BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

Guys the unfortunate thing is the age catch doesn't happen like you think. The boys don't always catch up. The talent you see know is the talent that stays. There may be a few outliers. The mythical catch up never happens the majority of families doing it are those with the better kids. And no it is not just DMV or Texas or Cali. Its Ct and LI too. Look at the rosters at Chaminade and St A's. Look at the roster at Smithtown many 2000 DOBs, many late in the year but 2000 non the less.

A pre 1st, then hold-back in 8th, is a 16 year old 9th grader against 14 yo advantage 16 yo. That same pre 1st HB is now 19/20 yo college freshman against a 17/18 yo.college freshman. or a 23/24 yo college Sr against a 21/22 yo college sr.

Yes - it's age appropriate competition. Lacrosse is a contact sport where size, weight, speed and experience matter. Fortunately, most private schools have lacrosse teams and can play against private schools so your redshirt child can play w/ their redshirts friends against other redshirt kids the same age.

Sounds like a club coach or director have sold you well. But you need to look closer at their motivation. They’re in the business of winning NOW. For some clubs, holdbacks are the biggest part of that strategy. When your son no longer helps with attaining that goal, they are thrown out like yesterday’s newspaper. By junior year, the holdbacks advantage is over. He is now just a mediocre player, trying to compete against the superior kids he use to have an advantage over.

But now that advantage is gone, because the younger kids have caught up or VERY likely SURPASSED the physical advantages that he enjoyed during his early youth. He will be exposed for what he he has always been. An average player, at best. I’ve been coaching youth lacrosse for 15 years and I’ve seen this played out time and time again. Enjoy the advantage now, because within the next 3 years, it’s all over.

nope bucked the system i too have been coaching forever maybe it is time you took a break. i did. i am not saying i agree it is what it is. I was just stating facts. yeah its over in three years when they are in college and hit the 1% kids

Question for you. Since you are arguing the pro side of the holdback controversy, im assuming you are from MD or the surrounding area. Also assuming you are not a Madlax parent since you seem rational. So here goes... why do you think the MD teams have so much trouble with the LI teams, who are much younger? If the MD players are top tier players, and a year or more older than the LI players, then there should be no contest. But that is clearly not the case.

They dont have trouble with LI teams, especially not at the 2024 level.

Thank you dumba$$ Madlax kid, but the question was directed to the gentlemen from MD, not the imbeciles from DC.

That is a very good question. MD teams play an entire HOCO season before playing the LI teams, while the LI teams are just beginning their tourney season. And every MD team is LOADED with holdbacks, and always have been. If these MD teams are top teams, these games should not be remotely close. But they always are very close. Would love some “intelligent” responses.

Happy new year from Madlax Capital 2024. We just one a California tournament easily. Is anyone going to beat us in 2019? The answer is no. We just picked up another big athletic middle that's going to kill your little LI Shrimps. Good luck this year Long Island [ChillLaxin]!
From Madlax

Saddest tournament ever especially with all your talk on wasting time and money on Denver. Looks like denver elite gave you all you could handle. Sad

1. Not the Madlax DC team
2. “Can’t afford to go to Denver” but fly to California to play T W O weak west coast B teams. Lmao. Just like last summer when they went to THE EASIEST “B” tournament of the year in Denver, but “can’t afford to go to the WSYL”.
3. Beat an on age Denver B team 2-1! Lol! Great soccer game!
4. This team will do ANYTHING to win a tournament. That’s why they enter all the easiest tourneys, anywhere in the country.

COWARDS!!!!

Your holdbacks beat an on age Denver B team 2-1. LMAO!!! And that was your national team, not the DC team. How embarrassing to spend ALL that money to play TWO “B”teams!! You can thank your psychotic club for that bill! What a waste of $$$$$$$$. And we all know you parents can’t afford to go to Denver, so what are they thinking!!

Listen up young man. Do your parents know that you are on this website at school?? I didn’t think so. You need to pay attention to your teachers, especially in English class, because when you win something it’s spelled “won”. Not “one”! Guess the teachers in private school don’t teach so good.

Funny. Not one rational, semi intelligent attempt at a response to this. Not one.

Here’s your answer. It’s very simple. LI teams have flat out the best lacrosse players. Period. Top top tier players. MD DC on age players can not compete, obviously. MD DC holdbacks are average skilled players at best. Their extra year to two is their sole advantage.

When the LI players catch up and surpass these holdbacks, physically, which comes by HS, the games will be one lop sided joke in LI’s favor. Keep cheating MD DC. Enjoy it while you can, if you can, because most of the time you lose to LI kids that are far younger and smaller. But if you can squeak out a game or two, savor the victory. Because Dooms day is coming, and coming quickly! Remember. What goes around comes around. Cheaters never prosper. These are real truths, in life. Your days are numbered.

Quit responding to your own posts. You are not fooling anyone.

Long Island kids are heroes. 12yr olds against 17yr olds. It’s like Miracle on Ice every tournament.

Ok gang. Here is the roster from 2016 U19 US team. Same number of MD/DC as NY (including the one upstate) . Age-based selection, no? So what happened to age catching up with the “80% holdbacks” who only get ahead because they are playing kids “two years” younger. Please make this notIntelligent argument end as it’s accurate anyway. https://teamusa.uslacrosse.org/us-under-19-men/us-under-19-men-roster .

Right. Everyone on 2024 teams outside of LI are 17 years old. Way to prove that you guys are not lunatics.

News flash, Leading Edge (acting as US Lacrosse) named themselves number 1 Program in their rankings. Story at 11

Do mid-Atlantic teams have trouble with LI teams? Maybe 1 or 2 LI teams can pose a threat, but the vast majority of LI teams don't compete with the vast majority of Md teams. Outside of Taz and then sometimes WP, what teams from LI are competitive?

well what’s the driving age? Twice last year we saw boys driving themselves out of the parking lot. Once in PA and once in MD.

Assume this is a joke as this is a 2024 thread. Permit is almost 16 yrs old. They would be ineligible after Freshman year of HS at any DC or MD Catholic or private school league if they could drive. Do you guys actually go to games? Not sure there is much of a size discrepancy between the two regions. Legacy’s two big mids last summer and some 91 poles as big as anyone on MLax, BLC, 91, Hawks etc. Equal numbers of smaller attackmen (Mlax’s attachment are quick but not big). Maybe it just makes you sleep better, who knows.

Dude. You are either reading impaired, or you just aint smart! Or, maybe you are one of those private school kids in DC. Regardless, pay attention!

There are a lot of LI teams that are very competitive, against all other on-age teams. If they played Madlax or any MD team for that matter, without their holdbacks, they would give them more than a competitive game. In fact, odds are they would smoke any MD team that is actually on-age.

* * * You are forgetting. Your 2024 teams are what we call 2023 teams (with some 2022's mixed in). * * *

So you are thinking that MD is soooooo competitive at the 2024 level, but there are very few 2024 aged kids in MD 2024 lacrosse!

I know it's confusing for you. Just try to remember... when thinking about 2024 lacrosse in MD, you just subtract 1 year from the grad year, to figure out what grad year the players would be in, if they weren't all holdbacks. For example: MD 2024 Lacrosse Players = 2024 - 1 = 2023 players. That's just a little trick that I use to help me remember. Hope it helps you.

Wow. The MD clubs REALLY do have you people brain washed.

1. Were all of the MD kids on the list, holdbacks???? You don't know, do you.
2. How many MD kids are on the list, 6 - 8? So, in a grade where there are hundreds or even thousands of holdbacks, MD is able to find 6-8 that are good players. And, because there are 6-8 good MD players in a grade, that is somehow justification for holding back every MD kids that ever picked up a stick? Because that is basically what is happening.
3. Or are you trying to say that MD has the same number of holdback players on the U19 Team, as LI does, who are not holdbacks? Not sure how that could be construed as helping your argument.

Obsessed MD parents hold back their kids, because of the notion that will make them successful, which is brought about by the clubs, who tell them it is their ticket to D1, scholarships and status. That plan seems to work pretty well through the youth ages as the kids size makes a significant difference.

It's 8th grade and the boy is 5'8" inches tall and a stud on his club team, since he is still bigger than the other boys, albeit not the best lacrosse skills.

But, what you are missing is, average players will N*E*V*E*R be great players. Good players will N*E*V*E*R be great players. Great players are the ONLY ones that can be great players.

Then puberty happens. BANG! The holdbacks lacrosse career changes forever. Now it's junior year. That 5'8" 8th grader is now all of 5'9" and the smallest kid on the team, with the same basic ability that he had as a youth, which is AVERAGE AT BEST. The boy rides the pines through his HS career.

Remember that little non-holdback kid from his youth team, with the "GREAT" skills?? Well, he is now 6'1" and an unstoppable beast, headed to Hopkins, on a full ride!

Get it now?? If not, you will soon.

What team from maryland, dc, va or any other state in the world, has a winning record against the wolfpack? Answer: None! Nothing close! Pretty embarrassing for all you holdback teams, huh? So what's next? Recruiting 17 and 18 year olds?? I don't care how much older all your teams are, none compare to team 91 wolfpack. None. Zero. Nadda!

So what are you saying? In order for MD to compete with bigger and better LI teams, they have to get kids a year or two older, just to be able to compete? I tell you what, now you are making some sense!

By the way, just for the record, the smallest players on Madlax are their oldest holdbacks. And, you may want to check some of your facts, because last time I checked, Madlax's #24, from the past 6 years, was bigger than ANYONE from anywhere... ON THE PLANET!!!!!

That’s what I’ve been saying right along. The mid-Atlantic is a year, at minimum, behind LI in the sport of lacrosse. This guy from MD obviously is saying exactly the same thing.

These posts have to be from children. So sad that this matters this much to you all. Ya win some, you lose some. If these are from "adults", please stop trying to relive your sad little life.

Competitive? Competitive with who? Other 2024 teams? Then your answer is, there are ALOT of very competitive LI teams. They may not be competitive against 2023 teams disguised as 2024 teams, but against true 2024 teams (you know, the ones that don’t cheat their butt off) they are VERY competitive.

Allow me to translate that post. As an obnoxious mid-Atlantic parent of a 2024 holdback, I have absolutely no defense for my deceptive, dishonest and downright cheating ways. Nor can I explain why LI reigns supreme, in such a dominant manner, in 2024 lacrosse.

Yo. Madlax can’t play anyone without their holdbacks. The sport of lacrosse requires 10 players on the field. There is no where close to 10 non-holdbacks on Madlax. I’d be shocked if they had any.

I know it's confusing for you. Just try to remember... when thinking about 2024 lacrosse in MD, you just subtract 1 year from the grad year, to figure out what grad year the players would be in, if they weren't all holdbacks. For example: MD 2024 Lacrosse Players = 2024 - 1 = 2023 players. That's just a little trick that I use to help me remember. Hope it helps you.





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Yo. Madlax can’t play anyone without their holdbacks. The sport of lacrosse requires 10 players on the field. There is no where close to 10 non-holdbacks on Madlax. I’d be shocked if they had any.
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Show up and PLAY......... Forget your little online rants..... YES we are bigger, stronger, faster and YES OLDER...... and we usually win.......Let it be.

Yo. Madlax can’t play anyone without their holdbacks. The sport of lacrosse requires 10 players on the field. There is no where close to 10 non-holdbacks on Madlax. I’d be shocked if they had any.
[/quote]
Show up and PLAY......... Forget your little online rants..... YES we are bigger, stronger, faster and YES OLDER...... and we usually win.......Let it be.[/quote]

...”usually win”??? Against who?? There is NO team ANYWHERE that has a winning record against Team 91 Wolfpack!! How humiliating for ALL the MD holdback teams and ESPECIALLY the king of the CHEATERS, Madlax DC. Such losers!

Yo. Madlax can’t play anyone without their holdbacks. The sport of lacrosse requires 10 players on the field. There is no where close to 10 non-holdbacks on Madlax. I’d be shocked if they had any.
[/quote]
Show up and PLAY......... Forget your little online rants..... YES we are bigger, stronger, faster and YES OLDER...... and we usually win.......Let it be.[/quote]

Yes, you are probably right. You are “bigger, stronger, faster and YES OLDER”, but what you are not understanding is, Our boys are smaller, weaker, slower and YES YOUNGER, but they are WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY B*E*T*T*E*R than your band of post adolescent cheaters!

There you have it folks! MD and LI are finally in total agreement!!!

Omg. Please make it stop. I have literally witnessed the most mind numbing back and fourth conversation ever. This is like listening to a news channel talk about politics. Cam Md parents go back to your forum and everyone please talk about lacrosse and not holdbacks and stop spewing your wives leftover roast from your mouths? My god you are all a bunch on jack wagons.

Yo. Madlax can’t play anyone without their holdbacks. The sport of lacrosse requires 10 players on the field. There is no where close to 10 non-holdbacks on Madlax. I’d be shocked if they had any.
[/quote]
Show up and PLAY......... Forget your little online rants..... YES we are bigger, stronger, faster and YES OLDER...... and we usually win.......Let it be.[/quote]

I really don’t understand why these MD parents (ok, really it’s just the Madlax parents) rant about beating 2024 teams. 2023 teams are suppose to beat 2024 teams, if they are any good. It’s no achievement. You sound like children, but for the most part I know it’s not. Grow up.

Still no response to this. No answer from any MD or DC parent on why MD and DC teams can’t remotely compete against top LI teams without playing down a year at minimum or even two years. Unbelievable when you think about it. The #2 hot bed for the sport, after LI of course, is completely uncompetitive when playing LI teams of comparable age. Embarrassing to say the least. Nobody from MD DC has any explanation for that.

So true. And it’s going on 6 years now. One would think they would get better at some point. But they haven’t, in 6 years, so no reason to believe they ever will.

They aren’t ever going to get better. It’s because they are so heavily invested in their holdbacks. So what they think is their advantage is actually their liability. Most holdbacks are holdbacks because they need the extra advantages that go along with being a year older, in order to be competitive. Said another way, these players are deficient players, certainly no where near top tier players. Which means they don’t have the tools to ever be a top player. Nothing close. But they get the playing time on these 30 something player teams, so the kids that actually do have potential aren’t developed at an optimal level. Nothing close. As the holdback gets older, they become less and less competitive as their advantages wane. And the younger kids with potential, never reach their potential, since it was not developed over the years. A two edge sword. So ultimately, these holdback teams become less and less competitive over the years. But even before that, these teams struggle with top, yet younger teams. Why? Because these younger, smaller teams are far more skilled. Simply, they are better teams, with far better athletes and far better lacrosse players. It’s top tier teams playing against average teams, that are a year + older. That’s why top LI teams give these true holdback teams everything they can handle and then some, even though they are one to two years younger than these teams.

Sorry to the above LI dads with small boys who are getting left behind. Based on your comments you would think no Maryland area player is ever recruited or successful in college. Lol. Also do your homework, your stud LI players who are contributing at D1 programs almost all are older or PG. facts.