BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2019-2020 Women's DI, II & III College Lacrosse Season

TLTR but one thing I did notice is that you are wrong about the scholarship numbers. Colleges are only able to exceed 12 scholarships in this coming season. After that it goes back to 12 so the coaches will have to fit 4.5-5 classes into 12 scholarships for the 3 years after next. This will make recruiting classes smaller without question.

Yes, the scholarship cap returns to 12 the following year. But the # of roster spots is not capped Teams can still choose to support enlarged rosters of "5 classes:" freshmen, sophomores, juniors, seniors, and 5th year seniors. This will definitely happen next year because they have already signed HS 2020s, and it will probably happen again the following year with the already committed HS 2021s. But with the HS 2022s and HS 2023s, they could shrink the roster back down to its size by limiting their recruiting. Saving money would be the main reason for doing so. Although the U MD HC indicated in the US Lacrosse Magazine article that supporting large rosters has quite a few logistical problems as well.

You are also going to see college coaches have a frank discussion about the continuance of scholarship money for players that have not panned out. Will happen infrequently prior to their original 4 years but to all of them if they want to take their 5th year. Coaches are not going to give up all of their future money to bring in top talent for those that have not excelled to stay on board (unless they pay their own way).

That's the issue. The 21's have verbal offers. This was based on the current juniors being gone and that money freeing up. If the current juniors stay for an extra year that money has to come from somewhere that was already allocated.

You are correct.
HS 2020s keep their position and their scholarship money
HS 2021s keep their position but are risk of losing their scholarship money
HS 2022s-2023s. Their position and scholarship money are up in the air. But all signs point toward a downward direction.

You are assuming that the 21s received money. Not all did.

Only replying to the poster ahead who wrote. "That's the issue. The 21's have verbal offers. This was based on the current juniors being gone and that money freeing up. If the current juniors stay for an extra year that money has to come from somewhere that was already allocated."

No s*%#. Obviously i wasn't referring to 21s that didn't receive an offer of scholarship money. But for the majority of those that did, they are at risk of losing some of that money. This may cause girls to look around at other options.

Who cares , their options will be limited

I would care if a coach wanted to lower what my daughter was offered. I think many people would care.

My guess is after all the craziness passes. college tuition will reduce to reflect economic times and schools endowments will have shrunk dramatically.

The combination of these factors will not give a coach the luxury of having bigger budgets and expended rosters. For those wishing to play additional year it will likely migrate to the coach saying if you want to play the additional year thats fine but its on you financially. Also, there will be a big divergence in the schools who are programmed to win a national championship versus the reamonde who have no chance.

The National championship type schools will have a greater propensity to keep whoever is best and the rest will have more balance towards underclass and recruits with less 5th year players. I think the schools will operate based on their mission and reason for having a programs versus win at all costs. More 5th year players will trend towards the typical national championship contenders and less who have programs that are more geared with having programs to balance out their athletic offerings and student athlete profiles.

Anyone have a kid doing the extra year, with another staring college next year? Or Two kids currently in college where the senior was expected to graduate but is now staying? How will this affect the FAFSA? Should we expect to get more/less grant money for next year?

I had three in college at the same time... I didnt get a nickel from FAFSA.. if you can afford live on LI youre rich

I personally believe the extra year of eligibility should only be given to seniors. With that being said, these seniors need to stay at the current University if they want to continue playing. I understand this may be difficult if that particular University does not have a Masters program in your field of study. If that is the case then perhaps you need to get approval from the NCAA. Also, if the IVY League continues to not allow graduate students to play, then they can transfer. When you look at some of the names already in the transfer portal it makes you wonder will one or more of these highly touted super seniors miraculously appear at UNC next year. Allowing transfers to all will IMHO only make the best teams even better.

Also, the athletic money (not academic) these seniors received this year must continue into next year and NOT count against the fully funded (12) athletic scholarships for the remaining four years of girls (College class of 2021 thru 2023). This way once these super seniors leave at the end of 2021 the athletic scholarships are back to normal.

I know some may not see this as fair to the remaining underclassmen, but it is not fair to the HS girls either.

Does anyone think this is a fair idea?

Is this a joke? Who gives a darn if it’s fair in your eyes. Your fair benefits YOUR kid. The NCAA will make the decision, keep your one sided fair fantasy to yourself.

I think the NCAA has already decided this topic with regard to the extra year eligibility for spring athletes, so there is no much anyone can do now to change it.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources...ility-student-athletes-impacted-covid-19

The 2020s will not lose money on first year and the 2021s will be safe as all those verbal commitments were based on defined financial offers as well. No way in heck any coach would risk defaulting on those deals, they would not risk ruining their reputation. They can diminish other returning players scholarship and site under performance, and generated some scholarship money from that. Most of these coaches budget for increased scholarships in year 2-4. That’s really the only place to free up monies.

Hey BadPerson...my daughter is a Junior and I wrote this. She would not benefit from the guidelines I suggested above and to be honest most of the underclassman do not want another year. One sided fantasy? No it is actually a semi decent idea compared to all the whining from you typical butt on this forum. Let me guess, your daughter is an incoming freshman or perhaps even still a junior in HS. My plan actually helps that group at least athletic money wise. If she is as good as you think, she will be a starter right off the bat so you will be the big winner...if she is as good as you think she should be able to even beat out the super seniors. I was just trying to get a thoughtful discussion going, but as expected a typical butt answer...

Not so sure the 2021s are safe and will keep all of the scholarship money that the school's already offered them. The scholarship money was based on the assumption there were only 4 classes on the team and that next year's seniors were all going to leave. Unless i am mistaken, starting in 2022, the 12 scholarship limit (for women) returns and it will be spread out over 5 classes: freshmen, sophomores, juniors, seniors, and 5th year seniors. Unless coach's recruit 5th year seniors without giving them any money or they don't take any 5th year seniors that year, the scholarship money will have to be re-distributed.

US Lacrosse Magazine had an article that touched on this topic.

They interviewed Coach Galloway, Jacksonville's men's lacrosse HC and Coach Tillman, University of Maryland men's lacrosse HC.
Their comments imply that they could contemplatereshuffling the scholarship money for their teams in the future.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/colle...e-coaches-react-to-ncaa-d-i-council-vote

Galloway anticipated Jacksonville would retain about half of its eight seniors (other coaches have estimated to be in the 20- to 30-percent range) while having room to grow with potential transfers and the incoming freshman class. Looking to avoid a logjam, however, he said he likely would put a pause on recruiting next year’s high school seniors. The Dolphins currently have five verbal commitments from the class of 2021, according to Inside Lacrosse’s database.

“Next year is going to be the bigger issue, when you have a true five-class run,” Galloway said. “You’ve got to figure out your books on those guys.”

In addition to roster spots and playing time, student-athletes will have to consider their academic paths and the financial viability of a fifth year.

“You’re talking about having potentially two freshman classes,” Tillman said. “That’s something we would have to work through. I’m not sure that every family has budgeted for five years of lacrosse. We only have 12.6 scholarships that we divide up among our players. It’s very rare that someone is going to school for free. There are families that are going to have to make some decisions.”

Where can someone see names in transfer portal? Who are they? I saw a report a very good players from USC and UVA. I also heard a few Syracuse players, and a Dartmouth kid. Are there more surprises?

Moderator...thank you for cleaning up my language...I like substituting Badperson and Butt for my original wording. Thank you and I apologize.

I don't think the names of the athletes who enter the NCAA transfer portal is information that is publicly available.

Coaches are not allowed to lower scholarship amounts on current players. That was never allowed. The only place money can come from in 2 year is from the money promised to the 21s.

I thought athletic scholarships are ALL made on a year to year basis.
So wouldn't it be possible for a coach to reduce the amount to an existing scholarship player the following year?

Oh yes they are. It’s a year by year contract unless otherwise stated. It is allowed and it happens.

Just google it and you’ll see your mistaken. Most scholarships are yearly and renewed each year. College coaches can 100% lower a players scholarship from one year to the next.

Everybody has great arguments and different perspectives based on their daughter's position in all of this. Regarding this year's college seniors, what percentage do you actually think will play an additional year? Are seniors able to transfer to another school to seek a graduate degree? I'm thinking players that were seeking records, championships, MVP's, all-conference will be the ones that ponder the opportunity. Other than that, many have already taken jobs/careers etc.

It will all work out eventually. In life there are many roadblocks. Let's teach our daughters to compromise and adjust accordingly while maintaining the spirit of the game while focusing on the number one goal, a degree.

Schools are allowed to lower scholarships on current players. Happens quite often to players that do not play

Completely false, depends on the NLI you signed which generally depends on the conference . It some conferences you only sign an NLI that states the money is essentially from year to year and there are coaches out there who absolutely lower players scholarships based on performance.

Too funny the original popped up when I copied it . Don’t let the internet fake tough guy get to you . Your plan actually made the most sense and impacts the least amount of people . Was obvious you had a player in college and recognized that the senior year is a special year and also obvious you were not being a homer for only your kids needs . I bet most of the coaches would have preferred your plan to the NCAA plan.

We will see. There seem to be a lot of names of players (men and women) entering the transfer portal and few who have already decided to stay at their school and play another year.
The 5th year eligibility is transferable to other schools. All current players get the "red shirt." For next year only, the NCAA granted 5th year seniors "financial aid flexibility" to "grant seniors equal or less financial aid than what they would have received in 2019-20."

Coach Galloway estimated 50% for his Jacksonville men's lacrosse team are going to stay. Other coaches have estimated keeping their own players in the 20-30% range. These estimates don't include possible transfers. Ivy league, Patriot League, and D3 players will probably have to find a school to transfer to in order to take advantage of their 5th year eligibility.

Some people think that this year's seniors might be less likely to play another year because they have already made decisions concerning jobs and graduate schools and it may be already too late to change those decisions. But the next 3 senior classes obviously have more time to restructure their classes, graduate school, and job decisions to fit a 5th year. With an expected soft labor market for the next couple of years, staying another year in school (if feasible) and playing another year of lacrosse, might seem increasingly preferable. So it may not all be about seeking records, championships, MVP's, etc.

I thought the NCAA was to vote on players able to make money from there likeness and such in early April. I am sure they probably are glad this is pushed off, or did they vote.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources...ility-student-athletes-impacted-covid-19

They already voted. Every current NCAA spring sports athlete gets to play 4 seasons in 5 years. Next year's 5th year seniors do not count toward the 12 scholarships cap.

Not talking about eligibility. I am talking for players mainly basketball and football players to make a royalty or pay for their likeness? Like jersey, or camps they run with there name on it.

I thought vote was April for this topic.

It is becoming increasingly more clear that there will be many more seniors taking advantage of the 5th year than anyone thinks.

The reason is simply the economy; no new jobs for those looking and unfortunately loss of jobs for those already offered. Best option for most will be to go back to school and enhance your education with a graduate degree or other and play your 5th year.

We are already seeing this with seniors originally saying no but are no saying I am coming back for the economic reasons stated..........

I am glad they don't have to sit at home with no lacrosse and have this option to improve their educational marketability when things get back.

I am hearing the reverse as more and more schools are telling the seniors they have no money for them even schools with healthy endowments.

On a different note it seemed like on the women’s side of things at the college level NY and LI in particular were really dominating the scene . Seems like a disproportionate amount of the top players were from NY .

Very good point. Our daughter said the same thing. 2017 and 2019 classes are strong. It’s great to have some parody.

2017 is strong, your blind if you think the 2019s were strong. Two players at same school were doing very good in the 2019s.

Get over yourself . Can’t let a compliment go because you are so insecure .