BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

Hi guys. Looking forward to playing the cheater teams. The boys have been playing top 2023 teams up here on LI, to get ready for your older boys. You know, 2023 age kids on LI are 2024 age kids in MD. I think that’s a pretty good plan. What do you guys think? Not sure though. Maybe we should be playing older boys in 2022. I know you guys say that double holdbacks are rare, but I’m not sure what that means. Maybe you can help me. Does “rare” mean one double holdback per team? Or two, or three? I really don’t know. Appreciate your help from ya all. See you soon!

Man I can’t wait to watch the WP parents faces when their team gets crushed at Naptown! Didn’t win last year, can’t even get to the semis at NLF but have fun at WSYL in early July bc it’s going to be a short lived celebration when you get a reality check in Annapolis! Don’t worry, I’m sure all the coaches recruiting down the road will ask how you all did at WSYL 5 years ago....stunands!

And I'm sure you'll be bragging to all the folks at the Walmart you work at that your 14 and 15 year old team beat some 12 & 13 year old kids. Remember to tell little Cletus or Jim Bob to go to the net every time and then give a high five to Aunt Mama!

Man I can’t wait to watch the WP parents faces when their team gets crushed at Naptown! Didn’t win last year, can’t even get to the semis at NLF but have fun at WSYL in early July bc it’s going to be a short lived celebration when you get a reality check in Annapolis! Don’t worry, I’m sure all the coaches recruiting down the road will ask how you all did at WSYL 5 years ago....stunands!

Quick question for you cheater dads. What would do you think would happen if your kids ever played a lacrosse game against children their own age? Would they pee their pants, or maybe you would. Honestly, I don't know who is the bigger lost, you, for having absolutely no confidence in your child to even play with children his own age, or your son for agreeing to it. That's a tough one, but I'm going to go with... YOU. Funny, because for years I had my kid play up. To tell you the truth, I never even considered my son playing down! I didn't even know that existed until I went to MD and found out that's what 80%+ of the kids do there. You folks are really messed up, you know that? Must be all that inbreeding that ya'all do.

I have a 12/30/2005 7th-grade son playing on a 2024 team. He played up on 2023 for three years since our club didn't have enough to field a 2024 team. This year is different, we had enough players to field a 2024. He was asked to play on 2024, so he went from the youngest to the oldest on his team, 3/4 are summer 06. The grade-based deal, well, it's just how it's done in MD. Not cheating if it's within the cutoffs. But my son has definitely experienced playing against boys that were likely 2-3 years older. This was most frustrating last year as a 6th grader on a 7th grade team playing against men. When we played in tourneys in LI, I will admit things felt more balanced.

My only objection is the reference to inbreeding, it ain't MD, it's WV.

~ 91 Wolfpack - The "Class of 2024 Lacrosse" ~


... just raised the bar... AGAIN...


... and the cheater teams worst nightmare...


Coming to a tourney near you soon...


https://www.instagram.com/91lacrosse/p/BwGIN87BHiU/

Man I can’t wait to watch the WP parents faces when their team gets crushed at Naptown! Didn’t win last year, can’t even get to the semis at NLF but have fun at WSYL in early July bc it’s going to be a short lived celebration when you get a reality check in Annapolis! Don’t worry, I’m sure all the coaches recruiting down the road will ask how you all did at WSYL 5 years ago....stunands!

I have a 12/30/2005 7th-grade son playing on a 2024 team. He played up on 2023 for three years since our club didn't have enough to field a 2024 team. This year is different, we had enough players to field a 2024. He was asked to play on 2024, so he went from the youngest to the oldest on his team, 3/4 are summer 06. The grade-based deal, well, it's just how it's done in MD. Not cheating if it's within the cutoffs. But my son has definitely experienced playing against boys that were likely 2-3 years older. This was most frustrating last year as a 6th grader on a 7th grade team playing against men. When we played in tourneys in LI, I will admit things felt more balanced.

My only objection is the reference to inbreeding, it ain't MD, it's WV.

The organization/team that your boy plays for is not an elite team or organization, if they didn't have enough players to field a team at the 2024 level. That's why you have 3/4's of your team as summer 06 birthdays. By MD standards, your son is on a B team. If he was on an elite team, the 80% rule would apply (80% holdbacks). By contrast, LI elite teams have 3/4's of their team with summer 06 birthdays, or even later. Sometimes much later. I wish you and your son nothing but the best, having to deal with that corrupt culture in MD. It's so ingrained, people like you take it for granted, and think it's OK. But it really isn't OK. It's screwing people like you and your son, and you don't even realize it. Good luck.

Along with the Wambulance on the way to LI (stuck in traffic, shocking I know) I asked them to pick up a "Fake News" consultant so you can better craft your completely false "80% rule" narrative to give it more impact. By all means continue to push the MD 14/15 yo vs the LI 11/12 year old story if it gives you some rest at night, and please know it has a truly meaningful impact.

Along with the Wambulance on the way to LI (stuck in traffic, shocking I know) I asked them to pick up a "Fake News" consultant so you can better craft your completely false "80% rule" narrative to give it more impact. By all means continue to push the MD 14/15 yo vs the LI 11/12 year old story if it gives you some rest at night, and please know it has a truly meaningful impact.

Quick question for you cheater dads. What would do you think would happen if your kids ever played a lacrosse game against children their own age? Would they pee their pants, or maybe you would. Honestly, I don't know who is the bigger lost, you, for having absolutely no confidence in your child to even play with children his own age, or your son for agreeing to it. That's a tough one, but I'm going to go with... YOU. Funny, because for years I had my kid play up. To tell you the truth, I never even considered my son playing down! I didn't even know that existed until I went to MD and found out that's what 80%+ of the kids do there. You folks are really messed up, you know that? Must be all that inbreeding that ya'all do.

Quick question for you cheater dads. What would do you think would happen if your kids ever played a lacrosse game against children their own age? Would they pee their pants, or maybe you would. Honestly, I don't know who is the bigger lost, you, for having absolutely no confidence in your child to even play with children his own age, or your son for agreeing to it. That's a tough one, but I'm going to go with... YOU. Funny, because for years I had my kid play up. To tell you the truth, I never even considered my son playing down! I didn't even know that existed until I went to MD and found out that's what 80%+ of the kids do there. You folks are really messed up, you know that? Must be all that inbreeding that ya'all do.

Really? Let's take our good friends from Madlax DC as an example, since you are most likely a holdback parent from Madlax. From my experience, all of the true db parents (yes, there is an occasional exception to this rule) are from ML-DC. Madax has two 2024 teams of approximately 30 players each. That's 60 total players. Of that, they don't have 15 kids (7 players per team) to form a team to compete for a 13U world tournament. That's proof-positive that over 75% of the team is holdbacks. How much more? Well, based on this very MD thread, elite teams have on average 3 on age players per team. Since our example is Madlax DC, where basically every player goes to private school and starts Kindergarten at 6 years old, instead of 5 years old like the rest of the world, Madlax is between 80% and 95% holdbacks. There are no more dirty little secrets anymore in club lacrosse. The secret is out and has been out for quite some time now. And, since we are talking about Madlax DC, how old is your new holdback-player-giant that replaced your old holdback-player-giant, who finally went back to playing kids his own age (now there's a novel concept!). You know, the kid that played for the DC Dogs 2023 team for the past several seasons. Since he's from DC, he's prob a holdback from the get-go, like the rest of the DC players, right? And, since he was a 2023 last year and is now a 2024 player, he's obviously a reclass too. What's that make your 6' 170 lb 7th grader? 15 or going on 15? 7th grade lacrosse games must really be important to you, for your teams to go to all of this trouble, just to try and stay competitive with far superior LI teams. Must really stink for your parents when your 14 and 15 year olds lose to our 12 and 13 year olds. Yeah, I guess that would be pretty embarrassing. Cheating your butt's off, and still losing.

The organization/team that your boy plays for is not an elite team or organization, if they didn't have enough players to field a team at the 2024 level. That's why you have 3/4's of your team as summer 06 birthdays. By MD standards, your son is on a B team. If he was on an elite team, the 80% rule would apply (80% holdbacks). By contrast, LI elite teams have 3/4's of their team with summer 06 birthdays, or even later. Sometimes much later. I wish you and your son nothing but the best, having to deal with that corrupt culture in MD. It's so ingrained, people like you take it for granted, and think it's OK. But it really isn't OK. It's screwing people like you and your son, and you don't even realize it. Good luck.

Almost everything said in this post is factually incorrect or a false assumption/inference so well done with that. The most amusing thing is that a LI parent would have the temerity to call out parents from another team. LI parents are by far the worst lacrosse parents around, one day at a lacrosse tournament where LI teams are involved is all anyone needs to see that. A simple read through the LI Board is also a good proxy for this. If it comes down to parents of kids with a summer birthday who choose to "hold them back" before going into K (by the way plenty of studies show this is beneficial for the kids on many levels) vs. parents who psychotically (and cowardly) scream "see you in Denver" at 13 yo kids who are a couple of feet away walking back to their tent, I personally will take the "holdback" parents every day.







Great response, Madlax parent.

You didn't have a single rational rebuttal against any of the hold back accusations (because there OBVIOUSLY aren't any), except to once again claim "summer birthdays".

It's very interesting that once all of the cheater teams have been factually outed, and the lies come to an end, the holdback dads all (OK, it's all actually just one one Madlax guy) claim that every holdback on their team (i.e. every kid on their team) mysteriously has a "summer birthday", of which most are the end of August, which strangely enough coincides almost to the day with the WSYL 9/1 cutoff date, which is the event/date that actually outed all of the cheater teams.

Now, they all just missed that deadline and entire teams strangely have 8/31/05 birthdays. Wow, amazing how 30 kids on about 10 teams have birthdays on 8/31/05!! Obviously, more lies from the cheater holdback parents, but I must say, very much anticipated as well as amusing!!

CHEAT-ON... HOLDBACK PARENTS!!

Easy big Girl , I think you have had one too many Red Solo Cups !! Please dont drive that iroc Z , Red Solo Cups and Iroc Z's are not meant to be together !

OK, did not want to go through the tedium of rebutting the "fake facts" since the reality is that none of them but one can be actually verified by anyone on an anonymous board. I will attempt to since I am eating my lunch and it amuses me so. I am glad you used the word accusations because that is what they are, not facts, simply assumptions.

The one fact that can somewhat be verified is that there are not 30 kids on the top Madlax team, there are 26 listed on the website and the roster is actually a bit smaller than that so basically the initial fact is wrong and relatively verifiable.

The 80% number is very wrong as well but since no one on this board can verify either way not worth going into other than to say our family actually plays in MD and knows the ages of kids way better than anyone in LI does.

I guess my real question for you is why the obsession with holdbacks. I don't think anyone on this board has said there are not holdbacks on these teams.
The reality is that these decisions, for the most part, are made when a child is 4/5 years old (yes the vast majority of them are summer birthdays) and I am guessing in 99.9% of the cases not once did lacrosse come up as a reason for doing it. The actual and very understandable reasons for this have been discussed ad nauseam so I will not go into it. As the parent of an "on age" elite player I actually have no issue with these "holdbacks". In addition the parents do not set the rules for the league, age/grade based. I actually do not mind the grade based teams as kids get to play with other kids they are in the same grade with, not the worst thing in the world. I know you will now say, but what about the double holdbacks. Does this happen, yup. Am I fan of it, nope. Is the issue so large that I lose sleep over it, nope. I think there is a misguided belief in LI that all the kids on elite teams are double holdbacks, this is simply not true. Reality is the age gap (which is what we are really talking about) is much less than what LI people think or complain about on this Board. Once again my belief versus someone elses, believe what you want.

Finally, as I am finishing my sandwich, the word "cheater" gets thrown around a lot on the board, can you please give me the definition of cheating. I am not aware of any MD teams trying to sneak into the WSYL on fake birth certificates, from what I know they only play in tournaments and games where they are eligible to compete. By the way there is actually a very simple solution to this, don't play in grade based tournaments if it is so unjust. I don't think anyone in MD would care at all if LI didn't show up because at the end of the day this is 7th grade lacrosse, who really cares as long as the kids are having fun.

OK, did not want to go through the tedium of rebutting the "fake facts" since the reality is that none of them but one can be actually verified by anyone on an anonymous board. I will attempt to since I am eating my lunch and it amuses me so. I am glad you used the word accusations because that is what they are, not facts, simply assumptions.

The one fact that can somewhat be verified is that there are not 30 kids on the top Madlax team, there are 26 listed on the website and the roster is actually a bit smaller than that so basically the initial fact is wrong and relatively verifiable.

The 80% number is very wrong as well but since no one on this board can verify either way not worth going into other than to say our family actually plays in MD and knows the ages of kids way better than anyone in LI does.

I guess my real question for you is why the obsession with holdbacks. I don't think anyone on this board has said there are not holdbacks on these teams.
The reality is that these decisions, for the most part, are made when a child is 4/5 years old (yes the vast majority of them are summer birthdays) and I am guessing in 99.9% of the cases not once did lacrosse come up as a reason for doing it. The actual and very understandable reasons for this have been discussed ad nauseam so I will not go into it. As the parent of an "on age" elite player I actually have no issue with these "holdbacks". In addition the parents do not set the rules for the league, age/grade based. I actually do not mind the grade based teams as kids get to play with other kids they are in the same grade with, not the worst thing in the world. I know you will now say, but what about the double holdbacks. Does this happen, yup. Am I fan of it, nope. Is the issue so large that I lose sleep over it, nope. I think there is a misguided belief in LI that all the kids on elite teams are double holdbacks, this is simply not true. Reality is the age gap (which is what we are really talking about) is much less than what LI people think or complain about on this Board. Once again my belief versus someone elses, believe what you want.

Finally, as I am finishing my sandwich, the word "cheater" gets thrown around a lot on the board, can you please give me the definition of cheating. I am not aware of any MD teams trying to sneak into the WSYL on fake birth certificates, from what I know they only play in tournaments and games where they are eligible to compete. By the way there is actually a very simple solution to this, don't play in grade based tournaments if it is so unjust. I don't think anyone in MD would care at all if LI didn't show up because at the end of the day this is 7th grade lacrosse, who really cares as long as the kids are having fun.

Congratulations 91 Wolfpack. #1 World Ranking. Well done boys. Best on the planet.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/arti...inside-lacrosse-13u-world-rankings/54271

Bunch of on age kids.. just isnt fair !

Congratulations 91 Wolfpack. #1 World Ranking. Well done boys. Best on the planet.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/arti...inside-lacrosse-13u-world-rankings/54271

I love starting my day off with a good laugh at sorry people who live to post about U13 world rankings! Get a life and stop wishing you were your kid.

I know right, must be hard for you to swallow your crab cake ..LMAO

Based on everything I read on BOTC every state except NY has holdbacks? Wait, I’m pretty sure I did read “other” LI posts saying LIE are cheaters too with holdbacks. Man, that must mean there are really only two clubs in the USA that don’t have holdbacks. You guys should be proud and I wish you the best at the WSYL bc after that it’s all a bunch of excuses and you guys against the rest of the lax world! Except moving forward your boys will be playing by club rules like the rest of the country and then we will see how great your teams really are!

Bro. Check out the scores. Pack is crushing teams that are either beating all of the MD cheater teams, or giving them everything they can handle. Beat Legacy Taz 9-2. Limited all North region qualifiers to a maximum of 2 goals, without a single competitive game. Pack is undefeated so far, and they have played mostly better ‘23 teams, so playing up against the MD cheaters is not a problem. So prepare your 14 year old son for a beat down, Long Island 12/13 year old style. Because the Pack is looking for statement games, against the cheater teams.

"statement games" at the 2024 level, hahahahaha, that someone would even write something like that is so sad. Might feel sorry for someone who is this caught up in a youth sport but the LI posters on this board are so pathetic hard to conjure up any level of empathy.

Serious question to all of the MD holdback parents: Why do you have your kids play down a year? Do they have a confidence problem, where they feel inferior to kids their own age? Or, without their size advantage, they really just compete with kids their own age? Maybe it's both? Very sad.

I would say one of the more difficult things for some kids , especially undersized kids, is making a AA team when most coaches are taking size over skill in 7th or 8th grade . a smaller boy may have superior speed, superior stick skills but lack size. its very unfortunate. so a boy that plays down, may be just positioning himself for the future as he has been pushed out of his own grade

I would say one of the more difficult things for some kids , especially undersized kids, is making a AA team when most coaches are taking size over skill in 7th or 8th grade . a smaller boy may have superior speed, superior stick skills but lack size. its very unfortunate. so a boy that plays down, may be just positioning himself for the future as he has been pushed out of his own grade

Serious question to all of the MD holdback parents: Why do you have your kids play down a year? Do they have a confidence problem, where they feel inferior to kids their own age? Or, without their size advantage, they really just compete with kids their own age? Maybe it's both? Very sad.