BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

You will always have kids that are older no matter what system you follow. If you use calendar year, or 9/1 age, then there will always be kids that are up to 364 days older. At least if you follow the AAU model, kids are in a tighter age range than they otherwise would be. It is the best of both worlds. You are never going to get clubs to go back to age based, so you are wasting your breath on that argument. That ship has sailed. Grade is much easier for clubs and recruiting. You don't have kids flip-flopping between age brackets. They just move up together and gel as a team. They stay with their friends from school and teammates from other grade based teams.

Rising 8th graders are 12 and 13. You’re saying it’s ok for the kid to be 15 on the 2nd day of school, of 8th grade. That makes him a year and a half older than many on age kids. FYI that’s a holdback!! The thing you’re trying to eliminate. Remember? You MD people have a serious addiction problem with holdbacks. Gotta ween yourself off the drug? How bout going cold turkey. Change that 15 to a 14 and play true on age like the rest of the world.

As a HoCo parent, I would love to see HoCo clean up the league. There is a simple, easy fix that will keep club owners happy, allow kids some flexibility to play with friends from school, protect the kids from injury, and protect the league from criticism and liability. All HoCo has to do is change one sentence of their bylaws & league rules to mirror what AAU has done for years. AAU knows what it is doing and has struck the perfect grade/age balance and HoCo should learn from AAU's lead.

HoCo's "club" bylaws current read: The Conference follows a grade based system based on the player's current grade level. Players who are participating in any high-school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, or varsity team is not eligible for the 8th grade division.

The only change that needs to be made is: The Conference follows a grade based system based on the player’s current grade level, but in order to play in the 8th grade division the player must not have turned 15 before beginning the 8th grade; to play in the 7th grade division the player must not have turned 14 before beginning the 7th grade; etc. Players who are participating in any high-school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, or varsity team is not eligible for the 8th grade division.

As you can see, this tracks the AAU age restrictions found on page 5: http://image.aausports.org/handbooks/boys_basketball/2018_BoysBskHandbook_10-5-2017_V02-GT.pdf.

This simple rule change would allow kids to continue to play with their existing club team, unless they have been held-back more than once.
Hopefully we can all agree that with summer birthdays, kids doing pre-K for non-lacrosse reasons, kids repeating grades for academic or admission reasons, there should be some flexibility for kids to play with their current grade, but there really is no reason to allow double-holdbacks to play in a youth league, even if it is grade based. Let's clean up the league and make it a more level, safer playing field for all.

Sounds like you need to work on your reading comprehension and math. Go back and read the original email. If it helps read it really slowly. In HoCo area and most of the country the age cutoff is 9/1.

Don't kid yourself. NY teams have just as many, if not more holdbacks than MD teams. What do you think a kid with a fall 2005 birthday playing LI 2024 is?

Don't kid yourself. NY teams have just as many, if not more holdbacks than MD teams. What do you think a kid with a fall 2005 birthday playing LI 2024 is?

Grade base is a joke in Youth in AAU BB, The better Youth teams dont follow grades. ...Most teams are age based in AAU BB YOUTH..HS varies depending on area. Youth Club Lacrosse in Maryland is cancer that is spreading out across the country. Holdbacks in Youth lacrosse is wrong. Common sense tells you that

Really Madlax-double-holdback-dad? Is your kid the former ‘23 DC Dogs 6’1” 170 pounder? Or maybe he is 12? LMAO!

LI has more holdbacks? Just once, could you make a mature comment that doesn’t sound like it was made by one of your holdbacks?

Right after the on age LI teams dominate the 2023/2022 MD teams, they will be headed to the 13U World Series of Youth Lacrosse to defend their thrown as the best 2024 team in the world. All 100% 13U non-cheating players. NO HOLD BACKS!! UNDERSTAND DUMBA$$?? What will the 60 Madlax players be doing that week? They will be watching the best 2024 players in the world, that what. NO HOLDBACKS. NONE.

And middle school is where the difference is magnified 100X. The difference between a 12 year old pre-pubescent and a 15 year post-pubescent is the difference between “babies” and “men”. The 12 year old “babies” are 4’10” 99 lbs vs 6’ 1”+ 165 lbs+ 15 year old “men”. So these kids that should be playing high school varsity on a very high level, are competing against small 99 lb boys. How does it make any sense at all to put the two together. It’s a recipe for disaster. Somebody is going to get seriously hurt or possibly worse. And when that happens, and it will happen, the masses will say, how did any responsible adult knowingly let that happen? The proverbial LaxinItUp will hit the fan, and big time changes will happen very fast. But it’s unconscionsble that it’s going to take such a tragic event to make that happen, when anybody with a brain larger than the size of a pea, knows what is going on here is wrong!

Maybe we can get a reasonable answer for this, from a Madlax parent. Personally, I don’t think Madlax is all holdbacks. My best estimate is that the team is 2/3’s holdbacks. If that’s accuarate, since Madlax has two teams, there should be approximately 20 on-age players, between the two teams. Plenty of players to go to Denver. However, there is no team, so that indicates two things to me. 1. I’m wrong and the team is a lot more than 2/3’s holdbacks, or 2. The owners/coaches feel that these 20 players are subpar players. Which is it?

So what is your alternative? Is it - any delayed entry kid born before March 1 (approximate HoCo start date) will have to play in the class category above? Are you advocating the country goes back to strict calendar year to start school so all 8th graders could only be a maximum of 14 for the HoCo league? Is it to follow USL rules on participation?

Others have suggested going strictly by age where on a kid's birthday, they age up into the next group automatically. This way a kid will be the youngest and eventually be the oldest on the team.

Then you have to figure out how to get all the clubs and organizations to follow any change in a way that is to their benefit without financial or organizational pain. The clubs don't care because the older kids make their teams better. The colleges don't care because it is saving them the cost of red-shirting and they now have a better recruiting sense because all these holdbacks have matured and there are less surprises when they hit college. The parents don't care because they think they are doing what's best for their kids.

It's been a problem for a long time but the constant disruption on these threads don't move the needle.

As a HoCo parent, I would love to see HoCo clean up the league. There is a simple, easy fix that will keep club owners happy, allow kids some flexibility to play with friends from school, protect the kids from injury, and protect the league from criticism and liability. All HoCo has to do is change one sentence of their bylaws & league rules to mirror what AAU has done for years. AAU knows what it is doing and has struck the perfect grade/age balance and HoCo should learn from AAU's lead.

HoCo's "club" bylaws current read: The Conference follows a grade based system based on the player's current grade level. Players who are participating in any high-school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, or varsity team is not eligible for the 8th grade division.

The only change that needs to be made is: The Conference follows a grade based system based on the player’s current grade level, but in order to play in the 8th grade division the player must not have turned 15 before beginning the 8th grade; to play in the 7th grade division the player must not have turned 14 before beginning the 7th grade; etc. Players who are participating in any high-school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, or varsity team is not eligible for the 8th grade division
As you can see, this tracks the AAU age restrictions found on page 5: http://image.aausports.org/handbooks/boys_basketball/2018_BoysBskHandbook_10-5-2017_V02-GT.pdf.

This simple rule change would allow kids to continue to play with their existing club team, unless they have been held-back more than once.
Hopefully we can all agree that with summer birthdays, kids doing pre-K for non-lacrosse reasons, kids repeating grades for academic or admission reasons, there should be some flexibility for kids to play with their current grade, but there really is no reason to allow double-holdbacks to play in a youth league, even if it is grade based. Let's clean up the league and make it a more level, safer playing field for all.

Grade base is a joke in Youth in AAU BB, The better Youth teams dont follow grades. ...Most teams are age based in AAU BB YOUTH..HS varies depending on area. Youth Club Lacrosse in Maryland is cancer that is spreading out across the country. Holdbacks in Youth lacrosse is wrong. Common sense tells you that

And middle school is where the difference is magnified 100X. The difference between a 12 year old pre-pubescent and a 15 year post-pubescent is the difference between “babies” and “men”. The 12 year old “babies” are 4’10” 99 lbs vs 6’ 1”+ 165 lbs+ 15 year old “men”. So these kids that should be playing high school varsity on a very high level, are competing against small 99 lb boys. How does it make any sense at all to put the two together. It’s a recipe for disaster. Somebody is going to get seriously hurt or possibly worse. And when that happens, and it will happen, the masses will say, how did any responsible adult knowingly let that happen? The proverbial LaxinItUp will hit the fan, and big time changes will happen very fast. But it’s unconscionsble that it’s going to take such a tragic event to make that happen, when anybody with a brain larger than the size of a pea, knows what is going on here is wrong!

Provide an alternative with dates of eligibility.

I have to ask, My younger son plays travel hockey, all those teams go by birth year. is there a reason why travel lax has not done the same?

I have to ask, My younger son plays travel hockey, all those teams go by birth year. is there a reason why travel lax has not done the same?

COMMON SENSE : Most Schools use Sept 1 ...USE THAT for Youth Lacrosse ( up to 8th grade) .. Somehow for 50 years YOUTH lacrosse survived based on Age until about 5 years ago when the Private school holdback/prefirst influence reared its ugly head.

Frankly the match that stated it was the ignorant people from HOCO ( who have children in Private schools) who started a GRADE base league instead of AGE based like ALL other leagues are in Howard County recreation Department.

HS is where you can get an your advantage. Common Sense.. HS is about grade and Youth is about AGE..Spin Away Prefirst/holdback apologists. More parents are reclassing/prefirst/holdback than ever before, Holdbacks are becoming an epidemic due to advantage in youth sports. Pretty Sad

Similarly, all of youth soccer has gone age-based (Jan 1). Somehow all of those players are still getting into college. Doesn't seem very difficult.

UMMM US Lacrosse has age guidelines as well. September is the most logical as it mirrors many school systems. However, HOCO chooses not to use US Lacrosse guidelines. Funny how the US Lacrosse in in Sparks not far from the home base for several clubs and yet they have no influence on the youth game. US Lacrosse should reach out and make a bigger push or get out of the way. The age guidelines US Lacrosse uses should be enforced by a Howard County public league.

UMMM US Lacrosse has age guidelines as well. September is the most logical as it mirrors many school systems. However, HOCO chooses not to use US Lacrosse guidelines. Funny how the US Lacrosse in in Sparks not far from the home base for several clubs and yet they have no influence on the youth game. US Lacrosse should reach out and make a bigger push or get out of the way. The age guidelines US Lacrosse uses should be enforced by a Howard County public league.

MadLax didn't have enough age eligible to field 1 team so #2 doesn't matter. Unfortunately, that's true and the kids they did have that were good played for Next Level last year. They then went back to ML.

So what is your alternative? Is it - any delayed entry kid born before March 1 (approximate HoCo start date) will have to play in the class category above? Are you advocating the country goes back to strict calendar year to start school so all 8th graders could only be a maximum of 14 for the HoCo league? Is it to follow USL rules on participation?

Others have suggested going strictly by age where on a kid's birthday, they age up into the next group automatically. This way a kid will be the youngest and eventually be the oldest on the team.

Then you have to figure out how to get all the clubs and organizations to follow any change in a way that is to their benefit without financial or organizational pain. The clubs don't care because the older kids make their teams better. The colleges don't care because it is saving them the cost of red-shirting and they now have a better recruiting sense because all these holdbacks have matured and there are less surprises when they hit college. The parents don't care because they think they are doing what's best for their kids.

It's been a problem for a long time but the constant disruption on these threads don't move the needle.

In discussing top 2024 in the Mid Atlantic, don't forget Cavalier 2024. Inside Lacrosse ranks them #16 in the world.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqLcCF1ADnW

Largest Sport in World that recruits talent is by age, Soccer. Anyone with any sense or fairplay knows that youth sports should be by age.

Lacrosse is the only youth sport I know that is overrun with older kids at highest level playing against younger kids, and then claiming that same older players are superstars. Sad but Funny

Got it. You are upset because you are no longer the oldest in your class and you want to beat up on the June through August kids.

If it's an age group instead of a class based why does it have to be September. I think it should go by calendar year so my January kid is the oldest and you are the youngest.

The only answer is exact birth date. A kid celebrates his 12th birthday, they move out of 11U and into 12U/13U. And if a kid ages out during HoCo then tough. Good luck in trying to implement it as the parents with kids born in September - November or holdbacks will never agree. The teams shout about team function (nonsense at the youth level) and there's just more paperwork involved so the tournaments and clubs don't want the hassle.

The double holdback, however, is absolutely outrageous. This is a kid who is born prior to the 9/1 date and is then held back sometime again. Some of it is due to learning or social problems but some of it is absolutely sports related.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
The only way to fix HoCo in a way that clubs will actually agree to is the AAU rules. They have been tested and they work in a sport that actually matters.

I take it your kid is one of the kids getting "run" over. Get used to it. He is still going to be small in high school.

Cavalier not good. Glorified rec. Those rankings are a total joke.

I take it your kid is one of the kids getting "run" over. Get used to it. He is still going to be small in high school.

Got it. You are upset because you are no longer the oldest in your class and you want to beat up on the June through August kids.

If it's an age group instead of a class based why does it have to be September. I think it should go by calendar year so my January kid is the oldest and you are the youngest.

The only answer is exact birth date. A kid celebrates his 12th birthday, they move out of 11U and into 12U/13U. And if a kid ages out during HoCo then tough. Good luck in trying to implement it as the parents with kids born in September - November or holdbacks will never agree. The teams shout about team function (nonsense at the youth level) and there's just more paperwork involved so the tournaments and clubs don't want the hassle.

The double holdback, however, is absolutely outrageous. This is a kid who is born prior to the 9/1 date and is then held back sometime again. Some of it is due to learning or social problems but some of it is absolutely sports related.

Why is September the most logical if you are going age based instead of class? Why not calendar year since the entire country thinks January 1st is the first day of the year but not every school system starts on 9/1. Why not March 1st since that's the approximate start date of the league and that's when you really are trying to regulate the age. It's not so easy.

USL is a joke. It has no power and is completely in-bred and full of cronyism. It exists merely to feed itself.

It is easy.. Pick a date. Sept 1 works with majority of school systems. Or Jan 1 which soccer has done. It isnt that hard, It is just a date all have to live with. We are talking YOUTH sports ?? RIght ?? High School is still grade last I checked ??

It is easy.. Pick a date. Sept 1 works with majority of school systems. Or Jan 1 which soccer has done. It isnt that hard, It is just a date all have to live with. We are talking YOUTH sports ?? RIght ?? High School is still grade last I checked ??

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=cltlax][quote=Anonymous]
It is easy.. Pick a date. Sept 1 works with majority of school systems. Or Jan 1 which soccer has done. It isnt that hard, It is just a date all have to live with. We are talking YOUTH sports ?? RIght ?? High School is still grade last I checked ??

Most people on the 2024 thread call any ‘05 Birthday a holdback. So make it Jan 1st.