have to promise me you will do an 18 month pregnancy and like not the totally normal nine. And I was like why? And he was like so we can have a holdback in the womb bc it will like totally give him an advantage. when he is born he will like totally crawl faster than all the other kids and although he will be a newborn he will really be older and we will have a huge advantage in life. It will be awesome! It was like the weirdest conversation eva!! end scene . . . Got it Holdback Mom, Funny stuff there, young for his age ! Thats good !
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Moderated by 1026ME, A1Laxer, Annoy., baldbear, BiggLax, BOTC_EVENTS, clax422, CP@BOTC, cp_botc, Gremelin, hatimd80, JimSection1, Ladylaxer2609, lax516, Laxers412, LaxMomma, LILax15, MomOf6, Team BOTC, The Hop, TheBackOfTheCage, Thirdy@BOTC, TM@BOTC
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