BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Should Travel Clubs Issue Partial Refunds if Lax is Cancelled?

Signing a waiver does not mean you can’t sue a club. If the club is not adhering to or violating state laws or guidelines and your kid gets sick...then you have a right to sue. If the club is operating within state guidelines, you sign a waiver and your kids gets sick...then it will be tough to sue. Signing a waiver does not release a club from all of their responsibilities to follow state and local laws, bylaws and guidelines. The US and NY state is still in a state of emergency enacted by the president and governor respectively.

oh my god.. you people are painful.. If you are so frightened, keep your son out of action.. Spend the rest of the summer in a bunker.

The rest of us will accept the (minuscule) risk and get on with life..

I've been trying to explain this to many people. They seem to be driven by emotion. This also pertains to the playing fields and venues. Any established club will be taking a large risk at this time allowing teams to get underway. If by chance, a club selects to operate outside the guidelines set in place by U.S. and State and someone files a claim, insurance company will not indemnify the club.

After taking a look at the waivers some clubs want the parents to sign for themselves and kids regarding lax tournaments, in my opinion is insane. I believe it's may be time to salvage the summer without lax this year. Good luck.

My son ('26) plays for a large Club in Western NY and I have been reading this thread and enjoying the banter. The one thing that I keep coming back to is look at the precautions the professional sports leagues are taking to get back to playing ( Quarantine periods, periodic testing, no fans, etc. ) and think to myself what politician is going to say "Yep, all clear, go ahead and have your YOUTH lacrosse tournament". Regardless if the threat of infection is real or a political football, what is the incentive for the people in power to "let them play".

WNY has been virtually unscathed during this pandemic (unlike NYC metro area) and I can't imagine my local politicians allowing us to have a regular, full contact practice this summer much less a tournament. Once Phase 4 rolls out we can get together and run drills but contact? Yeah I am not seeing it.

I want to be wrong but I fear I am not. I would love to have someone explain to me the benefit of a town, county, state allowing for a lacrosse tournament this summer?

Can't wait for the responses...

Agreed. If things get better locally, lets have some practices so kids actually learn and get better. Don't make us travel to some useless tournament and stay in some overcrowded hotel with no fully open restaurants.

My state/city is a few weeks into Phase 2. We are allowed to start youth practice starting the week of June 21 with only 25 kids allowed. At these practices there is no contact, at all.
Every concert, marathon, arts festival, carnival, 4th of July event is cancelled for the entire summer. I really can’t see anything happening all summer, unfortunately. Just wish we could get an answer to move to a fuller fall schedule so families can go on vacation instead of waiting all summer to find out at the last minute that surprise, everything is cancelled.
I can’t see anybody taking a risk to have these kids possibly get this virus. Imagine if one kid got sick, the fall back would be incredible. Even though chances are low that kids contract this virus, I don’t see this summer happening.

I am afraid that we are going to be on a slow drip of information for the rest of the summer.

There is no incentive for the tournament directors to cancel things and then have to offer refunds or credits for next year. There is no incentive for club directors to make any decision because if they shut preemptively they will be out their tournament fees and have parents asking for refunds/credits.

This is why I think the NCAA extended the Blackout period through July. I think somewhere in their thinking was the short-circuiting of the recruiting pyramid. Now I know that he '26s aren't getting recruited but most of the "good" tournaments are multi-grade events.

I completely agree with you that this limbo is the issue. I would love to know that things won't happen and I can use the funds I have allocated to rent a beach house and chill for a couple weekends...

Fair points. We didn't lose too many club practices but did lose the whole Town season....which was fully refunded. If things open after July 4th we would have lost a few practices. No more than we likely would have lost due to the usual weather this time of year. In fall, when we lost a tourney to weather, our club found us a new one. The club we left a few years ago didnt. No one went to court over it. Does weather rescheduling happen for everyone? Do you lose a certain bit of every season to weather? I can say the 7 tournaments being paid for is not what we have so I would probably look at that different. Would hope the club would as well since Im pretty sure tournaments ARE refunding and SHOULD be since all they did was pay to hold a field which the renter cant provide so will be refunding to tournament directors. I get that its hard times. Hold out hope the boys can do something they love and be a parent. If its not safe in your eyes dont put them out there. More important, try to teach them to be good people because the world needs this generation to make change!

This just gets more absurd. No politician is saying, lets have a lax tournament. They are saying this is the criteria for these things to happen. If the criteria are met and you dont agree dont play. FYI, you can get together and run drills before Phase4......gatherings of less than 10 are allowed and station based training seems to be acceptable. Phase 4 is schools returning and sports. Though lax got a bS classification I do not believe Phase 4 says what sports can and cant be played. Phase 4 is essentially saying youre back to normal. If we dont see an uptick based on the protests (which i find a lot less safe than a lax tournament,.....for the most part) why would we not play lax? Too hot (are you a WP parent) Too scared? All fine but dont ask for money back.

Covid was a hoax. CDC reports show .25% case fatality rate of symptomatic cases. Factor in the asymptomatic and better chance of lightning strike for those under age 50. 0% chance for those under 20. Play away and screw your commie overlords.

What the CDC put out are guidelines, not requirements. NYS hasn't come out with anything, but if its outside, most they say is keep distance, wash hands and don't share stuff.

Try suing a club for you getting sick and see what happens. Nothing.
First thing, try suing if you get the flu from them or chicken pox or anything else. The courts will laugh at you.
Second, you have to prove that you got sick on the field with them, not you walking to the car, talking (or drinking) in the parking lot, ect.
Third, i bet each club will give you the option to return. if you do then, it was your choice to be there.

Do club owe refunds? yes they do. how much needs to be determined once the kids get on the fields and see what tourney they can do. But asking for a refund now is pointless, unless you just want off the team.

Not to be combative (and I agree with majority of what you wrote) -- let's say you get 3 or 4 tournaments in from mid-July thru August. Do you feel that is comparable to what you paid for in your tuition package that was supposed to run from March - July? What about all the practice time lost? As nice as zoom sessions and instructional videos are, they are not a replacement for the value of hands-on coaching. And what if you were planning on a 5, 6 or 7 tournament season from Spring - Summer?

If safe to do so, I'm all for getting the season rolling. However, squeezing 3 or 4 tournaments over a 6 week period is not sufficient to not warrant some sort of credit to roll into next season. That is my opinion[/quote]
Fair points. We didn't lose too many club practices but did lose the whole Town season....which was fully refunded. If things open after July 4th we would have lost a few practices. No more than we likely would have lost due to the usual weather this time of year. In fall, when we lost a tourney to weather, our club found us a new one. The club we left a few years ago didnt. No one went to court over it. Does weather rescheduling happen for everyone? Do you lose a certain bit of every season to weather? I can say the 7 tournaments being paid for is not what we have so I would probably look at that different. Would hope the club would as well since Im pretty sure tournaments ARE refunding and SHOULD be since all they did was pay to hold a field which the renter cant provide so will be refunding to tournament directors. I get that its hard times. Hold out hope the boys can do something they love and be a parent. If its not safe in your eyes dont put them out there. More important, try to teach them to be good people because the world needs this generation to make change!
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We lost a lot of practices. In march we lost the end of our winter indoor training, which was once a week. Then starting April we go twice a week. as of today we lost about 24 practices. the older teams didn't lose as many b.c most don't practice until school lax is over, but for them, they lost about 10 practices.
Kids get better and learn from practices. Tourney and games are where they execute what they have learned. most people put a higher value on quality practices and coaching over just playing games. I know many teams did team zoom/google meeting, which is nice to keep the team connected, but by no means is that anything close to a quality practice.

The justification for limiting/cancelling professional sports is that packing stadiums (especially indoor facilities) creates a risk of transmission among the packed in fans. Your average outdoor summer lacrosse tournament doesn't create nearly the same risk. On the contrary, best science at this point suggests such outdoor exposure is VERY low risk. Weighed against the undisputed benefits of getting the kids exercise, getting the kids and parents sun (Vitamin D) and general benefits of social interaction, youth tournaments should proceed. Some basic precautions can be taken, but there is very little justification for blanket bans.

Just a couple of weeks ago, you were all over the Express forum talking about refunds, St. Anthony's H.S. etc. Over night you became the expert on the virus. Still, doesn't excuse the fact you need to enroll yourself in some sort of elementary school book club during this summer.

If nothing will happen then why are they having people sign waivers? Ask them to sell what their doing to their insurance companies and see if they get a policy renewal.

After reading one of the waivers, regardless I would never sign something as such. In my opinion, you have to be a horrible parent to agree to the risk and liability spelled out. I also think, many clubs will attempt to leave parents and their kids blowing in the wind, by continually pushing tournaments further back. In other words, they need parents to hang around this summer, in a wait and see holding pattern.

As a nurse, I have a little different perspective then most because I see on a daily basis what the virus does to the human body if you have to be hospitalized. If you think it is a hoax I would advise you to talk to someone who has been hospitalized by the disease. As far as lacrosse this summer, if tournaments are held, some people will get the virus. No doubt about it. Being outside is one thing but all of you sweaty athletes and parents will then pack into a hotel or restaurants (if open) with other people from different states. So the risk will be high at that point. The CDC (trump Admin) is quietly predicting 250,000-400,000 deaths by 1/1/21. Why? The virus has been able to embed itself in every state of the country and is awaiting to unleash this fall and winter as this was not the case when it arrived in the US. The virus got to the US at the end of our winter cycle and this fall and winter most of the country will be brought indoors for the virus to thrive. The government is quietly predicting the 2nd wave to be worse then the first and little is being done to prevent it at this time. I hope all of you safe and healthy travels.

Maybe you will get it maybe you won't. Lets say you do contract the virus and have no symptoms, but pass it along to someone who will become negatively affected by it, then what. Clubs only care about one thing and one thing only, $$$$

Its not a hoax, just not as deadly as it could be. You get the regular flu it messes you up for a week. Do we stop the world because of it? no, If you are in a high risk group, take precautions, otherwise, life should be able to go on as normal. Being outside is healthier than staying indoors cooped up. Virtually every case of a healthy symptomatic person ended up getting better. You cannot look at the outlier cases and say it is that way for everyone. As of this week, between 400-500k people per day have been tested, about 5% are positive. The data does not distinguish between symptomatic and asymptomatic. The mortality rate for people under 50 is under 1% and under 60 2% after that it goes up exponentially. The data does not support keeping everyone locked down. Sources NYC first responder and ourworldindata.org for numbers

No refunds. Lacrosse tournaments will be at the end of July and run into mid August.

Laxfest August 14-16
Lax Clash August 22-23

Kids get to enjoy June and July and play lax in August.

too bad the HS fall sports starts 2nd week of August

most people pay on these teams and want practices too. just b.c they get in the tourneys, doesnt mean that everyone is not entitled to a refund/credit for the 3+ months that was missed.

I don't want to over read your statement, but how about allowing Your kid(s) enjoy, June, July and AUGUST. Sounds like August is for your enjoyment (parent)

Yes exactly.

I do enjoy the game, so yes you are correct. Point is the summer has been taken up by practices and weekly tournaments. This year = Beach,boating, and pool June through July.
FYI - There are other tournaments that are going to be announced with late July and early August dates.
Enjoy your Sunday

Everyone is clamoring to get back to youth lacrosse and professional sports aren't even playing right now. Professional athletes will be tested on a daily basis and no fans will be at the games yet people are signing waivers without clubs addressing the safety measures they are putting in place. Are players and parents going to be tested at practice and tournaments, at least a temperature check? Are tournaments going to allow fans, if so, how many? Have clubs been in touch with the hotels in the area of the tournaments to see what safety measures they have in place? US Lacrosse just released their return to play guidelines and people from different states can't not play each other until stage 5 and a club can not operate in large groups locally until stage 4 - which only allows groups of 50 people or less (outdoors, only up to 10 people indoors). It also matters what state guidelines are in place. Also, if you are not 2021-2024 why are you exposing yourself to any tournaments this summer, does it really matter. Get you kid some training and link up with your pal teams for some small group stuff. Exposing your whole family to have 8-12 year old's play tournaments that don't mean anything is insane to me.

THANKYOU!! PERFECTLY STATED. Hopefully enough people realize that traveling to play in a pointless tournament makes no sense. Stay local, train, maybe some scrimmages against other local clubs that should be the max. While I would like some kind of credit or refund, I'd be ok with just saving hotel and travel costs

Why? Because Summer tournaments can easily be made extremely low risk, they are outdoors and people/fans aren't packed together in a stadium (or worse, indoor arena). The kids are basically at zero risk and the adults can decide if they, personally, are at risk and shouldn't attend. A blanket ban is simply not justified by the risk, especially given the health and social benefits of youth sports.

I wouldn't anticipate refunds.

Refund? Better shot of making a vaccine in your bathtub for COVID-19 ...... Are there any tournaments scheduled? Teams are now practicing but for what? Im confused. Is it a ploy to keep everyones money?

Keeping everyone’s money is every teams objective.

Can Hotels be made extremely low risk? Can restaurants be made low risk? Lets not even talk about porto potties!! It's more than the actual tournament that is at issue. I agree Let the kids play just do it locally!!

If you don’t want to be involved then dont! Quit coming on her crying like little babies! You and your kid has probably already had the virus or been exposed to it, so move on and quit trying to spoil everybody’s summer your not getting your money back. It’s the chance you take when you sign up for travel! Stay home and stink on your binky!

As a parent with a kid who does 3 sports this is the best thing ever. Not only do we get some weekends back but I think kids that go hard all year round in multiple sports could use this time off to let their bodies recover. stinks if your whole family life is geared around little johnny who only plays lacrosse but relax, it will be back next spring.

Everything being said makes sense. I’m a customer like you, I agree with you. However as a business owner/ club director, it makes business sense to try and make a lacrosse season. Doing this will give clubs the right to issue no refunds. If the season ended and they said let’s start in the fall, clubs would be on the hook for lots of money. Trust me when I tell you, winning lacrosse tournaments, your kid getting better in lacrosse, the club caring about your feelings, weighs very little in comparison to the club making money. The bottom line is this is a business, plain and simple.

The problem is lacrosse and all sports at this point seem to just have a lackluster feel to it. Teams haven’t been together in 3 months, some parents are nervous, do people get shields on helmets, nobody wants to go to a hotel, some kids aren’t allowed to practice etc. I understand the clubs view of it being a business. It just feels like things would be better starting fresh in the fall. It just doesn’t feel right.

Not disagreeing because it is a business but with some teams when the parents treat it the same as they are the CUSTOMERS and ask questions, want to try out for multiple teams, demand a product they paid for their kid some teams get an attitude like they want to astrocize a family or pin them as a trouble maker just for doing so

I agree with you 100%. This is the first year, as a family we are able to enjoy other warm weather activities we were forced to squeeze in during the lax season. It is unfortunate, many families have no other enjoyable/meaningful activities beyond their kid(s) lax program. Believe me, this year I don't miss leaving after work on Friday or early Saturday morning traveling out of state to stay in a hotel with a bunch of screaming out of control kids and intoxicated parents. Let alone going to a hot dusty lax field, eating a portion of a so called Italian hero prepared on incorrect Italian bread. But, next year it'll begin again.

Life is risk. The degree of risk from youth lacrosse tournaments barely registers. If you are afraid, feel free to remain locked in your closet for the next year.