BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums PENNSYLVANIA LACROSSE PENNSYLVANIA FORUM Boys 2023

The NLF on ESPN is a joke. The NLF is a closed organization and actively blackballs competitive clubs in each of the founding regions. There is NO WAY ESPN can support their antics.

Not sure that I agree, US Lacrosse nationals and NLF have their own inherent problems. US Lacrosse has ridiculous structure to earn qualifying points, NLF is a closed system, and both will be forever plagued by the holdback issue. I am not suggesting that I am for or against holdbacks, but it is the one issue that generates the most debate in youth lacrosse. While far from perfect, at this point WSYL seems to have the most workable formula. Not saying that WSYL is going to last forever, but I do not see it going away so fast.

US Lacrosse nationals is moving to AGE based. Per their rules, for the 2023s it is 1U3 and players must be born on or after 9/1/2004. There is an age exception for this year that allows up to 5 players to be non-compliant provided they are no more than 6 months out of compliance. Basically they must be in 7th grade and up to 5 can be born between 4/1/2004 and 8/31/2004. The rest have to be born 9/1/2004 or later.

Seems to me that US Lacrosse is doing a pretty good job of addressing the holdback "issue".

Here's the age eligibility from the US Lacrosse web site:

1. In 2017-18 at US Lacrosse qualifiers, roster age rules for teams in the US Lacrosse qualifying divisions shall be at the discretion of the event operator.

Roster Requirements for US Lacrosse Nationals Eligibility Rules – U.S. Teams

All players must be US Lacrosse Members and must be age-verified through the US Lacrosse age- verification system 7 days prior to the start of US Lacrosse Nationals.
All players must compete with their team or club on a regular basis. Minimum requirements are that players must compete with their team/program for at least two tournaments in the preceding 12 months leading up to US Lacrosse Nationals, or in a seasonal league.
If a player is otherwise eligible to compete in US Lacrosse Nationals but has been unable to compete in two tournaments in the preceding year for his or her club due to documented medical circumstances, that player may be allowed to participate in US Lacrosse Nationals at the sole discretion of US Lacrosse.
All players competing in the 12U division must have been born on or after 9/1/2005.
All players competing in the 13U division must have been born on or after 9/1/2004.
All players competing in the 14U division must have been born on or after 9/1/2003.
The suggested roster size for boys teams is minimum 18 total players and a minimum of two goalies at all times. The suggested roster size for girls teams is minimum 16 total players and a minimum of two goalies at all times.
Rosters may not be modified after submission of the official roster. The only permitted roster modification after submission of the final roster will be the replacement of an injured goalie with another goalie with medical documentation and US Lacrosse approval.
Any team in violation of the above roster rules will forfeit all games in which the ineligible player has participated and any title received by the team.
Any team that forfeits a game during the tournament will be ineligible to advance to the playoffs.

Roster Age Exceptions for the 2018 Nationals

One major goal of US Lacrosse Nationals is to bridge the gap between US Lacrosse’s age- segmentation policies and the widespread current practices in the lacrosse club and lacrosse event markets.
Currently age-divisions at club events are almost exclusively grade-based.
Over the next few years, US Lacrosse Nationals will fully incorporate US Lacrosse’s age-segmentation standards, however, in order to accommodate the ways clubs are currently structured, and to avoid needlessly excluding grade-eligible players who have competed with their club teams throughout the year from competing in Nationals, the 2018 Nationals will provide a limited roster age exception policy.
The 2018 Roster Age Exception policy is as follows: a team competing at the 2018 US Lacrosse Nationals may field up to five players who do not comply with the birthdate guidelines of Sections B.4-6 above, provided i) that the players meet the previously stated club participation requirement; ii) that those players were born not more than six months earlier than the birthdate cutoff for their division, and iii) that the player is in the scholastic grade that corresponds to their respective division. The Corresponding Grade for each division is:
12U, 2017-18 school year grade six
13U, 2017-18 school year grade seven
14U, 2017-18 school year grade eight
A player’s future desire to take a post-grad year is irrelevant to the question of what grade that player was actually in for the 2017-18 school year.
The 2018 Roster-Age Exception policy is in place for 2018 only. Is shall be evaluated during and after the year, and changes shall be proposed for 2019 and beyond as US Lacrosse Nationals seeks to move towards full compliance with US Lacrosse age-segmentation policies.

Too late.

At least half of the Zeus team isn't age eligible for the WSYL so why would you think that the 2024 team is any different?

In my opinion True Illinois 2023AA is too low at 6. These boys are all true 13U players, no regrades. What is fact and not opinion is that they beat Team 91 twice in one day at Naptown (while their coach lost his mind and acted like a giant d-bag.) Once in pool play with a thrilling comeback victory 7-6 scoring with 10 seconds left, and a slow death strangling of their zone defense, in the championship game winning 7-1. That team is ranked #1? True 2023AA beat L.I. Express in MA the weekend before. They destroyed Tri-State twice by double digit goals in two tournaments. Mad Dog West, they have never played, but our boys just beat Mustangs from TX at Sandstorm, for the Championship in 2023 there, and they mopped the floor with Mad Dog West in semifinal. Igloo, they haven't played. No opinion on their spot in the rankings. I realize there is no respect for Midwest lacrosse on the east coast, but these boys have stacked wins going undefeated all summer playing:

Annapolis Hawks--blasted them the first time, beat them by 4 at Naptown
Tri-State--blasted them both times
Brotherly Love--5-0 for the Championship
Bethesda--5 goal win
Team Carolina--5 goal win
L.I. Express--1 goal win
Team 91--1 goal win and a 6 goal win later that day for the Championship
Laxachussetts--1 goal win for the Championship

I forget the others, they played a friendly round robin against ACS/Crabs and L.I.E. in November. Beat ACS and L.I.E. and drubbed MD Wolfpack 2022 on day one, day two they lost to ACS and LIE. It was a weekend of great competition. They are going to the World Series in July...hopefully their game will speak for itself.

Sure they are all legit U13..they are a lot like Madlax at 2024, if you take that one huge MF off the team they are average.

If it is the exact same team that played Naptown last summer, they will have a good run if they are all age eligible...but keep in mind that some of the the teams you reference above have different WSYL teams

There is no way Ture doesn't have holdbacks. They had kids with more hair on their legs than most men. Unless the kids hit puberty in 5th grade they have a few kids that will not be at WSYL.

That said they are well coached but without the big middie and the one that hit puberty at 8 years-old they are not beating Team 91.

Looking forward to the qualifiers and clearing all the age talk up.

True will not be relevant with on age kids, thanks for the 2017 summer summary, you still working on the winter update?

Mesa playing in the B bracket at NXT? What is the point?

Zero point and why would NXT let that happen? There is a reason they have AA and A brackets, if they aren't going to play in the correct spot then why have the brackets?!

There's no way it's the exact same team, and I have friends who play for True and know how they operate. Our 2023 former teammate played as a 2024 for Naptown.

They are in Group 3 which appears to be the group for those that registered late - like so late the brackets had already been set.

There should be no "Group 3" and to be honest, if they registered late they should not admitted. But, then again, it is all about the mighty buck

NXT dropped the ball as did Mesa
What happens when one of Mesa’s 14 year olds hurts a 12 year on The Freedom B team or RR?

I heard Tristate dropped out and Mesa was asked to fill in for some games. Hard to fault them for that.

Now they can certainly bring more of their B team next time.

NXT is a full time organization, they could have easily reworked the schedule to make sure that AA is playing in AA and A is playing in A. I don't care who dropped out. Mesa should not have been playing in the A division period.

Maybe Mesa wasn't entirely truthful about how good their team was... it's tough to say without knowing all of the facts.

Our club has still really be enjoying the league. I see this thing getting even bigger next year

Not true

Proven fact embrace it and don't lie about it, everyone has seen the birthdates from WSYL.
Many of the BL kids are older, so what, it doesn't mean they aren't great players and they are all in 7th grade so they aren't doing anything wrong. People please deal with it and stop crying about it.

Ok. I'll dry my tears. Proven fact? Show me the the birth dates of the 50%, including the stats of those "better" players with summer birthday's. And, since all teams are held to the same standard, why is age a point people like yourself always bring up? As you said, "they aren't doing anything wrong". Are other teams too "noble" to allow qualified, slightly older, 7th graders on their teams. "Sorry son, you could be on our team, but you are a few months older and we don't want to deal with the controversy so please find another club." Please.

I thought the True team that played in Naptown and beat 91 was a National team...How can they play at WSYL?

It's amazing how many times this question has been asked and answered...they just can't have any kids born before 9/1/2004 for the WSYL team....if they have players born before 9/1/2004, those kids do not play on the WSYL team

It's not that True team.. The holdbacks are gone and everyone has to be within 100 miles of each other. Never going to happen, they will lose to Team Israel.

The WSYL has turned a blind eye to the 100 mile rule. Look at WCS, they are based and practice in San Diego and have kids from their LA club on the team which is over 100 miles away.

How did Philly area teams do in WSYL east qualifier? Any teams that will contend for championship?

Only Philly team was Big 5, they took second place. If you include the Jersey teams as part of the group, Tristate took third and BBL took fourth. Hard to really judge how teams will do in Denver based the qualifier results. Yes, Next Level overpowered Big 5 for the championship, but there were some close games between the top four that could have gone either way. Plus, teams will have a lot more practice time together before Denver, especially after a brutal winter. Top Long Island teams will pose a big challenge either way.

one local team did well in a really weak region, good defense, no offense. Got smoked by only MD team as they tend to be too old. No shot at contension, North region and True will dominate.

No.

Team 5 and Tristate from our area are heading to Denver.
Next Level, BBL and Saltwater also from qualifiers

Just curious, were you at any of the qualifiers...did you see True, or any other WSYL team, play in a qualifier

The Pa teams have no shot out there unfortunately. They will be lucky to score against the good teams. Had better people been in charge of creating a local team they might have gotten more talent.

Says a parent who's kid isn't on the team...I'm going to Denver. Will be the a great experience for my son!! We played well but not great but once we start practicing our team will stand a shot. Have some HOMETOWN PRIDE!

Stop wasting your time responding to a disgruntled parent...enjoy the trip, I certainly will

The time and money waster is the series itself. There will be one jubilant team that returns from Denver. The remaining kids will wonder why they worked so hard and traveled so far to loose to teams many have played regionally. They won't be on TV and they'll have to listen to their parents talk to them about the importance of the "experience" and losing gracefully. As if the club sport doesn't revolve around the win. Sure, enjoy the trip, but your smugness doesn't make this experience a good one for your kid. You've bought into it and as a result, you have been had.

Unfortunately the top talent in philly can not play for team 5 because their too old. Most those kids you see that are 2023's that are at the top are also the oldest kids in philly

At some point you will realize that nobody on this forum cares about your opinion on the issue. Also, if your son is going to question the meaning of life because he didn't win a tournament, perhaps lacrosse, or any other sport, is not for your son. Putting aside the travel and cost, your philosophy is ridiculous, why travel to any tournament if your are not going to win. Go ask any parent or player that went to Denver in the past about their experience, you will probably not find one that wouldn't do it again given the the chance. I respect your decision not to go to the tournament (if it was actually a choice or maybe your son did not make a team), so respect those that decide that they want to be a part of the tournament.