BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

They are a 13U 2024 team. Give them credit for playing up, with the 14U 2024 teams in the HOCO AA.

Let's be real, these rankings are a marketing hammerhead. The only real rankings that matter for this tournament are after the tourney has been played. I stress they only matter for this tournament as the tournament format doesn't lend itself to how the clubs are put together....anywhere.....not one of the teams in that tournament is a team that plays as a primary club year round.

Cheaters. lost coach. Classless group....parents for the most part included. Gloating watching a 14+ year old running rampant on a bunch of 12 year olds. Comical. Not even a high school hero....a middle school hero!!!!

Wrong. My LI team has three kids that don't qualify due to age. They are not part of qualifying or playing obviously. Too bad as two are summer birthdays and just miss out. And yes, we are part of that top 3.

there should be no rankings at all. Its 7th grade lacrosse . Rankings matter in High school. That's it, and all the rankings matter to the schools and clubs..

Absolutely the ALL-TIMEall dumbest post on this site. Ever! Everyone of those clubs are nationally known, primary clubs that have been playing together for five or more years. Stay off the site, imbecile!

Why would rankings only matter in HS and not in MS? That makes no sense. Obviously that comment comes from a parent with a kid that’s not ranked. Rankings definitely matter to the great majority of people. Players like to know how they stack up against the competition. It’s a source of motivation. High achievers like benchmarks as a validation that the time and effort they are putting in to reach their goals, is working. It’s a recognition/reward for high achievement. Rankings definitely matter. That’s why they are done. If nobody cared, there would be no rankings. The people that aren’t in the rankings won’t like them, but I guarantee that these are the people that look at them the most.

In other words, your kids team didn’t make the Ranking. Thanks for clarifying. Better luck next time!

hoco rankings
91
Madlax
looneys
hawks
crabs
blc
next level
breakers

Obviously you are an Express dad. You may want to call for a recount though. Quite sure the number is more than three.

The kids on Madlax aren't shy about owning up to it either. They appear to be proud of the fact that their entire team is holdbacks. How many more did Madlax get this year??

My sons top HOCO team should have 3 players who would miss the cutoff. Sure they’d be competitive with the other teams as they are all year if they went a few boys down, and would certainly demolish most of the teams outside the top 3. Just choose not to go and spend an xtra 50% of our dues to go. I’m sure its an awesome experience for the kids. Who cares who goes or not?

OK, Looney's dad don't get carried away. You all have never been better than BLC or the Hawks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I checked, the organizations pick the tournaments, not the parents. In fact, there is no consultation with the parents at all, is there. In fact, it doesn't matter if parents want to go or not, now does it.

So you really don't "choose" not to go, right?

Truth is, you have more hold backs than you know, as they don't normally wear their birth certificate on their sleeve. If your team had any shot at all of being competitive, without all of your hold backs, your organization would have you in that thing in a heart beat, based solely on the exposure/business opportunity that it represents for the club. They don't care what it costs you. It is completely inconsequential to them.

Remember, I don't care what club your kid is on, every club, like every business is in business to make a profit. Winning that tourney or even just getting to the championship game makes for a very fat bottom line for the club, for years to come.

Make no mistake, "you" and the rest of the parents have no control whether your team goes or not. So, let's just start that post over again, shall we??

SEVEN new ones, this year, is the number.

What does everyone think of crabs 2024. Heard they are improving immensely. Lost tight games over the summer(lost in ot to blc tied express schawljie). They also recently lost by 1 to Brotherly love. They could be a surprise team this year.

It's a shame that the real on-age MD 2024's, aren't able to experience the WSYL. Actually, it goes way beyond the WSYL. What do these kids do? The ones that are too old to be '25 holdbacks and too young to be '23 hold backs. So, they can't be holdbacks. They are at a severe disadvantage, solely because of their birthday, in a crooked industry that exploits every loop hole for the all-might buck.

Agree 100% !! Its ridiculous that we cant rank 12 and 13 years olds! Only ones not wanting ranking are the parents without players on TOP TEAMS ! Have you player hit the wall ! Get on a Top Team !

Frankly, I would like to see ranking all the way down to First Grade. We need a metric to judge our boys and Clubs.

middle school lacrosse is a joke. Come on!! You may be the only ne that thinks it’s competitive. Rankings are for the the clubs to draw kids. Simple as that .

[/quote]

Wrong. My LI team has three kids that don't qualify due to age. They are not part of qualifying or playing obviously. Too bad as two are summer birthdays and just miss out. And yes, we are part of that top 3.[/quote]

So you aren't adding anyone to replace them? I do believe a LI team is more likely to be a pure regular season team because of your later Kindergarten and the skill level, but they are definitely in the minority. I know the LI Express team last year had a couple of borrowed players, I don't think 91 did, not sure about S2S.

As someone who has gone, it's risky to go without the max 25 (23 field and 2 goalies) into a qualifier because if someone gets hurt or has financial issues or any number of other problems it could create a hole for you and if they didn't play in the qualifier, they can't play in Denver....

Absolutely the ALL-TIMEall dumbest post on this site. Ever! Everyone of those clubs are nationally known, primary clubs that have been playing together for five or more years. Stay off the site, imbecile! [/quote]

Clearly you need this spelled out.

1) How many of these nationally known clubs have kids that don't meet the age requirement. Probably 90%
2) How many kids per team do you think don't make the age requirement. Probably 3-5
3) How many kids/team don't go because parents don't want to spend $3K-$5K on a lacrosse tournament?

Clubs will get stud players at key positions from teams that aren't participating. Tri-state runs a separate tryout for their WSYL team, many of the teams from the west are teams consisting of 1 or 2 strong programs. Team Israel is a bunch of kids from all over the U.S. and Israel that will have never played together before Denver.

Trust me if you don't have an elite FO guy and very good goalie you won't fair well.....a smart club would borrow one if they don't have one.

My original point was, these rankings only matter for this tournament and really only matter after the tournament has been played. Its a fun marketing thing for the kids/teams participating to get excited for...nothing else.

Now I'd appreciate an apology, you have hurt my feelings and I am a snowflake.

Clearly you need this spelled out.

1) How many of these nationally known clubs have kids that don't meet the age requirement. Probably 90%
2) How many kids per team do you think don't make the age requirement. Probably 3-5
3) How many kids/team don't go because parents don't want to spend $3K-$5K on a lacrosse tournament?

Clubs will get stud players at key positions from teams that aren't participating. Tri-state runs a separate tryout for their WSYL team, many of the teams from the west are teams consisting of 1 or 2 strong programs. Team Israel is a bunch of kids from all over the U.S. and Israel that will have never played together before Denver.

Trust me if you don't have an elite FO guy and very good goalie you won't fair well.....a smart club would borrow one if they don't have one.

My original point was, these rankings only matter for this tournament and really only matter after the tournament has been played. Its a fun marketing thing for the kids/teams participating to get excited for...nothing else.

Now I'd appreciate an apology, you have hurt my feelings and I am a snowflake.
[/quote]


I think what you are NOW trying to say (now that you have softened your stance, somewhat), in a very roundabout way, is all teams have guest players. Based on the rules of the tournament, that is supposedly not possible. I haven't experienced the tourney so I don't know how that is enforced, by the tourney committee. However, there are many inherent built in safe guards that prevent that from happening.

Many of these clubs know each other EXTREMELY well, especially the better teams. If there are guest players, everyone (coaches and parents) are going to know. Winning the championship is an extremely big prize for the club. Do you not think any coach/club would not blow the whistle immediately upon finding out about such a practice??? The penalty would be disqualification of the club. Is a club going to take that chance?? Can you imagine having all of your parents fly to Denver and then your club is disqualified because of shady behavior?? Such an outcome could easily destroy a team and possibly an entire organization.

Or, a disgruntled parent, due to their child being replaced by one of these guest players, spouts off and that eventually gets back to the committee? That could easily happen.

As a club, you have to consider these very real possibilities. Is the risk worth the reward? Is the risk too great?? Answer: It most definitely is!

And, not all teams have guest players. I'm not familiar with all of the clubs, obviously, but I'm very familiar with the Bandits team and they didn't have any guest players last year, and they won the whole thing.

And your 3-5 holdbacks isn't accurate either. This is obviously a mid-atlantic mind-set, where most of the better 2024 teams are 70%+ holdbacks. Express has three, so you are close there. But, Taz has one. WP has none. I'm sure there are others, just none from the mid-atlantic, obviously.

So your statement... "not one of the teams in that tournament is a team that plays as a primary club year round" is 100% false! Every team that I am aware of, and that is quite a few, "is a team that plays as a primary club year round."

It's worth noting that the WYSL has no skin in the game and independently ranks Cavalier 2024 #16 in the nation and the best in the Mid Atlantic.

Clearly you need this spelled out.

1) How many of these nationally known clubs have kids that don't meet the age requirement. Probably 90%
2) How many kids per team do you think don't make the age requirement. Probably 3-5
3) How many kids/team don't go because parents don't want to spend $3K-$5K on a lacrosse tournament?

Clubs will get stud players at key positions from teams that aren't participating. Tri-state runs a separate tryout for their WSYL team, many of the teams from the west are teams consisting of 1 or 2 strong programs. Team Israel is a bunch of kids from all over the U.S. and Israel that will have never played together before Denver.

Trust me if you don't have an elite FO guy and very good goalie you won't fair well.....a smart club would borrow one if they don't have one.

My original point was, these rankings only matter for this tournament and really only matter after the tournament has been played. Its a fun marketing thing for the kids/teams participating to get excited for...nothing else.

Now I'd appreciate an apology, you have hurt my feelings and I am a snowflake.
[/quote] I agree with you . . A few of the top teams are already getting players on their team from other states.. ITS a joke. Building a team to just win the tournament should not be aloud. no kids from other states should be aloud to play on teams that do no reside in their own state. it is suppose to be teams in this tournament with local players. ITS not a National team tournament. . Once again a reason why lacrosse has its issues.

I think what you are NOW trying to say (now that you have softened your stance, somewhat), in a very roundabout way, is all teams have guest players. Based on the rules of the tournament, that is supposedly not possible. I haven't experienced the tourney so I don't know how that is enforced, by the tourney committee. However, there are many inherent built in safe guards that prevent that from happening.

Many of these clubs know each other EXTREMELY well, especially the better teams. If there are guest players, everyone (coaches and parents) are going to know. Winning the championship is an extremely big prize for the club. Do you not think any coach/club would not blow the whistle immediately upon finding out about such a practice??? The penalty would be disqualification of the club. Is a club going to take that chance?? Can you imagine having all of your parents fly to Denver and then your club is disqualified because of shady behavior?? Such an outcome could easily destroy a team and possibly an entire organization.

Or, a disgruntled parent, due to their child being replaced by one of these guest players, spouts off and that eventually gets back to the committee? That could easily happen.

As a club, you have to consider these very real possibilities. Is the risk worth the reward? Is the risk too great?? Answer: It most definitely is!

And, not all teams have guest players. I'm not familiar with all of the clubs, obviously, but I'm very familiar with the Bandits team and they didn't have any guest players last year, and they won the whole thing.

And your 3-5 holdbacks isn't accurate either. This is obviously a mid-atlantic mind-set, where most of the better 2024 teams are 70%+ holdbacks. Express has three, so you are close there. But, Taz has one. WP has none. I'm sure there are others, just none from the mid-atlantic, obviously.

So your statement... "not one of the teams in that tournament is a team that plays as a primary club year round" is 100% false! Every team that I am aware of, and that is quite a few, "is a team that plays as a primary club year round."



[/quote] you are wrong about that. already 2 teams pullings kids from all around.

Madlax could beat any of the teams on this list. They recently beat Legacy Taz and LI Lxpress

Mad dog west. Ha
they are a joke

Madlax would have made it far and possibly win. Madlax can beat all those long island teams. As for WSYL its just a money grab. Put together a team of kids for one tournament just to win the grand prize. Really! The event isn't even that good.

Any news on crabs 2024. Heard they are really good. Any intel?

Spoken like a true 14U parent, in a 13U league. I can think of a lot of 2023 teams that would do well in the WSYL. Truth is, for a 2023 team, Madlax is NOT good at all. That’s why they have to play down to be competitive. Embarrassing, I would think.

That’s because Madlax is a team of 14 year olds playing a team of 12 year olds. The WSYL is a 13U tourney. Not 14U. Madlax’s Opportunity was last year with the ‘23’s. But they didn’t even try because they knew they wouldn’t get though the qualifier. Very lame to play down for all your games. Sorry, sleezey team. As sleezey an organization as it gets in this business.

I am a Philly guy, thus no horse in the race between this LI vs MD supremacy debate. However, my sons team is AA 2024 and we have played all of the Team 91 MD, BLC, and Madlax teams vs. the Team 91 LI , Legacy, and Express Teams and I can assure you there is no contest. The MD teams are stacked with obvious rec-classes and win by out-sizing their opponents. The LI brand of lacrosse is based on elite stick skills and IQ and is without a doubt superior and they are doing it with kids clearly younger than MD AA Teams.

This is isn't about size, we have some big boys on our team as well that are on age...a 14 year old vs a 12 year just simply moves differently on an athletic field.

Our team is on the list and going. I am not sure who is over age on our team, I think we have a total of three on the whole team that have summer birthdays; however, I believe our whole starting line up is ON age except for one middie and there are kids on age behind him that are as good if not better.

Madlax you aren't technically cheating, simply own up to it, if you are winning, it is because of all the re classing going on.

So you are staking the moral high ground because you have fewer holdbacks? I guess you aren't technically cheating with your 3 or more holdbacks either.

Baltimore area and the private schools are KING of the prefirst/ reclass/holdbacks... Bar NONE !!! DC is trying , but they still dont have the numbers yet.

There are plenty of holdbacks on Philly teams. Get over yourself.

Big difference between an occasion 05 birthday, and purposely going out of your way to stack your team with 14 year old holdbacks, to the extent of basically the entire Madlax team is not on age. You got seven more holdbacks, this year alone. I notice you don't deny it anymore. You can't because it's been verified so many times by Madlax parents and kids... our children get very chummy together and communicate through social media about this and other topics, on an ongoing basis. Kids are very honest. So there are no secrets anymore.

Love how some people feel like they can identify holdbacks just by looking at them. My son is average-sized and on age. Two of his classmates have been about the same size as my son since pre-school but have had huge growth spurts the last 18 months. Now, all of the sudden, they have to hear whispers of being holdbacks because they grew faster, even though they are on age. Not saying that there are not holdbacks and that there is not an advantage. Just saying that many of these larger boys are not holdbacks and the problem is not as extensive as some on this Board want you to believe.

You listen young man, you get off that phone right now and start on your homework! You think I'm joking, just try me! There will be no Fortnite tonight!

This is definitely a kid. Sounds way too intelligent to be a Madlax parent.

I don't recall staking the moral high ground. I think you need to understand the difference dim witted one. There is a difference between a player that happens to have a summer birthday or did the whole Pre First thing resulting in a player that is perhaps 4-7 months older, which is our situation.

A reclass is a family that holds their kid back to distinguish themselves on the lacrosse field. I actually don't have issue with that either that is a personal family choice. Just simply pointing out that the MD Teams are pounding their chests with players that are clearly 12-18 months older than the LI kids, you are not alone, the NE Club Teams rival you in their number of holdbacks.

Don't get worked up over it we go out and do our best and don't complain, just simply stating fact.

Madlax had no chance of fielding a team within the rules. But Next Level was in the same predicament but only with fewer players who were too old. NL borrowed several ML players in order to field an eligible team. Those borrowed players went right back to ML this fall.