BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

I'm sorry. How many times has Express beaten Madlax? Once. So this whole thing about we beat you, you beat us, we beat you, you beat us, really doesn't hold. Express has beaten Madlax once....at NLF. Again, if you don't want to play in 2024 tournaments, don't sign up. Look for some 13U tournaments. Right, the only one of those is WSYL. Good luck there. I'm sure the Wolfpack will clean your clocks.

Just wait until 2020, when 24 comes back and teams up with the beast and other mid.....the LI dads will go beserk!

Sorry to intrude on this two way conversation but I can add that I have watched many 2024 Madlax players who also play outside of Madlax tournaments. I really do not know and do not care about the DOB's of these players but if the 2024 kids are really older than they are an average to below average 2023 team. Look at the box league this winter, Mclean box league, fall brawl, NVYLL 14U, or other times where many of these kids play outside of Madlax. They are not the best players in middle school. Some of the older DC Dogs players are top 8th graders but they are also older than the other 8th graders so they do not play in these age restricted leagues and events. The 2024 players do but certainly do not dominate on age 8th graders.

Ok one little question. If you see Madlax Cap 2024 players playing in NVYLL then they are not as old as people try to say they are. NVYLL is a age based league. So what level are the on age players for 2024 playing in 14U or 12U ? If everyone is playing in 14U then they are all no more then 24 months apart at the very most? But if you are telling me the on age kids play 12U and the Madlax kids play 14U then they could be a lot older LOL?

I guess when your players are not the correct age it can be confusing. For the rest of us it is very easy. NVYLL even has a birth date chart to assist. But, let me spell it out for you. This is a 2024 group so none of them would be 12U that would have been last season. 12U is 5th and 6th grade division and 14U is 7th and 8th graders. Since last spring there was a Mclean box fall league, fall brawl tournament, Madlax box league and there will be NVYLL this spring. There have been and will be Madlax kids in each of these. The 2024 team should all be in 7th grade and playing 14U. Funny thing is that Madlax 2023's for the most part do not play in any of these events as they have already aged out? Many 2024's do play in Mclean league, Fall Brawl, Madlax box (their own league) and NVYLL. These are all age based. When playing true on age teams in the 14U Div. the Madlax players do not seem to dominate these leagues. They should be younger 7th graders and may next year but they will be the best but this fall and this year they did not. The 8th grade Madlax players for the most part to not participate in these leagues. Mainly because the 8th grade team is mostly a MD team. However even look at the Madlax box league which is open to on age 7th and 8th graders where VLC and Cavalier 8th graders are the top teams. If Madlax 2024 is comprised of older players (I have zero knowledge to verify this) then they would be average at best if they played other 2023 teams in the area.

The true 2024 players play on LI . NO DOUBT.

I took a look at the MadLax box league but am not sure how to decipher it. Is the junior elite 7/8 and future elite 5/6? I don't see a MadLax team entered but I do see the VLC and Cavs. I find it hard to believe CM would have a league that is age based unless no one would enter without that restriction. It also appears as if the CBLL teams have some kids from ML but they are not tied to the specific team roster so maybe not a good comparison of organized fall tournament/spring team for the clubs. The CBLL teams look like a mix of ML, individual sign ups and perhaps friends grouping together.

That’s where you’re wrong. Again. We like playing the MD holdback teams. Great for our kids. Competitive games. Just don’t know why you play 12/13 year old teams. For me, I always wanted my kid to play up. He’s good enough, but too small, so reluctantly he has stayed on grade. It never entered my mind for him to ever play down. Why would I do that? The more he is challenged, within reason, the better for his development. Common sense. I was shocked the first time I went to MD for a tourney and learned that most of the kids were a year older than my kid, and playing down. Why would anyone do that, I thought. Absolutely the worst thing for a kids development. Do MD teams need T-shirt’s that badly. Still blows my mind how prevalent it is in MD, and how some teams, like Madlax, take it to the extreme.

Hey LI kid, I know of at least 4 holdbacks on your team. And you'll be cut from next year's team as they bring on more. As an LI Dad, I know this is happening more and more up here it's just that the school start date is a little later so there is a 3 month younger difference in our holdbacks.

I took a look at the MadLax box league but am not sure how to decipher it. Is the junior elite 7/8 and future elite 5/6? I don't see a MadLax team entered but I do see the VLC and Cavs. I find it hard to believe CM would have a league that is age based unless no one would enter without that restriction. It also appears as if the CBLL teams have some kids from ML but they are not tied to the specific team roster so maybe not a good comparison of organized fall tournament/spring team for the clubs. The CBLL teams look like a mix of ML, individual sign ups and perhaps friends grouping together.

I don’t think I’m giving any secrets away when I say, yes, it’s a big problem down here. Given the choice, most people would prefer an age based system. But it is what it is. And it’s not going to change. But please don’t lump all teams into the ML category. They have a very unique situation in DC, since they all go to private’s, many/most of whom start K late. Typical teams have a lot of holdbacks it’s true, but nothing like that team.

And next year there will be no Madlax players, as they will be aged out.

Most Madlax 2024 kids don't play rec. Madlax 2024 coach tries to forbid it. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't know a single Madlax 2024 Capital kid that plays rec box. Some of the orange helmets that you saw may have been DMV kids. When Madlax 2024 Capital kids play rec, they mostly do it for kicks and extra reps and miss more games than they make. Also they are usually on an island surrounded by non-club kids. Madlax 2024 is not like Cavalier and some of the other Virginia clubs that will take their entire club team and also enter it as a rec team. But even when programs like Cavalier do this, there are some Madlax on-age 7th graders that can run circles around the Cavalier and other Virginia 8th grade teams. Saw it first hand at Fall Brawl this last fall. If I remember correctly, Madlax 2024 beat Cavalier 2023 not that long ago.

"some Madlax on-age 7th graders that can run circles around the Cavalier and other Virginia 8th grade teams. Saw it first hand at Fall Brawl this last fall."

You may have attended a different event. The fall brawl was at Robinson HS. There were no Madlax 2024 kids on the top teams maybe in the B bracket?

There are plenty of kids playing. They are interspersed among the cbll teams.

Why did the Madlax kid who played for the DC Dogs 2023 team reclass at 7th grade? Would think he would wait until next year.

Where did the 7 new Madlax holdbacks come from? Heard that some were from BL. Not sure that’s correct though.

Talking about same event. If I remember correctly, the team that I am thinking of swept pool play, won braveheart in semifinal, and was leading by several goals with minutes to go in final when they blew lead.

CBLL is not rec

"CBLL is not rec"

What is it? PP said there were no ML kids playing in the rec box league and there are unless the ML box league isn't considered rec.

Still waiting for a response to the question that I have posted several times now, directed to any Madlax parent.

WHY DOES MADLAX PLAY DOWN FOR ALL THEIR GAMES?

Here is one more. Since the Madlax DC plays down, I assume the Madlax DC 2025 also plays down. So how about you get that team to go to the WSYL, since they should be age eligible, for the most part. What am I thinking! That would never work, since then they wouldn’t be playing down. They wouldnt even qualify. Sorry. Your age-game always screws me up.

So if you were at this event explain how Madlax 2024 players run circles around NVA 8th graders? The best MCLean kids were Next Level and VLC and they did not win.

What you’re forgetting is Madlax 7th graders are the age of 8th graders.

The organization sold the family on doing it now.

There's a few ML 2024 kids that played fall McLean box lacrosse - made almost every game.

Not ML parent here - there's a few kids on the very good ML 2025 capital team who are correctly aged 6th graders - they do have some big defensemen though. The really bad 2025/26 DVM team has a developmental 2024 player.

For a class based league or tournament, correctly aged means any kid in the 6th grade born after 8/30/2005. This means he will have 4 years of egibility during high school until graduation. The USL and a good amount of clubs in the U.S. differ on this and the 2 sets of rules are wildly different from age to contact and more.

Take it to the Madlax forum, we've heard enough. They (2024) aren't that good. They didn't win their spring division in MD, holdbacks or not and didn't win Elite 8.

I don’t know, but their old big midi told my kid that they have seven more this year, so that appears to be accurate.

How many kids born after 8/30/2005 are in 6th grade now? These are 2024s

As a HoCo parent, I would love to see HoCo clean up the league. There is a simple, easy fix that will keep club owners happy, allow kids some flexibility to play with friends from school, protect the kids from injury, and protect the league from criticism and liability. All HoCo has to do is change one sentence of their bylaws & league rules to mirror what AAU has done for years. AAU knows what it is doing and has struck the perfect grade/age balance and HoCo should learn from AAU's lead.

HoCo's "club" bylaws current read: The Conference follows a grade based system based on the player's current grade level. Players who are participating in any high-school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, or varsity team is not eligible for the 8th grade division.

The only change that needs to be made is: The Conference follows a grade based system based on the player’s current grade level, but in order to play in the 8th grade division the player must not have turned 15 before beginning the 8th grade; to play in the 7th grade division the player must not have turned 14 before beginning the 7th grade; etc. Players who are participating in any high-school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, or varsity team is not eligible for the 8th grade division.

As you can see, this tracks the AAU age restrictions found on page 5: http://image.aausports.org/handbooks/boys_basketball/2018_BoysBskHandbook_10-5-2017_V02-GT.pdf.

This simple rule change would allow kids to continue to play with their existing club team, unless they have been held-back more than once.
Hopefully we can all agree that with summer birthdays, kids doing pre-K for non-lacrosse reasons, kids repeating grades for academic or admission reasons, there should be some flexibility for kids to play with their current grade, but there really is no reason to allow double-holdbacks to play in a youth league, even if it is grade based. Let's clean up the league and make it a more level, safer playing field for all.

What you propose makes sense except HoCo has different divisions based on skills. The biggest offenders of the double holdbacks are the clubs who are well known for this practice. If you are truly concerned, you should go to your club and ask to play in a lower level. There is no shame for wanting to play against equal competition and everyone knows those clubs are the worst practitioners.

Funny considering my son is an on age player for madlax 24 capital and played in the fall brawl and ran circles around most of the 23s from Braddock rd and Cavs/VLC. Total joke! And like the previous post stated, most of the better madlax 24s don’t even play Rec in VA. And lastly, the Cbll can’t be used for any sort of comparison. Over 50% of the 24 madlax Capital team doesn’t play box at all and most of the the ones that do play box only play for the NorthStars team.

the problem is you do not know what on age is. being 14 turning 15 is not on age. So please!!!

oh please. if the kid played in fall brawl then he was on age USL.
but oh please. if 50% of ML capital didn't play box then they probably weren't USL on age.

Remember, ML couldn't field a team to try and qualify for WSYL from over 50 kids on the 2 teams. And ML, and others in the elite division at HoCo, play double holdbacks. Ridonkulous.

Does it make you feel good to make things up an an anonymous site? Maybe you are not the real dad because anyone with any pride would not make up statements. There was NO kid at Fall Brawl who "ran circles" around the Braddock road team. They won the tournament. I was at the game and did not think there was any real standout on any team. There were some good players but no kid ran circles around the other players. If your kid was on the Mclean team the best kids were the Next Level kid, the VLC tall defender and the DC Dog kid. The team with Madlax players did NOT win so there is that. Kudos to him if he is younger but he would be an average 8th grade player at the AAA level. Many of the kids on all sides even the winning side have '05 birthdays.

So you grand solution to the holdback problem is to eliminate the double holdbacks, but holdbacks are fine?? Really?? By definition, that does nothing for the holdback issue.

You will always have kids that are older no matter what system you follow. If you use calendar year, or 9/1 age, then there will always be kids that are up to 364 days older. At least if you follow the AAU model, kids are in a tighter age range than they otherwise would be. It is the best of both worlds. You are never going to get clubs to go back to age based, so you are wasting your breath on that argument. That ship has sailed. Grade is much easier for clubs and recruiting. You don't have kids flip-flopping between age brackets. They just move up together and gel as a team. They stay with their friends from school and teammates from other grade based teams.

Don't argue with these NY donks. The current class based system works well and that's why the wide majority of the country uses it. The AAU model is a good one but the top clubs won't impose it upon themselves and the HoCo is a collective of clubs and the clubs make the rules. It's up to the clubs to institute a rule like this.

You guys aren’t thinking this through. If the double holdbacks are eliminated, how is MD and especially DC suppose to compete with true on age Long Island teams, with only one year holdbacks? C’mon now, people. You gotta think through these things.