BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020

Incoherent babble.

Northwestern also had 4 players on the lis.

Looks like the Top Programs get the majority of highly touted HS players. Many of those players see action (play in every contest/start) as freshmen and many of the reserves work their way into being starters/major contributors in subsequent years. Many become All-Americans, All-Conference, All-Region and few never develop to the point of getting regular playing time in every game.
It also appears that the vast majority do not stop playing.

Look at Maryland results from last year and get back to us Mr/Mrs Facts.

Hopefully this helpful... My experience and how it was explained to us by coaches during this process was that they grouped players in three tiers of 10-15 each. As first tier players committed, they moved second to first and third to second. If you have not been told where you stand and/or have not had semi-regular and/or no contact, you are in group 3 or not on their list. You can certainly wait and see what happens, but I would widen my net asap. If you have offers from schools on your list, make sure you are clear on their expectations on when they want an answer. Some will wait, but not forever. From the commitments I have seen on this site, inside lacrosse and what my daughter feeds me from social media, a large percentage of the top 40 on the Inside Lacrosse list are committed as well as a couple of dozen really good players not on the list (the list is just that, not the final say on a kid's talent). Teams are generally deep into their tier 1 and working tier 2 players at this juncture. If you still are not active with those top schools, again, widen your net.

How do you widen the net now? Do you tell a coach you are suddenly interested? This is a serious question.

Thank you. We will continue to hold out hope.

follow Yellow Jackets, M&D , Skywalkers, Steps etc on twitter.. they all post their commits..
and of course BOC & Inside Lacrosse..

Yes, I think you need to let them know you're interested.. reach out to all the coaches.. head coach, assistant coaches and tell them you want to attend school and play lax there.

- It is difficult to ascertain exactly what your point is but we must assume that you are implying that many "HS Under Armour All-Americans" will "never" see the field in college. Your statement is not accurate or true.

- You then use the word "fact" and state that "on the roster are 44 legit high school super stars and everybody's All-American". Your statement is not accurate or true.

- "Those girls on the bench I'm sure would thrive at most other top 25 schools but they chose to compete at the very highest talent pool." Since your basic premiss is not true even this statement suspect.

- "highest talent pool" I would agree with that.

- "10 girls on the field at a time." Your statement is not accurate or true. Unless I missed a rule change I am pretty sure 12 girls compete at a time.

I will assume that when you say "All American superstar" you a referring to HS Under Armour All-Americans since there are only 44 players selected per year. I would not consider players receiving other HS accolades and honors as "superstars" due to the fact that thousands of players are named all county/league/division/district etc... and four or five hundred are named US Lacrosse AA. Last year Maryland had 38 players on their roster 22 were Under Armor All-Americans.

I assume that you want us to believe that many Under Armour All Americans will "never" see the field in college. That simply is not true. Although many freshmen may not see much playing time the majority of the UAAA's do in fact work their way into the lineup.

Take a look at last years roster:

There were 10 seniors (2 were transfers) in addition there was 1 redshirt junior who obviously started her career with the seniors. All 9 of the freshmen class fall 2015 were on the roster in 2019 none stopped playing.

7 of the 9 original were Under Armour All-Americans. The two transfers were not Under Armour All-Americans.

* Mercer: .......was UA. saw limited playing time as freshman and sophomore then started every game junior and senior year. All-Big 10
* Golladay: ....reserve player.
* Giles: ..........was UA. played every game all 4 years multiple honors including 2X 1st team All-American.
* Douerty: ......was UA. Redshirt as freshman. Started past three years. One year left. All-Big 10 rookie team in 17'.
* Donoghue:...Saw limited time as a freshmen. Played in every game the past 3 years.
* Steel: ...........was UA. 4 year starter. Multiple honors including 2X All-American.
* Cummings: ..was UA. reserve player.
* Braig: ...........was UA. 4 year starter. multiple honors including 2X 1st team All-American and National Defender of the Year.
* Taylor: ..........was UA. 4 year starter. multiple honors including 3X All-American, Goaltender of the year, Player of the Year, Tewaaraton Award Winner etc...

6 of the 7 HS "superstars" became superstars in college.

The two transfers:

* Siverson: ...All-American
* Evans: .......All-American

As incoming freshmen that group might have been the strongest in Maryland history with 7 Under Armor All-Americans. Last years freshmen class had 4 Under Armor All-Americans. While it is true that not all HS "superstars" will see much playing time as freshmen it is misleading to state that many will "never" see the field. The large majority probably 85% or more of the "superstars" go on to have very successful college careers at the most competitive programs in the country.

Last year at Maryland was not the norm. They had an already incredible senior class and then they added 2 All-American Transfers so trying to crack the lineup as a freshmen was most likely more difficult than most years.

One point I will give is that it is much more difficult to get meaningful playing time as a freshmen at the top 10 programs.

I believe another myth that has been debunked is the myth that 50% of the players will quit.

I see nothing wrong with that. The coaches are doing the exact same thing. Players they told were second or third tier are going to get more attention, e-mails, phone calls and offers to come on an un-official/official visit. I would go back over your list and engage/re-engage to see where there is interest. I would re-assess all the contact received so far and engage. It is a numbers game, the more schools you contact, the more options you will have. It will also give you a more clear picture where you stand with each school. Knowing that is half the battle. It is also a time to reflect on what is most important with your daughter. The assessment criteria for selecting a school should include more than Lacrosse. If she absolutely wants to play no matter the school, there is a place for her somewhere. If school size, location, ranking and other criteria are very important, that will help focus your search. Most important is to stay positive, it will help your daughter be the same. Good luck, I hope she finds a great fit.

Excellent, encouraging and spot on... Thank you.

My point is that at a school like Maryland EVERY girl is extremely good and 90% came in highly decorated. Thanks for nitpicking. For arguments sake, 16 girls play regularly, maybe. My point is I'm taking nothing away from the talent level at the back end of a roster like UMD. They are all studs, only so many can be on the field. I was NOT saying that they fizzle out or were over rated in HS. Its a numbers game and schools like UMD, UNC etc are the best of the best and they collect talent. Thanks for your dissertation

As for your rebuke below; I stand by all my statements. Is there a single girl on the UMD roster that did not receive "All something" in HS?? I'd be surprised, but perhaps there is an outlier I missed.

"- It is difficult to ascertain exactly what your point is but we must assume that you are implying that many "HS Under Armour All-Americans" will "never" see the field in college. Your statement is not accurate or true. ---IT IS HIGHLY POSSIBLE

- You then use the word "fact" and state that "on the roster are 44 legit high school super stars and everybody's All-American". Your statement is not accurate or true.--IT IS TRUE

- "Those girls on the bench I'm sure would thrive at most other top 25 schools but they chose to compete at the very highest talent pool." Since your basic premiss is not true even this statement suspect. " --THEY WOULD

Thank you for clearing it up. Many people do however spew nonsense and make very inaccurate self serving statements all in an effort to tear players down or diminish accomplishments. I do not like it when adults try to elevate their daughter by trying to tear down or diminish others players. Most of the time it all sour grapes. My apologies to you.

I should add that when you send e-mails, send video and/or link to a recruiting page you created. It costs money, but consider getting to any fall and winter camps they offer. Send them your fall schedule when you have it.

Thank you for your apology. A meaningful dialogue between two people is rare on this board. My opening thesis should have been clearer. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to state it more clearly. Have a nice day, Lax fan from LI.

I also have questioned many coaches as to how they were going about their recruiting. Everyone seemed to have very different opinions and approaches. I am sure there is much to be learned this year as far as a what to do, and what not to do, in this new era of recruiting. This goes both for players and for coaches to apply to next year. But it seems every coach has different buying power depending on the lacrosse program history, coaches reputation, academic standing, facilities etc... and therefore must adjust their plan accordingly. Every player also has their own buying power depending on their playing ability, speed, field position, grades, financial backing, personality etc... and therefore must adjust their plan accordingly. Then once the coach and player feel they have a good match, the financial dance begins. The very top recruits make out extremely well, but coaches do like to spread the wealth out so every tier should get to benefit somewhat.

What does one consider “making out very well” vs “benefit somewhat”. Serious question

A few additional stream of consciousness comments / observations / opinions:
- by my count, approx 150 girls have committed so far, 100+ "top" girls, and 40-50 that clearly knew early where they wanted to go
- the other place to follow commits, not previously mentioned above is sportsrecruits.com/committed (have to sort through all sports)
- i've noticed not all clubs post on website / twitter, for ex. - Capital and Skywalkers seem hard to track?
- my daughter committed earlier this week, and it was a bit of a roller coaster! 35 - 40 schools contacted her on 9/1. Of the top 15 (her list) that we expected going in, 12 reached out, 3 disappeared surprisingly, 3 top schools reached out out of the blue, and then 25 or so reached out that were further down her list. based on this she was pretty honest with the coaches about where they were on her list, and most were pretty good about same. Only 2 schools played out much differently than we expected.
- if a school has you in one of their top groups, they don't need to see you play again, and if you've been there previously, you don't really need to go again either
- regarding expanding your net - I would have the club coach reach out to the schools, perhaps they previously thought / were led to believe your daughter was focused on higher end lacrosse / higher academic, whatever. it won't matter, if they are interested, they won't worry about the why.
- I believe there are still at least 40 - 50 girls with high end offers in hand deciding this week and next, so this seems like the top 30 schools will be actively filling their spots up until the Nov tournaments
- really interesting to see the handful of top programs / names that are either going really slow or not getting any of their top targets ... (names withheld to protect the innocent

PS - I thought the MD data was interesting!

I have seen a few general approaches as to offers. Some top schools offer a lower amount and they have a merit system where you can earn more with your play. I have seen schools offer escalating amounts where it increases over the four years. That is often used if the scholly money is tight for that class and/or the school is landing more top recruits than expected. This takes money from future classes. Setting expectations for any particular player and school is a shot in the dark. Top players will see 25-75% with a very rare number above that but it does happen For others it could be an admissions slot with no money up to 25%.

Huge congrats to your daughter! Sounds like the top 30 schools won't have any room left for girls on the 2nd tier and below?

Making out very well is getting an offer for full tuition or full ride offers. And yes they absolutely exist, despite the many who say they don’t . And benefit somewhat is the other end of the spectrum, I have heard of players taking spots with zero scholarship money, but feel that is uncommon. I do know many players in years past, filling some of the last roster spots in the 10-20% range as incoming freshman with room to improve based on performance , that would be benefiting somewhat.

You make the assumption the club coach will help. What if they don't? And far as camps/clinics - If the top 30 are filled so don't waste your time money there at this point?

Through my family's experience (realize others may have different experiences):

First of, a fully funded program has 12.6 scholarships available (not all programs are fully funded and Ivy's obviously work differently) that need to be spread across a full team/multiple grades. With that as perspective:


Top offers/top tier recruits: 50-75% of all expenses (tuition, books, room and board, etc.). 75% unusual b/c of spreading 12.6 full scholarships but not unheard of. Usually 1-2 kids per class in this bracket

Solid recruits/expect to contribute: 25-50%. Have seen this tier most typically offered 25-35%.

0-25%: Some money kid has potential but lower on the totem pole.

No money: like the kid, has some upside, willing to help them through admissions, but not offering them money. May have also been a late commit where money was already spoken for.

This is generally the framework the head of our club communicated to me as well. I realize others may have a different experience.

Correction to what I wrote above. A fully funded women's lacrosse program has 12 scholarships (NCAA limit) not 12.6 which is what the men have. So 12 scholarships to spread across a roster of typically 30-35 (some teams have larger rosters, some smaller). And not every kid gets a scholarship obviously.

Here is an example of how the 12 athletic grants in aid (scholarships) at a fully funded program could possibly be allocated:

Every school and situation is different but If the 12 are spit over four years each coach has 3 scholarships to offer the incoming class. (that is simplified and not always the case)

- Top tier players i.e. top 30 caliber players, the type of player that is getting multiple offers from Top 10 programs.
50% and above.

- All other players could get anything or nothing.

Here is an example: (But remember the coach can split it any way they want.) and this does not include merit based academic scholarship or need based aid.

Top Recruit = 75%

player 2 = 50%

player 3 = 50%

player 4 = 25%

Player 5 = 25%

player 6 = 25%

player 7 = 25%

player 8 = 25%

Player 9 = 0

Player 10 = 0

The coaches have at their disposal the dollar equivalent of "the total cost to attend the university" that includes Tuition, Room, Board, Books etc... multiplied by the number of scholarships the "institution" allows the program to have. "Fully Funded" programs are allowed 12 "athletic" scholarships. Not all programs are fully funded.

Lets assume the the total cost to attend is $50,000

12 x 50,000 = $600,000 that the coach can divide up at their disposal. There is no standard each coach can do as they see fit.

Merit based "academic scholarships" can be combined with "athletic scholarships".

Need based "aid" can not be combined with "Athletic scholarships".

Ivys do not offer "Athletic Scholarships". Either you pay full freight or you receive "need based financial aid" Go to the schools website and plug your numbers into the Aid Calculator they are pretty accurate.

Northwestern, Notre Dame, Boston College, Duke, Georgetown etc... Also have aggressive need based aid. In fact I have known people who gave up their athletic scholarship because they qualified for need based aid and the need based aid was greater than the athletic scholarship.

Maryland, North Carolina, Virginia, Michigan, Penn State, Stony Brook etc... Are Public Universities and in general offer less in terms of merit based aid or need based aid.

Many, Many factor go into the equation. Grades, test scores, athletic ability, need etc...

See below re: Combining Athletic and Academic aid.

NCAA requirements to combine academic and athletic scholarships

Does the NCAA let you combine academic and athletic scholarships? Yes, but you have to earn it in the classroom. While Division I athletic scholarships are relatively easy to qualify for — you need to graduate high school, complete 16 core courses and earn a GPA of 2.3 —the criteria are significantly higher for student-athletes looking to secure non-athletic financial aid. To accept an academic scholarship as an incoming freshman, student-athletes need to meet the following criteria:

Division I:

Top 10 percent of high school graduating class
3.5 cumulative GPA out of 4.0
1200 SAT score/105 ACT sum score
Division II:

Top 20 percent of high school graduating class
3.5 cumulative GPA out of 4.0
1140 SAT score/100 ACT sum score
By imposing these requirements, the NCAA is preventing schools from using academic scholarships as a loophole to get athletes to compete at their school These requirements ensure athletes who combine athletic and academic aid truly deserve it. For this reason, athletes with impressive academics are especially valuable to coaches. If a coach is evaluating you and a comparable athlete to fill a positional need, good grades and test scores can give you an edge. The coach will make an offer to the recruit with better academics almost every time.

Good luck to all.

Athletes with very high test scores and grades can receive a lot of Academic $$ if they drop down a bet in terms of Academic School: Duke or Hopkins may not give you academic money but many other schools will.
High caliber athletes (the ones being offered $$ at Maryland, UNC, Northwestern, BC etc) can drop down a bit and receive significant $$.

My grade schooler is interested in playing travel lacrosse in the Farmingdale area. We’ve never played before but she’s always been a top athlete in soccer and basketball. I heard the LI Yellow Jackets are the best club, but also that the owner Carol Rose is racist and perhaps even transgender too. Appears very possible based on internet pics of her (sorry but she looks like a dude) and the club (everyone looks alike). Also found Rose’s Twitter profile and saw that deplorably she’s an active supporter of the orange traitor in the White House. Not a character role model I want for my adopted immigrant daughter, but then it’s also clear that the Yellow Jackets are tremendously successful. I don’t think it’s right to fault the character of the entire club or the many other coaches without at least asking for honest feedback first. What’s been everyone’s experience?

No one respond to this, obviously just trying to incite or be funny.

How do the moderators let the same guy post the same message on 5 different threads?

you guys wanna clean this up..

( I can copy and paste too)

YJ's are the best although the double dipping by the owner by running all the tournaments the girls play in has always been shadey

You still pay to go to tournaments even if you clubs director had no stake in it, so what’s the difference. The only difference you should be concerned with is the college commitment list, compared to other clubs. Especially this year, staggering.

Look at the lists for the last 15 years...staggering every year.

But....how many Teewaraton winners did they produce with all those elite #1 players? Zero, that’s right , not one could step up to the top spot! Lots of but kissing going on at YJ, I’d rather keep it real on a club that actually cares about the girls. No matter how many YJ groupies come around to recruit my daughter, the answer will still be no, we don’t play for pretenders, and my daughters commitment is just as “staggering” as some pesky insect that nobody has any use for

SS was a YJ!

The reality is there are plenty of kids getting need based grants from a lot of schools, but they don't care to talk about it and like to lump it all in as "scholarship money". At the end of the day who really cares what it's called if you're getting scholarships/grants to a school that you wanted to attend its all good

You need a tissue?

Was windering. Why the sudden interest in who goes to Stanford. Maybe you want to gloat? You are obviously a 20 or 21 parent who lives through little suzy. Remember to keep the grades up when the playing time is down.

I feel sorry for you, I really do. Anyway, Shannon Smith was a YJ...

Maryland dad. Although I detest to admit it, all those YJ kids going to Stanford can play. I don't predict a lot of "when playing time is down" for them. Or the NJ or MD kid either.

Haha. My kid is at Stanford with a great new coach in great weather with great academics and your is not. Whether she plays or not, incredible envirnoment to go to school. You jealous hater.