BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2023 - 7th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

Ohio Resolute's had 2-3 men on the team, there weren't really any kids on any team nearly as big as them. S2S, BBL, BL all about the same size...

Apart from the S2S holdbacks, what really stinks is S2S won the Platinum Cup over Brotherly Love via Braveheart. Awful way to decide a tournament, win or lose. They should just flip a coin, and call the winner, "winner by coin flip". Then we'd all know it literally could have gone either way.

But it's all about the $$$$...let's go, next teams line up, blow the whistle!

TB Panthers
91 Warriors
S2S Seawolves
Outlaws Select
Empire Green

Next tier. Warriors. True Blue. Outlaws. Empire. Express B. Three Village. Igloo B.

Missing anyone competitive?

How about Legacy ?

True Blue is 2-0 against the warriors.

How many holdbacks are on S2S that couldnt play at WSYL qualifier

Apparently not enough to affect their play - they qualified

a lot. that's why they have two teams. One team hold back, and the other team normal age.

What are you talking about. I would gather you know nothing about the team. How can they have a hold back and a regular team. That would mean hey went around LI and recruited every hold back out there to have a full team of them.

How much longer do you want to beat this dead horse ? They are going to Denver with age appropriate kids & are now entering grade appropriate tourneys. Everything legit & above board. Call or write the head coach & maybe he"ll mail you a roster.

When talking about holdbacks in the context of the WSYL, its important to define what you are talking about. In NY, the school age calendar goes from Dec 1 to Nov 30, so for 7th grade in the current year, it would be children born from Dec 1, 2004 to Nov 30, 2005. Therefore, technically, a kid born on Nov 30, 2004 is a "holdback". However, said kid would be eligible for he WSYL, because such uses a Sept 1, 2004 cut off. Thus, for purposes of WSYL-related discussions, some people may be defining holdbacks to include only kids born before Sept 1, 2004.

For the NYC suburbs within NYS, there are very few kids born before Sept 1, 2004 in 7th grade. Its highly unlikely that any LI 2023 team has a sizable amount of kids born before Sept 1, 2004. A lot may have been born after Sept, 2004 but before Dec, 2004, but very few would be age-ineligible for the WSYL. Prime Time has several kids age-ineligible for their WSYL, but I suspect those players are from CT.

Who cares. Get a life already!

Why would you send a roster with kids names and personal info DK?

Solid field at the event but the weather made it a disaster. I watched BL play BBL at 945 at night and that was before our game. The teams than had to turn around and be there at 8am...and hotels where an hour away. The facility is excellent just need to build some hotels within a reasonable distance.

Do you understand the word " sarcasm " ? Lighten up.

Say what you want about the 1 or 2 holdbacks on bandits, express, s2s, primetime and the other teams that are going to Denver, but please don’t compare these teams to Brotherly Love, Crabs. Lax Black etc. who aren’t going to Denver because they couldn’t field a team within age restrictions.

There are ZERO holdbacks on the S2S Team. There are four players, that cannot, and will not be playing in Denver, because they are over the age limit by a range of 2 days to 2 months. None of the boys have been held back or re-classed etc. I know this because my son is on the team.

The Braveheart is a [ChillLaxin] way to end a Tournament, I agree for both sides. However, prior to the Braveheart, they played a 3 minute overtime. The Braveheart went on so long, both teams actually subbed players, because the initial players were exhausted. Each Goalie made 2-3 saves during the Braveheart. It had to end at some point, there were teams waiting to play their next game on the sidelines. Oh and by the way, Brotherly Love reached the Final, by beating Igloo in a Braveheart.

Interestingly enough, I was standing next to and speaking to the mother of the goalie of the Brotherly Love Team, and she wasn't nearly as disappointed as this poster? Get a Life, and stop living through your son...

Wait. So your saying you don’t have holdbacks or reclassified kids, but four kids are not playing because they are over the age limit. So your telling us S2S is outright playing older kids playing down? That’s shady, no?

Does anyone know what the cutoff birth dates were used for the first two wsyl (2015& 2016) ?

Stop living through your yesteryears. Your days have long passed you by.

What grade are those 4 kids in?

If they’re in 7th, they are 2023 eligible but, essentially playing down since most 2023’s are turning 13 this summer while your crew will be 14.

If they’re in 8th, S2S should be playing in 2022 brackets - cheaters.

Super job, S2S. I hope you get great pride beating younger kids - it must make you so proud to relive your pathetic athletic career watching your team cheat all summer. Kids get better playing on age or up, not beating younger kids for T-shirts.

Exactly if they are not of age then they should be in 8th grade not 7th grade.

They are all in 7th grade. Based on birthdays parents have a choice of pushing a kid in K ahead or holding them back (making them the oldest or youngest in a grade). PAL and travel teams go by school year. Until that changes they aren't cheating. Other sports have moved to age based , which would push some of these kids to play up. The WSYL has moved to age based. All of S2S kids that played in the qualifier were of "legal" age based on the rules. A kid with a Jan birthday will be in the same grade as a kid with an August birthday but is almost 7 months older. Cheating? Nope. Just because they are older doesn't always mean they are better. The Recon team that played this past weekend had huge 8th graders (several of them) and they lost every game. Stop making excuses why your kids team lost or can't compete with these teams. The S2S is talented. If your kid is so good try out. Otherwise stop whining!

It's the same excuse that Laxachusetts and Crabs use. "So what if he is 15, he's in 7th grade..."

Saw 3 village play this weekend they looked really good.

In 2015 it was 9/1
In 2016 it was 5/1
In 2017 it went back to 9/1 because it is supposed to be a U 13 Tournament.

In 2016 Legacy loaded their team with 14 year old's and killed everybody, they did not cheat but it was not the spirit of the WSYL.

We didn't go but heard Bech Lax was terrible. Evenly matched teams but the games were never played. Hope some people get their money back. 9'1 has a coach that was pulled out of the crowd to help. How can a club charge thousands of dollars to have a volunteer coach? Havent heard complaining about the guy but why cant Mark M get qualified people on one of his "elite" teams?

Stop crying about the age of 7th and 8th graders. Most kids in 7th grade turn 13 during there 7th grade year. Are you going to complain in two year that the kids in high school are to big and your son cannot play with them because they have better skill and are more athletic? This is pathetic, take your kids off the lacrosse field if you are so worried about the sizes and ages of the kids.

i find it ironic that everybody is screaming about age, especially since the older kids on the teams aren’t always the bigger and stronger kids. It all comes down to one variable- puberty. And sorry folks, the age of onset for puberty does not live by the age based rules. The haters all want to get rid of the big strong kids because their kids haven’t grown yet, but you will only partially solve that problem with enforcing age based rules. All the biggest and strongest kids on my team are age appropriate.

Poor comparison. There are no 15 yr
old 7th graders playing on L.I. Beside the fact that the L.I. teams handily defeated both of the above named teams this past weekend. It's talent over age.

Agreed. Change the age to whatever you want - the top 4 teams will still be the top 4 teams. Moving one or two kids up or down a grade will change nothing

“Stop crying about the age of 7th and 8th graders”, says the parent of the kid who has always played against younger kids. And once you go to the straw man argument about HS lax, everyone knows you are wrong. HS sports are HS sports. No one is arguing HS sports should be based on age. Youth sports, though, are different. Grade based youth sports proponents are like flat earthers. They keep pushing a position that everyone knows has no merit. The bottom line is that you have spent the last several years living in fear that youth lax would go to age based and force your kid to play against kids his own age. Luckily for you, any switch will come after your kid is done with youth sports.
There is no objective argument that favors grade based youth sports over age based youth sports. It persists in youth lacrosse because the club level is controlled by a small number of guys who own the major clubs and run the biggest tournaments, and these guys, with some enabling from college coaches, are making money and monopolizing the top talent, and they fear losing this if they make a change.

Do you really believe that a kid born in July or August has a tremendous advantage over a kid born in Sept. or Oct. Let your kid play PAL & call it a day.

True Blue top team in this tier, hands down.

True Blue top team in this tier, hands down.

There is simply no downside to switching to an age based system in youth lax. The exceptional athlete that is currently on age, but enjoys competing against the older holdbacks can still be challenged by the older kids by choosing to play up (a 2007 can play with the 2006s).

As for the puberty argument, yes, on age kids who hit puberty early have an advantage, but this advantage is limited to physical ability. They are still age appropriate mentally, and this is a big part of the game. An age based system eliminates, though, the kids that are BOTH well into puberty and older. These are the kids who really don’t belong with the younger kids.

And when arguing for a change in a system of any kind, you do not have to prove that the new system is perfect. You just have to prove that it is better than the current system. Of course an age based system will have big and fast kids who hit puberty early. But it will have less of these kids, and hence will be better. And of course a January bday will have an advantage over a December bday, but this will be the maximum advantage seen. A grade based system with holdbacks often sees kids with a nearly 2 year advantage. The former will be better than the later

When are any of you going to understand that your kids could care less about scores of old games? Less than your kids, highschool and college coaches aren’t checking the tourney machine almanac and penalty box minute sheet. You guys seriously ruin a youth sport. All of you.

How Stupid are You?

There are four players that do not qualify for Denver, but are perfectly fine for Grade Appropriate Events, and are within the dates for New York State Schools, (started kindergarten at age 5).

I don't know how to make it any clearer. No Holdbacks (started school late), or Re-Classified (repeated a grade).

Before you spend your time bitching and moaning on this thread, at least do your research to understand what the terms you are using mean!