BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2023 - 7th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

You put your team into a tournament like this even though there is not chance of winning because the team gets to play against really good competition. For some it can be a deflating experience. For a coach, child or parent it is an opportunity to measure themselves against the best to see what they are doing well and where they need to improve. Some coaches walk away saying "we did okay but we need to improve on this or that in order to be competitive". Some kids walk away thinking " I was able to stop the best attack player or I beat a great defender". This gives the kid the confidence to continue playing and working to be better. It's not always about winning. If you are not one of the top six you can choose to look at the weekend as a failure or you can take the small victories achieved and build on it for your kids future success. Winning is great but if you never lose you will not learn anything.

[quote=Anonymous]Think his ego got checked this weekend. Luckily they didn't have to play Igloo, Express or Bandits. Maybe now all the "we are a top AA team" stuff can go away. You're a good team but to compare yourselves to the top of this age group is crazy.[/quote

If it was warmer out we would of been able to run our offense better, then everyone would have seen what TB could really do, watch out for TB when the weather conditions are more favorable.

No surprise there. Parents would be appalled if they heard half of what he says to the kids on his own sideline

6 grand for your family. Don’t forget now all the players will be chipping in to pay full freight for their coaches airfare, hotel, meals etc More like 10 or 12 grand when all the bills are paid. And don’t forget the scholarship kids......

Outlaws is officially a "B" team. They really need to stop engaging the kids in this type of beating.

There were too many balls on the end lines. They prepared for not have any extra balls on end lines. Also it was cloudy out, they prepared for having the son in their eyes the whole game. Those are some of their regular tournament excuses.

Which coach was it?

So are they taking 6 teams from the North? What were the final rankings?

That's one theory, but if all coaches thought that way, obviously all don't, there would of been many more teams at the qualifier. Future success is only speculation, but in the here and now, I can guarantee the six top teams were; committed, prepared, made changes during tryouts, and sold on their coach's overall plan as a team. But don't lead your group into battle if you know they will be over matched, if so in the end your the only one to blame.

Perfectly stated!

Congrats to the top 4 li teams that qualified for WSYL this weekend! All hard working ,dedicated, talented boys and coaching staffs! Good luck to all in Denver and make it all Long Island final 4!

-------------
One thing I heard again and again this weekend that it was great to see REAL 7th graders playing against one another. Every team had some big kids, small kids and a lot of medium sized kids. No old kids tilting things. It showed which teams and programs rely on their holdbacks. A few teams surprised with how well they did while others were overrated. No doubt best 6 qualified. No doubt best 2 were in the finals. No doubt best won.

If your kid played in this tourney i don't see how you don't lobby for age restrictions in club lacrosse. Why go back to incorporating holdbacks this summer for these clubs?

Game of the day: PT vs S2S.

As for overly-aggro coaches, every team seemed to have them. I don't mind it. Top teams all have multiple coaches pushing these kids and the kids respond to it. I think some coaches say/yell/scream many more negative things than actually coach and they seemed to be on teams who didn't qualify. Their frustration consumed them and they come off as pathetic. Those are the wannabes who need a reality check cuz their team record reflected their team's reality.

Agree with everything you said as well as original posting... PT vs S2S was a great game to watch!

What agenda are you pushing? You are not making sense and you are unnecessarily disparaging programs and coaches where the team didn't make it as a qualifier. I am happy for you that your kid made the qualifier and I can compliment you without having to put an individual or a program down. Up until your post, I have been pleasantly surprised in most of the comments. Some comments about TB coach being aggressive but they are probably the first to agree and the parents on that team don't seem to mind so its not your problem. You make these generic comments that are dumb and demonstrative of your inability to put together an intelligent thought. If you can't add value to the discussion then stay away.

While it was exponentially better than playing MD, FLA, PA and Mass teams with their 50% holdback rosters, let's be honest, very few teams there were completely made up of 7th graders (REAL 7th graders). There were teams constructed for this tournament and there were 7th grade team. Express had multiple 8th graders, Igloo did, Legacy did, Prime Time did, Preds, Eclipse and Express North did. And, all of the 8th graders on the teams were impact players that don't normally play on those teams. With that being said, they were all well within the rules to bring those players on the team (provided they play in at least 2 tournaments that they are entered into the 2022 bracket before the WSYL in Denver). Therein lies the problem. No event is going to be completely legit until the sport goes completely age-based. For example, are those teams playing those rosters all season in grade based tourneys? Are they playing in NLF events? Laxfest? Is that justifiable? Or is it cheating because they're 2022's playing in a 2023 bracket? It was definitely a step in the right direction though; of that we can all agree; however, more needs to be done. Hopefully more people will recognize the benefits of age-based events moving forward.

If your kids team had qualified , I'm sure you would be all in for Denver.

If your kids team had qualified , I'm sure you would be all in for Denver.

While it was exponentially better than playing MD, FLA, PA and Mass teams with their 50% holdback rosters, let's be honest, very few teams there were completely made up of 7th graders (REAL 7th graders). There were teams constructed for this tournament and there were 7th grade team. Express had multiple 8th graders, Igloo did, Legacy did, Prime Time did, Preds, Eclipse and Express North did. And, all of the 8th graders on the teams were impact players that don't normally play on those teams. With that being said, they were all well within the rules to bring those players on the team (provided they play in at least 2 tournaments that they are entered into the 2022 bracket before the WSYL in Denver). Therein lies the problem. No event is going to be completely legit until the sport goes completely age-based. For example, are those teams playing those rosters all season in grade based tourneys? Are they playing in NLF events? Laxfest? Is that justifiable? Or is it cheating because they're 2022's playing in a 2023 bracket? It was definitely a step in the right direction though; of that we can all agree; however, more needs to be done. Hopefully more people will recognize the benefits of age-based events moving forward.
[/quote]

Please do a better job fact checking. Not all those teams have 8th graders, it really delegitimizes your argument.

Express did not have multiple 8th graders on their roster - get your facts straight - there were two (2) 8th graders. You got an age based tourney now you want an age/grade based tourney . Stop complaining & making excuses as to why your sons' team can't compete.

Please do a better job fact checking. Not all those teams have 8th graders, it really delegitimizes your argument.
[/quote]
Who cares. Its not grade based. It age based. You can have a 10th grader on the roster if he meets the age.

Please do a better job fact checking. Not all those teams have 8th graders, it really delegitimizes your argument.
[/quote]
I gather your sons' team lost to some of the above teams & you need an excuse for their poor performance.

One player would be singular. Two players would be multiple. And, those two were the best players on the field. I'm perfectly fine with the way my son's team performed and how is has performed in the past. I'm not making excuses for losses. But to those parents claiming that it was great to see true 7th graders playing against one another, they are likely avoiding the reality that many teams there were playing with multiple 8th graders. For the record, I'm 100% in favor of age based lacrosse. But, when the majority of the teams in the area are grade based, it's very difficult to do. Like I said, if those teams now contain 8th graders because they are brought in to compete in the WSYL, then they can't play in 2023 brackets at tournaments this season. Are you willing to play in 2022 brackets until July 4th and concede the majority of the tournaments this season to compete in Denver? Or will those teams just play their 8th graders against 7th graders and say it's fine because there are "only 2"? Will that be acceptable in your eyes because it fits your agenda? Again, I'm not, nor was I before, complaining about the teams. I'm explaining the constraints of the current system.

Achually, you just proved his point correct with your reply. You are saying 2 players, that defines “multiple”, which is his point. 2 2022’s on a roster can make a huge difference. Think running them both at midfield for half the game. CAn help you control and dictate the game.

That is the dumbest thing I have heard. This is youth lacrosse and not a battle. If that were the case then most college teams shouldn't bother putting a program together because they know they won't make the NCAA tournament. You probably shouldn't bother going to work because I can pretty much g'tee you are not the top 6 in what you do. Mind your own business and don't raise our sons for us. Our kids may not be on the top 6 teams and that is okay don't tell my kid to give up and to measure his ability based on one tournament.

By the way, i have learned over the years, the biggest instigators on this site tend to be parents of kids that don't get much playing time on the top teams. This sounds like you and your justification for keeping your son on a top team even though he is not playing that much. You may point to a ton of stats and say he scored x # of goals this tournament but it was probably garbage time. There are going to be kids on the teams that did not qualify that will blow the doors off your kid, if not now then in a couple years because they are actually playing.

There are so many flaws with this post, grammar notwithstanding, that it pained me to read it. Essentially, you're (note the spelling) saying that if a team can't win then it has no business playing? Your (see the difference in the spelling?) ignorance is truly mind boggling. I'm assuming that your son plays for the Bandits, because otherwise, by your rationale, you would not have been in that tournament. If that is in fact true, I certainly hope he's not one of those tiny kids with the fat, short dads, because they are going nowhere in the long term. You should record and enjoy every moment of "the here and now", because you won't have much more. That team is a system of players with superb coaching. Most of the players are replaceable part of the machine. The lefty attack and the faceoff middie are 80% responsible for the team's success... the other 10% is credited to the coaching. Just like Crush, a whole bunch of the small kids will be left uncommitted when the wheel stops turning.

And if he doesn't play for the Bandits, then maybe you need to reevaluate your theory, because it's idiotic.

It should be a great event in Denver but will not be an all LI affair. I do think a LI team will win but Next Level and True will be in the final four and one of those two will be in the finals v. most likely 91.

Bring them on, cant wait.

Incredible amount of TB negativity after this tournament. Teams that beat TB couldn’t be bothered posting about what’s in the rear view, which leads me to believe it’s sour grapes from teams they beat or former players that couldn’t get minutes. The best teams won. No doubt about it. Nobody is making excuses from this team, so focus on your own inadequacies and stop with the nonsense.

Scroll back a few pages and read what the TB dads were spewing. People like that make it easy to dislike a team. When they get showed up like they did this weekend it has a little bit of satisfaction attached. As for being in the rear view....the top teams don't care. They are going to be winning in Denver! TB's ship has sailed.

My "old kid" is one of the smallest on his team....no puberty yet and a "real 7th grader".....but sorry son....your aged out. AGAIN, US Lacrosse needs to get its ducks in a row. Decide once and for all how to govern the youth program.....
Just read the USA Hockey handbook already.....2004,2005,2006. you get it right......

Why all this attention about TB. Program is bottom tier at best in my opinion. Minor leagues...

TB parents seemed to think they were going to dominate and be at the top for Denver. Funny to watch these days beat their chests only to get knocked down when reality hits. I am sure they will be back to beat their chests again when they dominate the B bracket.

The problem with that argument is that each state has a different cut off for grades. NY is Dec 1st, Maryland and Mass are Sep 1st, It does not matter the grader the kid is in, only his birthday and ability. Having a kid born in September 04 (2023 in MD and Mass) and a Nov 05(NY) is huge, but not unfair. NY State Ed is the bad guy here.. Do what US Soccer did, birth year only.. I believe hockey already does this. This tournament is the only way to get a true age based national champion. Its 7th grade so not really that important.

TB is definitely not bottom tier, we just had a bad 2nd day, beside the top 4 we are one of the top teams.

I'm not sure I understand. Is your son a "real 7th grader"? As in, was he born between 12/1/04 and 11/30/05? Because in NY, that's the criteria for 7th grade. If he is a holdback, that's fine, but he wouldn't be considered a true 7th grader. I know that people on LI, for the most part, don't hold their kids back for lax. They hold them back because they are not physically, emotionally or developmentally ready to begin school. It's extremely common and the only people who have a problem with it are crazy lax parents. For the record, I'm with you 100% on ending this garbage. Find a criteria and stick to it. The problem is that people are looking to US Lacrosse to dictate and uphold the rules, but hey have as much authority as my grandma.

I saw on the MD board that people were trashing a top team, Annapolis Hawks, for switching to a zone defense. What teams run a zone now? What are your feelings playing for a team that runs a zone and playing against them? I think Empire, Igloo, TB run a zone. Bandits too, but I think they run a backer zone. What are your thoughts?

I think you should worry more about the Math and English portion of your son's education rather than scouting out 7th grade lacrosse defensive schemes.

In a few years ALL this crap will be a thing of the past! Nothing is going to change, why would it. Plenty of money is being made by the Lax Gods...

Thanks for the advice, but he's already doing great in school. I was just trying to post something that I was curious about and that didn't involve trashing teams, parents or players. I'm hoping to hear some pros and cons and engage in a respectful exchange of opinions. Maybe you should follow my lead.

Triangle and Diamond Zone is the best.