BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!

My son is a summer birthday. He was young for his grade through 9th grade. He was a very good athlete in multiple sports, but both young and a late bloomer. He went from one of the biggest kids in his grade through middle school to basically average size by the end of 8th grade, but not even starting puberty. While still a very good athlete, older kids and early bloomers had a clear advantage on him which he had to deal with. After 9th grade, he transferred to private school and repeated. Despite repeating, he was nowhere near the oldest in his class and probably even a little below the average age (even for non-athletes). Most of these kids were held back in pre-school..... His school also played in a league were 20 year olds were permitted and not uncommon. So he still had to deal with older kids and early bloomers. By the end of sophomore year (post repeat) the early bloomers and older kids no longer had an advantage and he had grown into a very large athletic teenager. I would laugh when people on the summer circuit would say, "oh he repeated" when he was a sophomore. The kid simply grew into a huge athlete for any age who could run like the wind.. By the time he was a junior, you couldn't help but notice him in any varsity football or lacrosse game. At the start of his senior year he was committed to a top 10 lacrosse program and had D1 scholarship offers for football. Repeating had nothing to do with it. He ended up sticking with his lacrosse commitment and gained some notoriety along the way. And yes, when he went to college, almost all of the freshmen recruits were 19 year olds. In addition, numerous "seniors" / 5th years were 23. Never heard my son ever complain about having to play against older or more mature kids when he was younger - he actually played up when he could - I also never heard him complain about playing with or against kids who were 4 years older than him in high school or college. He actually repeated for academic reasons when he transferred after 9th grade and we (his parents) certainly didn't have him pegged as a D1 athlete in any sport at that time.

All this juggling for lacrosse? Whatever floats your boat...

Major issue in the sport and will continue to be

My son is a summer birthday. He was young for his grade through 9th grade. He was a very good athlete in multiple sports, but both young and a late bloomer. He went from one of the biggest kids in his grade through middle school to basically average size by the end of 8th grade, but not even starting puberty. While still a very good athlete, older kids and early bloomers had a clear advantage on him which he had to deal with. After 9th grade, he transferred to private school and repeated. Despite repeating, he was nowhere near the oldest in his class and probably even a little below the average age (even for non-athletes). Most of these kids were held back in pre-school..... His school also played in a league were 20 year olds were permitted and not uncommon. So he still had to deal with older kids and early bloomers. By the end of sophomore year (post repeat) the early bloomers and older kids no longer had an advantage and he had grown into a very large athletic teenager. I would laugh when people on the summer circuit would say, "oh he repeated" when he was a sophomore. The kid simply grew into a huge athlete for any age who could run like the wind.. By the time he was a junior, you couldn't help but notice him in any varsity football or lacrosse game. At the start of his senior year he was committed to a top 10 lacrosse program and had D1 scholarship offers for football. Repeating had nothing to do with it. He ended up sticking with his lacrosse commitment and gained some notoriety along the way. And yes, when he went to college, almost all of the freshmen recruits were 19 year olds. In addition, numerous "seniors" / 5th years were 23. Never heard my son ever complain about having to play against older or more mature kids when he was younger - he actually played up when he could - I also never heard him complain about playing with or against kids who were 4 years older than him in high school or college. He actually repeated for academic reasons when he transferred after 9th grade and we (his parents) certainly didn't have him pegged as a D1 athlete in any sport at that time.

This post is a joke. Your kid committed to a top 10 lacrosse program and had D1 scholarship offers? If true, than do you realize how special of an athlete your kid is? Do you really think his experiences were the same as every other kid? Using your kid's experience as evidence of how youth sports should be organized is kind of like pointing to a lottery winner and saying "look, this proves that buying lottery tickets is the best investment strategy for retirement." The large majority of kids (pre-HS aged) have no ability to "deal with", to use your words, older kids. If the owners of these clubs and tournaments (mostly the same people) opened their eyes and realized this simple concept, they would see their participation numbers and profits grow. There can always be AAA teams for the super athletes, as well as the ability to play up if that is the choice made by the family and the coaches. Everyone can have their cake and eat it too. The problem is that too many of the owners benefit financially by the winning done by their older holdbacks, and fear that when the playing field is evened in an age-based system, they will just become just another club. Again, if these stunads opened their eyes they would see that they could emulate hockey's Tier I system and utilize charters to limit entry and monopolize it just like they do now, only they will have more paying customers at Tier II, as more average athletes have a place to compete. Heck, they have it already with NLF.

My son is a summer birthday. He was young for his grade through 9th grade. He was a very good athlete in multiple sports, but both young and a late bloomer. He went from one of the biggest kids in his grade through middle school to basically average size by the end of 8th grade, but not even starting puberty. While still a very good athlete, older kids and early bloomers had a clear advantage on him which he had to deal with. After 9th grade, he transferred to private school and repeated. Despite repeating, he was nowhere near the oldest in his class and probably even a little below the average age (even for non-athletes). Most of these kids were held back in pre-school..... His school also played in a league were 20 year olds were permitted and not uncommon. So he still had to deal with older kids and early bloomers. By the end of sophomore year (post repeat) the early bloomers and older kids no longer had an advantage and he had grown into a very large athletic teenager. I would laugh when people on the summer circuit would say, "oh he repeated" when he was a sophomore. The kid simply grew into a huge athlete for any age who could run like the wind.. By the time he was a junior, you couldn't help but notice him in any varsity football or lacrosse game. At the start of his senior year he was committed to a top 10 lacrosse program and had D1 scholarship offers for football. Repeating had nothing to do with it. He ended up sticking with his lacrosse commitment and gained some notoriety along the way. And yes, when he went to college, almost all of the freshmen recruits were 19 year olds. In addition, numerous "seniors" / 5th years were 23. Never heard my son ever complain about having to play against older or more mature kids when he was younger - he actually played up when he could - I also never heard him complain about playing with or against kids who were 4 years older than him in high school or college. He actually repeated for academic reasons when he transferred after 9th grade and we (his parents) certainly didn't have him pegged as a D1 athlete in any sport at that time.

Does anyone look at the long term for the reclassed kids? Two I know of personally who were dominating studs have peaked. One is a sophomore who was a Freshman Phenom, the other is freshman at Top D1 program. Parents are short cited in their thinking. Give me the late developer any day of the week and he will have a longer “life span”

I dont know of any overall study. But many players in NCAA Div 1 are 19 entering their freshman year of lacrosse. Look at any NCAA lacrosse roster and many are littered with private school holdbacks. Guterding ( Private HS) of Duke had his 24th Birthday yesterday according to TV. That is a holdback age. Many MIAA players are 19 going into first year of college. I dont have an exact number, but if it holds true to my own interactions with MIAA players, its over 50%
Now there may be more that have fallen to wayside, but for many, it works.

It was actually his 23rd birthday according to the broadcast. You got that part wrong.

I know if I asked my 7th grader if he wanted to be left back for lacrosse, oops, i forgot, the politically correct phrase "hold-back" he would look at me as if I were crazy. Different strokes for different folks.

I, for one, have no problem with a family holding a kid back (or reclassing him if that is the proper word) so that he can be in whatever grade they want the kid to be in. It just should be true that in youth lacrosse, these kids should play vs kids their same age. So if I have a 2005 kid, I want him to play against 2005 kids (or use a Sept 1-Aug 30 year). I don't care if his opponents are in 7th grade, 9th grade, 5th grade, or no grade at all. With regard to school lacrosse (Middle School Teams, JV, Varsity), there is a fair amount of consistency within leagues, conferences, ect. My kids are suburban NY public school kids. There are very few extreme hold backs in the public schools. The extreme holdbacks are mostly at the prep school, catholic schools, ect. The publics and the privates largely don't compete against each other except for non-league games that are voluntarily scheduled.

I, for one, have no problem with a family holding a kid back (or reclassing him if that is the proper word) so that he can be in whatever grade they want the kid to be in. It just should be true that in youth lacrosse, these kids should play vs kids their same age. So if I have a 2005 kid, I want him to play against 2005 kids (or use a Sept 1-Aug 30 year). I don't care if his opponents are in 7th grade, 9th grade, 5th grade, or no grade at all. With regard to school lacrosse (Middle School Teams, JV, Varsity), there is a fair amount of consistency within leagues, conferences, ect. My kids are suburban NY public school kids. There are very few extreme hold backs in the public schools. The extreme holdbacks are mostly at the prep school, catholic schools, ect. The publics and the privates largely don't compete against each other except for non-league games that are voluntarily scheduled.

I, for one, have no problem with a family holding a kid back (or reclassing him if that is the proper word) so that he can be in whatever grade they want the kid to be in. It just should be true that in youth lacrosse, these kids should play vs kids their same age. So if I have a 2005 kid, I want him to play against 2005 kids (or use a Sept 1-Aug 30 year). I don't care if his opponents are in 7th grade, 9th grade, 5th grade, or no grade at all. With regard to school lacrosse (Middle School Teams, JV, Varsity), there is a fair amount of consistency within leagues, conferences, ect. My kids are suburban NY public school kids. There are very few extreme hold backs in the public schools. The extreme holdbacks are mostly at the prep school, catholic schools, ect. The publics and the privates largely don't compete against each other except for non-league games that are voluntarily scheduled.

It was actually his 23rd birthday according to the broadcast. You got that part wrong.

You may have no issue with it. I do, Ill paint this picture on the academic front; on age kid who is undersized, always played up, is a prospective D1 player at a few schools, as well as a top 10 student with 1300's SAT. Had not been for pre-1st hold backs, would have been a top 1, 2 or 3 student and this in a public NY school now is 15. So yeah, I think there is an issue, not just in sports. Why, because if "they" didnt hold their child back they would not have been a top 25 student if they were in their state intended/appropriate class/grade. Instead, they changed their child's "stars" which in turned impacted this student athlete!!!!

And you say, everything balances out in college. But no, it doesn't, how can it. Each recruiting class at a school has what, at most, 12 recruits. If you are a goalie, a Fogo, an LSM, or a Lefty Attack there are truly 20 coveted spots in your recruited year. Now, over half the top 10 school have recruits in any given position that is a Hold-back of some sort. Compound this over 4 years the needle has moved further away from the coaches wanting a true on age athlete.

It was best shown that, an athlete who works out at the same level at 23 as they did at 21 is in fact faster/stronger and both mentally/physically more mature at 23 than 21.

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Your reasoning why you dont like it is the reason people do it.

Have to say, that’s your problem, not the hold back parents. You want an even playing field, then hold back. Otherwise, since it’s filly within the rules, too bad.

If the spring Hs season is cxld? Does that mean all kids get another year of varsity? I ask, because I can see some reclass action.

You want little Johnny to be a Senior in HS again? Get a life!

If the kid had a chance to go to the nba, I’d say reclass him. With this sport, if it were my son, he would go to college, then get a job. The upside with this sport is limited to saving 12 grand a year in college, maybe working a lacrosse camp for 300 dollars a week. No thanks.