BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

Best post I’ve ever read on any forum in BOTC!w9RVz

The 2023 Madlax holdback dad still bragging about beating a depleted 2024 Taz team. What was the score? Win by a few measley goals? Dude, that’s an embarrassment. Your team is flat out a year older than Taz, except for your 2023 DCDogs player who is two years older. Only Madlax cowards could brag about what any other team would be ashamed of. That’s why you don’t hear from any other MD parent on this board, except for the one Madlax holdback classless cheater dad. Not a single one. Ever. Because anyone with more than a 12 year old brain knows that if your team is a year+ older than another team, you should beat that team. If if you’re a good team, it shouldn’t even be close. At all. But it always is. And your Madlax team played a team that lost multiple key players. But they still go toe to toe with the Madlax 2023 cheaters. Just yet another testament of how much better LI lacrosse is, than MD. MD has to play with year older players just to be competitive. Keep stockpiling your holdbacks, just to be able to compete with us. And we’ll keep playing 2024 lacrosse with our 2024-age kids, because when all your holdbacks lose their size advantage in the coming years, it will be like taking the ankle weights off our kids. Their superior skill and IQ will combine with superior size and strength, and the D1 coaches will be flocking to LI, just like they always do. Long Island Strong!

Here are the facts about Madlax DC. They are based in DC. All of their players are from DC. DC public schools are poor. All players go to DC private schools, as a result. DC private schools start kindergarteners at age 6, not age 5, like basically all other schools. So, from the get go, Madlax players are automatically one year older. 8th grade is typically when the reclass starts, although it can start earlier. This is when the double holdbacks begin, although they have to be cognizant ofbtheir birthday,, so they don’t age out senior year in HS. But still very doable for many, many players. There you have it. While all top MD teams are predominately holdbacks, 80% is a very real average, DC teams like Madlax capital have a very unique situation, where upwards of 95% of the team are holdbacks. Now, personally I have no problem with my kids LI team playing up a year, for the experience because it’s just going to make he and his teammates better players. It does make me wonder, though. Why aren’t the MD teams better? Especially Madlax DC? These games shouldn’t even be competitive. But they always are. Think about it. If one of the top 2024 LI teams played a top 2025 team? , What would the outcome be?? It would be a total blowout. But, of.course, a top 2024 LI team would never play down. Never. If anything, our teams play up. MD teams do the opposite. They never play up and always play down. It makes absolutely no sense. We spend boat loads of money on club lacrosse to develop our children for someday when it actually matters. But again the MD and DC teams don’t do that. They horde holdbacks to “win now”. But “now” doesn’t matter. Nobody cares who wins a lacrosse game when you were in the 6th or 7th grade. Absolutely nothing in MD club lacrosse makes any sense. In the end, one thing is clear. The true 2024’s that competed against the 2023 holdback teams will be the true benefactors.

Some points on the discussion above. I posted some of these comments on the MD thread a couple of weeks ago. I have fairly decent knowledge of the MD 2024 scene. I am not trying to be difficult here but trying to frame the debate with some facts as I know them. The cutoff date for age based is 9/1/2005. This means on average by the beginning of March the average age of 2024 kids is 13, not 12. Of course if your team has more summer 2006 birthdays the average will be 12+, but in that case even an "on age" team could be 6-9 months older if it had more fall birthdays. The vast majority of the MD "holdbacks" I have encountered have summer 2005 birthdays, the reasons for this have been talked about a fair amount (private vs. public focus, etc.). That being said not every kid who starts private school starts at age 6 thereby making every MD 2024 a year older. The best lacrosse in MD is played at the private schools (and these tend to also be better academic choices in the area) but a large number of the kids start in public schools before they go private.

Now let's assume every kid on a team was born in June 2005 (which is a stretch as I know for a "fact" that the teams talked about here have "on age" players because it wasn't that long ago MD was age based as well and these kids continue to play together or are on other 2024 teams) then by March, on average, the difference would be 9 months as opposed to the 1 to 2 years talked about a lot on this board. Of course talking in averages does not take into account outliers but since none of the LI or MD clubs post birth dates or birth certificates no one here really knows exact age or birthday. We can make some assumptions pre/post 9/1 but I also know for a fact that some of the assumptions made on these boards are wrong, such as Madlax 2024 is 100%/95% holdback team. This is a completely false statement.

On the “double holdback” issue if a summer 2005 birthday was playing “on age” or up (because of the grade they were in) at 2023 and then plays on grade for 2024 it does not make them a “double holdback”. We are all aware that within a 12 month bracket at these ages there can be huge differences in size and athleticism that no system can ever even up.

To your questions and comments about how good MD teams are and why they are not "as good as they should be" since they are all 1/2 years older I would say it is because they are actually closer in age than it is made out to be on these boards. I am not saying a 9 month age difference (which is a high end estimate) is not an advantage but it is a whole lot different than saying a 1 to 2 year difference and it is an age gap that can occur in “on age” systems. The reality was it was not that long ago that these kids were all playing age based and there were some great games between the LI & MD teams with LI coming out on top a fair amount but MD teams holding their own and winning as well.

To the question of down the road, college, etc. when I did a quick check of one of the top 20 Div I college teams and looked at the average age of the freshman the average was a little over 19, in a purely age based world this should be 18+ so not so sure if the things will even out argument is a solid one either but I guess time will tell.

I never played lacrosse but have come to love the sport and a couple of final thoughts. My kid is an “on age” 2024 and I have always believed that pre high school kids should be playing in age based systems. I also agree that the lacrosse culture in LI is likely higher than in MD and in an “age based” world there are likely to be more top LI teams as there are more kids playing the sport. In MD the talent pool is smaller so would be more diluted across multiple clubs. I also think it is patently notIntelligent to “rank” or make claims of “the best” at this age. The reality among most of the MD parents I know is that they obviously care about winning now but it is more about high school and college down the road and setting their kids up to be in the best local high schools for both academics and lacrosse. Just my thoughts and some rebuttal on "facts" that are thrown around on these boards. Troll away if you like but happy to engage in discussions with reasoned responses. Good luck to all of our boys this spring and summer.

I highly doubt anyone is going to take the time to read all that, so you may want to pick a lane next time. But, no matter how you want to spin it, MD top teams are much older than LI teams. You want to say 9 months, 10 months, 12 months, or more or less. It doesn't matter. Plain and simple they are a year older, at minimum. I've spent enough time on the MD thread, reading all of the comments from non-holdback parents to know that 90%+ of every single top 10 team is a year older, no matter how you prefer to try to spin it. That's coming from MD parents, not a LI parent. And from many, many MD parents, not just one or two. MD parents are the ones upset and rightfully so, since their kids are the ones being hurt by all of this cheating, not LI. It doesn't even affect us, here. You may or may not be a pot stirrer, and you may believe what you are posting, but you need to spend a lot more time on the MD thread, to get educated on the topic, as it pertains to MD. Because it's apparent that you have a lot to learn. Since you say you never played the game, to me, that translates into a person with a casual interest in the game, which means that you are far less informed than a person that actually played the game and has a true passion for the game. But, rest assured, every single time that one guy from Madlax get's on the LI thread bragging about his year older team (ok, I'm being kind with that comment) barely beating a LI team, I will be on here setting the record straight, making sure every LI parent knows, that when they are playing MD teams, their child's team is playing up a year. And that statement applies more to that one team, then the rest of the MD teams, due to their proximity. You see, we don't care that all the MD teams are a year older. It's all good for us up here. And, it wouldn't ever be discussed on BOTC at all, if it weren't for the one juvenile delinquent dad from Madlax. We truly don't care. But when the Madlax parent wants to spue lies about his little holdback team, I will be on here every single time, qualifying his remarks with facts. Because Madlax is the oldest 2024 team absolutely anywhere. Consider this, they have 60 kids on two 2024 teams and they don't have 15 on-age kids to play in the WSYL? That fact alone proves that over 75% of the team is holdbacks. But we know the % is way, way more than that, now don't we.

then don't play in 2024 grad year tournaments. sign up for u13 or u14 tournaments. right, there aren't any. i've never seen such cry babies in my entire life. you probably complain at work about the guys who are in better paying jobs because they're smarter than you. life ain't fair big boy.

Thank you for the thought provoking commentary, Madlax holdback dad. The real crybabies are the Madlax 2023’s disguised as 2024’s. They won’t play kids their own age. Pathetic crybabies.

Of course none of the rest of us know what post you're referring to.... BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THE QUOTE BUTTON!

Amazing that two non-MD dads have so much insight into MD schools and programs. Quick question: if every team in nJ, PA, and LI, outside the two heroic teams in LI, are doing separate WYSL tryouts, doesn’t that suggest tons of teams outside of Maryland have a few kids who age out? Give it a rest...

"Heroic Teams in Long Island" Dude give me a break. Those two teams are excellent but you really need to stop stroking yourself. Our regular Brotherly Love 2024 Team, the whole starting lineup except for 1 middie is on age. The whole starting attack, the whole defense, and goalie. The one midfielder who is older there are 5 more behind him as good or better.

Brotherly Love is a joke! Do you ever have the same roster in two back to back tourneys. They are crap one week and hired guns the next (Who still don’t win)!

Hey Madlax dad, everyone knows that MD is in a total class of their own, in their cheating ways. And the DC teams, have taken the MD model 10 steps further. What do you know about teams that are going to the WSYL?? You know absolutely nothing about any teams, unless all of the players have facial hair. You don't know if any teams are holding separate tryouts. I'm an informed person, and I know of none. So stay with what you know, which is cheating, and leave the WSYL conversations to the classy teams with integrity, that don't need to cheat to win 7th grade lacrosse games.

awfully quiet in CoachC land. the wizard must be recruiting anyone with a sept 1 05 birthdate. heard through the grapevine that he went into Pennsylvania to recruit best fogo. could only imagine what else he brings in!!!

Dude. Try to stay up. That’s very old news. And Express didn’t recruit the player. The player was looking to play for a LI team. So it was the player who was inquiring, not the other way around. WP has a PA kid too, but not just for WSYL. He wasn’t recruited either. He just wanted to play for the pack. I hear he goes to every single practice, too. These PA kids want to play on top teams, and it’s no secret LI has the best youth lacrosse, anywhere.

how do these clubs get away with having kids from PA on their teams . I guess the WSYL does not enforce the rules .

the power of the almighty dollar

Nope. WSYL rules state players must live within 100 miles of the clubs home base., which is measured as the crow flies. And these players do. 100 miles isn’t that big of a deal to some of these families as many of them are already doing close to this dolistance with their own clubs in PA. Now they are on better teams, with better players, better coaching. Let’s not forget, the nation considers LI synonymous with the best lacrosse anywhere. Absolutely top notch. These kids can play on top LI teams, and not worry about playing behind a bunch of holdbacks, like they would in MD or some other areas. So it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity for these elite caliber kids.

But make no mistake, these families are seeking out the LI clubs. The LI clubs are not going to PA recruiting anyone. These kids go to tryouts, make the teams, commit to practices and games, just like any other player. Where’s the problem?

HAHA, "not worry about playing behind a bunch of holdbacks, like they would in MD or some other areas."

These comments crack me up when LI parents direct them at teams from other areas. The SAME LI parents in these forums complain about other LI teams using hold backs. And yes, I AM A LI PARENT!!!!!!

Whatever makes you cheaters sleep at night.

Does Express have one or two teams Competing in the WSYL qualifiers?

Exactly. Hypocrites. What purpose does it serve to go out and build some custom team for a so called "World Series"?

Hey dummy. Pay attention. These kids are not playing on WSYL-only teams. They are everyday players on their club teams. They go to every practice and every tournament, just as if they lived on the island.

I signed up for the WSYL northern qualifier, this morning. Very thorough documentation process. Scanned them a birth certificate, school ID/Report Card and my drivers liscence. To the Madlax parent... that’s “my” drivers liscence, not the players drivers liscence. I could see how that might confuse you. I don’t see anybody beating this system. This should be done for every tournament. Easy to do. Eliminate all of the sleezey, cheaters out there.

Express is the only team that I am aware that is doing this. They did the same thing last year, but it didn’t pay off as they lost to the 91 Bandits team, which was their regular team. No ringers.

Taz and Pack are playing legit like they always do. No WSYL-only players. Just their regular total on-age teams. No screwing the loyal players and parents that have been with them for years. Win, lose or draw, these teams play with integrity, and play the game the right way. Not many top teams can make that claim.

Hey dummy, that's because they have to, according to the rules. CHEATERS.. its ok.

At the end of the day, NO ONE will ever remember the glorious club victories played on slanted and shortened fields in some cornstalk in Maryland.

Yet they will remember that glorious 7th grade championship in Denver. Kids will get nooky for a decade off of that trophy...

What is wrong with People??? Your proclamation is COMPLETELY FALSE. 91 has an 8th grader on the team.... Legacy has 2 8th graders........ World series eligible but not 2024s.......
Pack has only competed at 2023....Cant say the same of Legacy. You can say Who cares.... ands thats fine... But to make posts that are all High and Mighty is just Garbage.

Anthony is oblivious to what is going on with 2024

Another jealous Pack hater. Same ole same ole. I am a Pack parent and have been since day one. All families on the Pack are very, very tight, so we are all very familiar with each other. I can assure you there has never been an 8th grader on this team. Anybody that knows anything at all about the Pack knows that would never happen on this team.

Consider this... the coaches could very EASILY stack this team with a lot of kids from the WSYL championship Bandit team if they so desired. Everyone knows that. The Pack could walk away with that trophy, with ease, if they wanted to go down that road, that basically every other team takes. But the Pack chooses not to, and maintain loyalty to their parents and players. Is there any team, anywhere, that can say the same thing?? The answer is NO. Does this sound like a team that would recruit 8th graders??

And now some jealous mud slinger wants to soil the Packs reputation, because they are desperately afraid that the Pack is going to maintain their winning ways this year, and do so with class and character, matched by no other team. The real Pack haters can obviously not bare the thought!

I'm calling you out, again! Your jealous obsession has crossed the line. Tell us who these imaginary, stud 8th graders are, on the Pack. Give us some specifics. Jersey numbers. Home towns. Something. The last time this came up, of course, I got no response. C'mon, whatcha got for me, little man?? Very little man.

Go get a job mommy.

Madlax recently posted online their spring rosters. Out of 11 youth teams, Capital 2024 is the only roster not posted but rather "players have all been privately emailed status." Congrats to kids that made it - any reason why this stacked team has been so stealthily chosen?

Another jealous Pack hater. Same ole same ole. I am a Pack parent and have been since day one. All families on the Pack are very, very tight, so we are all very familiar with each other. I can assure you there has never been an 8th grader on this team. Anybody that knows anything at all about the Pack knows that would never happen on this team.

Consider this... the coaches could very EASILY stack this team with a lot of kids from the WSYL championship Bandit team if they so desired. Everyone knows that. The Pack could walk away with that trophy, with ease, if they wanted to go down that road, that basically every other team takes. But the Pack chooses not to, and maintain loyalty to their parents and players. Is there any team, anywhere, that can say the same thing?? The answer is NO. Does this sound like a team that would recruit 8th graders??

And now some jealous mud slinger wants to soil the Packs reputation, because they are desperately afraid that the Pack is going to maintain their winning ways this year, and do so with class and character, matched by no other team. The real Pack haters can obviously not bare the thought!

I'm calling you out, again! Your jealous obsession has crossed the line. Tell us who these imaginary, stud 8th graders are, on the Pack. Give us some specifics. Jersey numbers. Home towns. Something. The last time this came up, of course, I got no response. C'mon, whatcha got for me, little man?? Very little man.
[/quote]
Go get a job mommy.[/quote]


Wow. There’s so much comedy here, it’s pretty sad a Player’s Mom wrote this. This lady must be a real treat on the sideline.

We may as well start at the top:
“Same ole same ole.” - Ole? Are we at a Bullfight? We must be b/c the BS in this post is about as thick as it comes....

“All families on the Pack are very, very tight, so we are all very familiar with each other.” - Perhaps too familiar? Are you a bunch of Swingers or parents of kids on a youth lacrosse team?

“the coaches could very EASILY stack this team with a lot of kids from the WSYL championship Bandit team if they so desired” - Really? So the parents of the kids on an 8th grade team are going to jump at the chance to spend another $5k+ per family to help your team win a meaningless July lacrosse tournament they already dominated last year? I’m sure JS would let his kids sign up for that one.

“the Pack chooses not to, and maintain loyalty to their parents and players.” - I believe you’re trying to say the team has been loyal to the same kids since the team started. This is false - they’ve added bigger and better kids every year. There’s no more loyalty on this team than any other and the only untouchables are the Coaches’ kids.

“Pack is going to maintain their winning ways this year, and do so with class and character, matched by no other team.” - This is true because no other team chooses to duck real competition by playing in 2023 B brackets then proclaiming their superiority as loudly as these Packrats.

“The real Pack haters can obviously not bare the thought!” - It’s “bear the thought” not “bare” like your exposed narcissism.

Please continue reminding us how much integrity, class, and character your tight little 7th grade lacrosse team has PackMom, b/c it’s obvious you have no real clue as to what those words mean.

Shut up. You have no idea about the kids birthdays on the bandits. 91 tried this before. They brought crush kids down to blaze and ruined thr team chemistry so bad it still hasnt recovered. Needless to say, 91 wsyl team got crushed by a legacy team a little older.

Mr loyalty you can rest assure when the lil wolfpack starts getting their brains beat in at NLF tourneys you will see how fast the roster turns over. Pending on how they do at the qualifier will determine if the bandits eligible players come on board. Lil Jonnys days are numbered. Remember at the end of the day its all about the business. Look at the bandits. Won the world series then got run over at NLF tourney and roster got turned over real quick. The loyal ones from day one got pushed to the back of the bus. The fun is just beginning!!!

I have never seen such a huge gap between Big kids and little....You have 70 lbs vs 150 lbs... Its no contest.

A very doom and gloom outlook except a few facts.
First all the 2023 Bandits players would have to be age eligible, and when for the most part are also hold backs from 2022 and what made them so good at 2023.its impossible other than a select few
Secondly, the roster is submitted prior to the qualifier and set for whatever players are going to Denver so adding kids after can't happen.
91 recruited 5 of the oldest elidgible kids starting from tryouts, they have 27 players as it is, 2 will need to be left off their Denver roster as is..

I must say, these responses gave me a good chuckle, but none more than this one. For a parent, that is not part of the team, you sure do seem to know a heck of a lot. Who's your source?? Because, you may want to find a new one. LOL. First, when you see the Pack at an upcoming tourney, and assuming that you can actually count to 22, you will count 22 Wolfpack players. Not 27. Then, if your sons team is fortunate enough to go to Denver in June, you can count the Wolfpack players once again. Want to take a stab at how many you will count in Denver? Correct! Once again, you will count 22 players. The exact same 22 players that you counted prior to Denver, at absolutely any tourney on the east coast. Yes. Same team for all tournaments. Same 22 kids. Not 27 kids. 22 kids. Not leaving 2 kids home, when going to Denver. Every kid on the team is WSYL age-eligible. Staying up with me so far?? Now, I have a question for you. How exactly does a team recruit "5 of the oldest elidgible kids starting from tryouts"? First, can you translate that into english? LOL. Second, how does a team get "5 of the oldest kids eligible"? Bro, this aint Express. The Pack doesn't want old, big kids. They would be interest in big... AWESOME LACROSSE PLAYER kids. But I can assure you, there aren't 5 big, AWESOME LACROSSE PLAYER kids available. Sounds a lot like your last claim of having 27 players, now doesn't it? Are we clear now? No 27 kids. 22 kids. One team. Not two teams. All WSYL age-eligible. No leaving holdbacks home, when we go to Denver. No 5 new big, old kids born on Sept 2nd, 2005. Just the Pack, playing the game the right way, like they always do. With character and integrity. This team doesn't look to cheat anybody or any process. Why is that so hard for some people to believe? It appears that the expectation of most people is to cheat. That's apparently the world we live in, today. Very sad, indeed.

I just can't remember when the Pack last won something.

That was very sentimental. Now after you crawl out of your BS in Denver and the almighty Pack just got done laying an egg with your “22” lil boys you’ll be able to say at least we did it the right way!!! Go Pack go. America’s team