BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2023-8th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

Don't you think the zone will become the norm on defense in the future

No, Breakers

Interested in feedback from long-term coaches or experienced parents: Do the kids who have been at the top of the age group over the years tend to remain at the top throughout high school or is it more common to see significant turnover in the top players after puberty? Does turnover tend to occur more with defenders where a big physical kid who is years behind in stick skills can still be really impactful? I understand that the 2023s who have already had their growth spurt are temporarily advantaged but assume late developers will soon catch up. What to expect afterwards? What have you seen?

If your team's main defense is a a zone, you need to find another team. Zone defense does very little, if anything, to develop kids and if your son's coach is running this it is because they either don't know how to or don't care about coaching/developing players.

Someone is going to pipe up and say - but they run zones in HS and college...blah blah blah. The objective is different in HS & College - there they are primarily worried about winning, the coach gets paid to win. In the youth ages the coach should be worried about developing the kids so that they are able to make a HS or College team and be a contributor. Standing around in a 3-3 zone does nothing for your son.

I agree. Development of player is key prior to high school. Zone teaches nothing about how to play defense. All it does is teach players how to grow roots at the youth level.

2022 API Diamondbacks. All zone, all the time. See their regression over the years in HoCo when kids get bigger and can shoot and move the ball vs. a zone. Works really well when kids are young, but if you can't change it up, team figure it out. We'll see what happens with the Hawks 2023.

2015 (6-0) 99 GF 15 GA
2016 (6-0) 56 GF 26 GA
2017 (2-4) 55 GF 66 GA
2018 (1-7) 41 GF 86 GA

Exhibit A - love it.

This is a great question and a nice break from "holdback" and "zone defense" posts. In my experience, (parent and coach) I would say that the top players in an age group do tend to be the top players in HS. I have seen many kids that were great in 8th grade, who I knew were great, now playing on Saturday's for top programs. However this is still a generalization. I have had a chance to watch the careers of a few D1 players and the common denominator for me was that they all worked very hard. They always seem to be the ones that practiced a lot and asked tons of questions. The kid who had his stick in his hand almost all the time. Size is an issue for some positions but there are AA players under 5'10". I think at the highest levels of play there are plenty of great athletes but that is not enough. I think some players are just "gamers" and know how to make plays. Some coaches refer to this as lax IQ. Even at the 2023 age group it is not always the biggest kid who is the best player. I think the players that love the game and work to improve on their own tend to be the ones who will be the top HS players. They are also some of the best players now.

Definitely a different team than Hawks 2023. We will see how it goes, but the trends are different than Diamondbacks 2022

2016 (4-2) 39 GF 26 GA
2017 (4-2) 57 GF 25 GA
2018 (7-0) 98 GF 39 GA

Hawks 2023 went primarily zone in 2018.

Exhibit B

Hawks have been all zone since 2016. Their top players have joined the team in the last two years. They don’t develop talent and the dad coaches play their kids too much. Luckily the FoGo is great, both lefty attacks and righty attack are excellent (no daddy ball all joined in the last two years) and the goalie is fantastic but his father is nuts. They will run away with HOCo again.
All facts

Problem was the zone defense. Defense was never good. Only played zone because they lacked talent and speed on D. Never picked up any good defender cause what talented defender would want to play zone D. If your club plays zone better go find a different team if you want to keep developing your talent.

The new goalie you guys picked up is also really good but unfortunately his dad is nuts as well. Hahaha!!! [/quote]

I wouldn't make the assumption about hoco that fast. New talent on other teams will give them a run for their money - particularly if they aren't developing the kids and sticking with that zone.

I think you can teach kids to play defense in a zone or in a man, but I'm sure everyone on here is smarter than I am. I do think more teams will go to zone defenses with the rule changes.

You're wrong and I am definitely smarter than you.

[/quote]



Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?

If you are referring to NCAA rule changes what does that have to do with youth? Youth leagues/tournaments aren't going to have the resources to manage a shot clock. And they shouldn't. Officiating is bad enough. Yes - these kids are going to learn zone defense/offense when they get to high school and college. But that's when their teams are practicing/playing 6 days a week. Youth teams running zone do so only for a competitive advantage. They know that their opponents aren't competent in running a zone offense because they only see a few times a year. When you only practice 3-4 hours a week you're not going to spend much time on zone offense. Unless your focus is on beating the team that runs zone vs. focusing on fundamentals. Youth game should be about teaching fundamentals and having fun. Ask any defender who played in college whether man or zone is more fun

Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?[/quote]
Hawks goalie dads, there is a thing called Iphones that have a txt feature. You can both txt each other your feelings or continue to have your conversations here and talk about zone defenses. It is clear that this is interesting to two people who kids play goalie. Not so much to others. All youth goalies have good games and bad and playing on a strong team that holds the ball means less shots. None of that will matter in HS so we will see.

Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?[/quote]

Someone’s nervous about losing their title of being “the best in the DMV”!!! Hahaha![/quote]

What does a defender in college have to do with youth. I think you will see the rule in Hoco play.

definitely not wrong

Thanks Perry Mason !

Ask any basketball player if they want to shoot threes or rebound... ask any football player if they want to pass or run the ball... ask any baseball player if they want to swing for a HR or bunt the man over... ask a golfer if he wants to swing away on the range or work on his short game... I hope you get my point. doesn't matter what is more fun.

Not only are you wrong, but you're stubborn too. And I bet your wife is a pig. Must be a hawks dad.

Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?[/quote]
My nosy neighbors 13 year old son told me that the best 2023 goalie is the DC Dog's goalie

"doesn't matter what is more fun" I get your point. You value winning over a young players passion for the game and development.

You don't get it... Kids enjoy winning too. Coaches (some anyway) know what it takes. If you don't like the style of a coach, move on... don't bash the ones who play different styles.

Youth teams always play NCAA rules... 2019 will be no different in HoCo league... 80 second shot clock (20 second clear) will be kept by the referees.

I love winning. My kids do to. I didn't bash any coaches. I think most HS and college coaches would agree about my take on zone defense. Other than that I love the way Hawks 2023 play

you know that from those who run the league or just conjecture?

Can we get a separate zone vs man defense forum?

thank you for your enlightened, uninformed juvenile response

But the NCAA rule (still proposed) requires an on field clock visible to the players. HoCo (and most if not all of the tournaments) will not be able to comply with that rule.

Says the the man of great courage hiding behind an anonymous post.. I hope you have taught your son to respect women as your parents failed to do. Good luck at Hawks tryouts next year... signed proud Hawks RN Dad

What is a Hawks RN dad?

Did I hit a nerve? Truth hurts. Haha!

Not my wife big guy, just an all out ignorant statement by a small mind boy... have a great season on your “elite” B level team.