BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls High School Lax

Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.

oh please tell more!

Watching WI go from State champs in class A to irrelevant in class B should tell you something about where the most competitive lacrosse is being played, also puts the few decent years they had before moving class into perspective.

First off Riverhead and Sinai have zero actual AA, that honorable mention stuff is essentially just a made up award , not recognized by US lacrosse . Second I have no problem with Bertolone chairing the AA committee as he knows the players as well as anyone. Third the failure of Riverhead as a team has little to do with the coach , its the parents and their attitudes that trickle down to the kids so the chemistry is horrendous, that and honestly the players are listening to the parents more the coach.

Coaching plays a huge role. That said, even a great coach will not win without a decent amount of talented athletes but a team filled with talent will not win with out a good coach. A bad coach will destroy the team. Stop with the parent BS.

You are just completely wrong ,she is a decent coach .The team has decent individual talent (not as good as they think) but the chemistry is a nightmare . That bad chemistry comes from the parents and if you think chemistry does not matter you are clueless.

Of course chemistry matters. Good coaches lead and they set the tone of the team. Parents are not at practice and they are not on the sideline during games. There are teams that have had a lot more talent than Riverhead and they have not been able to win because of poor coaching.

For example?

Seems to me every parent blames the coaches when a team loses as a way to deflect from the fact that maybe the talent level is just not as good as they think or some of the kids being relatively uncoachable .

Talent pool is way down especially with regard to high end talent. What programs had more top talent then they have had over the past 5 -6 years? GC, Manhassett, CHS, Wantagh, Massapequa, Syosset, Farmingdale, Mt Sinai, West Islip, Middle Country, Northport, Ward Melville, BBP, West Babylon, ESM etc.... Sorry, it is just not there. Some great players but no where near as many.

Not entirely true. There are some coaches that can win when they have the most talent, there are some that can not no matter how much talent they have. Some coaches can win even when they do not have the most (but have enough) talent. Some coaches are just not good. Out in the real world most of the coaches would be fired but they do not live in the real world. HS Lacrosse is a sport of the haves and the have-nots. Nassau has the Power Conference which is good but Suffolk is still a joke in terms of league competition. Thank god for the Club Teams.

In order to win a championship you must have adequate talent and at least good coaching. Great coaches will not win if they do not have adequate talent. Bad or even average coaches will not win even when they have the most talent.

Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.

Who were the All Americans and who was Rookie of the year?

It’s definitely a flawed process. If you don’t play for the “right” HS/club your chances of getting an award are diminished, regardless of talent level. It’s like this every year, some that get top awards absolutely deserve it, some are certainly more questionable. I don’t see change coming anytime soon. Stinks for the deserving kids whose coaches aren’t part of the Good Ole Boys/Girls club.

True that all the top clubs and Schools are well represented, deservingly so. But there is also a phenomenon of parents who have kids playing outside of this competitive grouping, who have over hyped views of their kids. Take any of the top kids from any of the top club teams, they look average on that team. Put them on a club you consider “the wrong club” and they look like gods gift to lacrosse. Same exact thing with “the wrong school” . In fact I would say the exact opposite of what you are saying is true, kids on “wrong teams” stand out alone and absolutely get recognition that a much more talented girl on a stacked team may never get because there are ten kids just as good.

Hmmm, im not sure about that, and correct me if I'm wrong but the teams with the most wins get the most awards. I don't know this years results but I assume Northport, ESM and BBP had the most All County / All League Awards as a team for their respective division. if you have a single really good player on a bottom rung team there is a good chance that that player will never be an All County Selection because her team doesn't win.

US Lacrosse AA selection is the worst. All-County (your coach picks) not political except within your HS. All-County is more socialistic and hurts strong players from programs with a lot of talent. Very good players from teams with a lot of depth do not make it. Good players from weak programs make it even if they are not as strong as many players from programs with a lot of depth who do not make it. Honorable mention AA & and AC were created to give deserving players something because they were not receiving awards due to the situation explained above. All Division/League again is up to your coach and is political within your district. All Long Island is selected by Newsday and is better than the US Lacrosse AA because they select more players and the coaches are not involved so although they can lobby Newsday if they want they can not cut deals behind closed doors. Under Armour is primarily selected by Inside Lacrosse and for the most part follows the IL Player Rankings. UA appears to be based on a body of work on the club circuit over a few years. UA at least watches the top club teams (which have the top players) compete against each other which gives a better indication than watching a non competitive HS game.

Congratulations to all of the players who receive accolades. For the strong players that were overlooked let it motivate them. Go prove everybody wrong.

BTW, I do not have a better solution. There are way too many teams, there is way too much deviation of talent from team to team, there are not enough competitive teams etc... I think most of the people involved do the best they can although I am sure there are some bad apples in the bunch.

Once again, congratulations to all who were honored.

You really are clueless, Nassau power conference is easier than playing Division 2 in Suffolk and has been for some time. Your "power conference " team that took 4th overall lost to the team that took 20th in D2 suffolk , there are alot more examples but that is the most glaring. The power rankings within the divisions, especially D2 have made for much more competitive schedules

You are right about the stronger teams getting more Year End Awards but All County has.to be voted upon by the coaches. The All Conference / All League awards are just handed out by the team based on how many slots they have which is calculated by your teams record. So no coaches vote for players who receive all conference, all a division, etc.

As for All American, you must be All County the previous year and then the selection committee must vote on the players nominated so if you dont meet the threshold, you would then get Honorable Mention All American or potentially nothing depending on the number of votes or lack thereof. This is extremely challenging to get and the highest recognition as it is not always for each position...they can vote for 12 players and It could be 1 defender, 6 attackers, 3 Goalies & 2 midfielders as it goes to the best players in that section/state (i.e. Section 8 NY, Section 11 NY). And just like the MVP in the NBA or the NFL, the team has to be good which is why you see the perennial power programs with more AA selections but they will give it to a player not on a good team is deemed worthy. Just look at the past selections.

All Long Island by Newsday is typically for the players that perform the best in the playoffs in front of Newdsay with the other obvious players they know are unanimous AA so it doesn't necessarily show the 'top' players/top player on a team. Still a nice achievement.

I liked the BOTC All Long island Teams as they had all of the 2019 HS All Amerigans on there which just came out today and so they certainly got it right and with players from all over named on their individual success for the season and careers. It resembled the NCAA All Americans with the 1st, 2nd & 3rd Team and Honorable Mention by each position..

Either way, nothing is going to be perfect and it's nice to see players getting recognized by multiple platforms

Conversely, an OK kid on a top team may look better than they actually are. They may be benefiting from the really good players on their team. Take them off a top team and they put them on a lower team with little to no support and they might not be able to hold their own let alone carry a team.

Gibberish, How is US lacrosse AA the worst , its no longer picked by a committee but I believe every coach gets a vote . No my kid is not an AA but I am not bitter about it as its an anonymous vote so all the back channel deals are useless at this point. The honorable mention stuff is a joke ,they are made up awards so everyone gets a trophy. The all-county awards are the most political of any and the kids that have parents that kiss the coaches butt in some districts get the award while you have coaches trading awards with other coaches etc.
The BOC all long island teams seem to have gotten the correct players but maybe not the correct kids on teams ,example is 2x AA still on U19 and team 2 , a few others also.( just my opinion)

BOTC did not get it right. They did not include all of the All Americans and the underclass AA from last year. Kids who were at the top of their game and carrying teams through playoffs were left off this list. Where is their info coming from? Yes, stronger clubs and coaches who speak out get their girls recognized more. You need talent but coaching makes a big difference.

First off , maybe they disagree w the picks for AA and there is no such thing as “under class AA”. Tell me what school had a kid carrying he team thru the playoffs that was left off the list . There are only so many spots , the Honorable mention AA thing is ridiculous .

Thoughts on Under Armour tryouts yesterday?

they really need to come up with a better way to have evaluators that are not partial.

same as last year...
scrimmage,
take advantage of your opportunities,
hope someone passes you the ball,
It was a beautiful day

Since most YJA are already committed, it will be all YJB girls.

Why are you such a troll. Your comment just shows a complete lack of knowledge or a purposeful attempt at being ignorant.

Long Island names players US Lacrosse All American Honorable Mention?? That's funny. Hint - it's a made up award when the All Americans are listed on the US Lacrosse website and there's nothing to be found about Honorable Mentions.

People can troll and or stir the pot all that they want but the Under Armour Underclass tournament is the most competitive HS event there is. There are some (not many) very good players from LI that will not make it but every player that does make one of the two teams is legit. Go bash something else, UA is an incredible event and although the tryouts are not perfect UA does a fantastic job at selecting the teams. Yes, my older daughter made the Long Island Team and played in the tournament and it was the most competitive HS lacrosse that she ever played in. Haters are going to hate but in our experience the selection process is fair and the results validated the process (Yes the girls won). IMHO there were another 5 - 10 girls that could have been selected but not much more than that. Under Armour should consider two team from Long Island, one Nassau and one Suffolk. Each team would be a little less competitive but there would be less chance of leaving any of the top players out.

Why are there only 18 girls on the LI Highlight team?

They screwed up and left kids off the roster, check back later for the full roster. I was told if you were a walk up registration and made the team somehow you did not get listed although you still received the email that you were selected.

It’s seems the younger team is all Suffolk county???? Not one girl from GC or Manhasset. What is the world coming to??? Lol. #631represent

funny story

There are 8 US Lacrosse AA's. The other 20+ kids received a made up coaches award not recognized by US Lacrosse. Those kids are considered the best All County players in Suffolk. Coaches should have used a different name for the award - something like 1st and 2nd Team Suffolk County. Do not use the term AA at all because it is very misleading. Why is an additional award needed at all. You are All County or you are AA - enough with the "everyone gets a medal" mentality.

I agree, call it something else. Now there are players claiming to be US Lacrosse AA when they are not.

What does everyone think about the call-back Under Armour Academy? Is it a money grab or worth it? Does it interfere with fall sport playoffs?

Honorable Mention All American is a legit recognition/award. Not All players nominated receive it and the board has to vote for the players. Additionally, you have to have earned All County the year prior - an award typically for the next best players although some schools who are good certainly get more but that's just the nature of the beast.

So for anyone to say HM All American is not real has no clue what they are talking about. IDK who got it for the girls in Suffolk but only 6 boys in Nassau earned this award and look at that list - the 9 boys lacrosse Nassau County All Americans plus the 6 honorable mention all American players are all legit players who are D1 prospects and have the stars to back it up. The sheer fact that only 15 players received those awards prove how difficult it is to get. I know the 8 Suffolk County Girls Lacrosse All Americans are ALL phenomenal players. You must be a parent of someone who did not receive it....and with that said, of course there are players you can lobby for that you think deserved it but that's just like every other sport (i.e. Klay Thompson not getting 3rd Team All NBA....should he have gotten it, maybe but everyone in front of him were all legit)

US lacrosse doesn't host the players on their site but they give you the official certificate just like the All Americans get.

With other media publications, it will be nice to see who gets what and how close they are . The BOTC All Long island tesms (1st -3rd team) also had 7/8 Suffolk County All Americans listed & I know 3 Nassau County All Americans on their list as I did not see all of the girls in Nassau who got it. So them & USA Today had a handful of the Suffolk AA's as the top 25 players in the Country. Seems legit to me unles you think they are all in cahoots with each other..

Total money grab. Save your money!

If there are players listing themselves as US lacrosse honorable mention AA then they are lying and it could create problems , its the same as lying on a resume. I would think that US lacrosse may end up having something to say about it.