BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2023 - 7th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

According to my son HHH won 11-9 but I wasn't there so cant verify.

Sorry that is posted There game against Express isn’t

Legacy's website is down. Did they change ownership this weekend?

correct, HHH did win 11-9.

"You're"

yes 91 owns now

They merged organizations with the Outlaws

Website is up and running. Has been too. Have no idea what you are talking about.

Someone forgot to tell WP

Not a chance. No way would we ever merge with an obsolete club.

that's funny, that any outlaw person would say that. Talk about Obsolete!!!!!

Now THAT'S funny!

Diude, don’t reply to this anymore. It’s the same parent who’s kid was on legacy, left because of not playing, then went to the outlaws and left for same reason. He is bitter person a keeps writing the same legacy and outlaw stuff over and over.

The Outlaws and Legacy are prime examples of what is wrong with Long Island club lacrosse. Both teams have a hard time beating the second teams for 91 or Express. They market themselves as A teams, but rarely compete well in A team tournaments. The Outlaws, specifically, are a team with some very good players. But, for some reason, they can not beat the Warriors or True Blue and they lost to 2024 Wolfpack. The organization can not hold on to quality players. Igloo and Express A have key players that used to be Outlaws. The coach in this age group seems like a good guy. He coached at Walt Whitman. The D coach seems good too. Why can't they get to the next level?

answer: it's because of the coaching, the ownership is difficult to deal with, disorganized, and couldn't give a rats [ChillLaxin]about their players.

Diude, don’t reply to this anymore. It’s the same parent who’s kid was on legacy, left because of not playing, then went to the outlaws and left for same reason. He is bitter person a keeps writing the same legacy and outlaw stuff over and over. [/quote]

The Outlaws and Legacy are prime examples of what is wrong with Long Island club lacrosse. Both teams have a hard time beating the second teams for 91 or Express. They market themselves as A teams, but rarely compete well in A team tournaments. The Outlaws, specifically, are a team with some very good players. But, for some reason, they can not beat the Warriors or True Blue and they lost to 2024 Wolfpack. The organization can not hold on to quality players. Igloo and Express A have key players that used to be Outlaws. The coach in this age group seems like a good guy. He coached at Walt Whitman. The D coach seems good too. Why can't they get to the next level? [/quote]

answer: it's because of the coaching, the ownership is difficult to deal with, disorganized, and couldn't give a rats about their players.
[/quote]

The previous post was extremely well thought out and pretty accurate. The last post is just another stunad who doesn't have a clue.

I’d rather be playing on Legacy or Outlaws than sitting and watching like the kids on the bottom half of Express and 91’s AA’ and ‘A’ teams.

When organizations have a difficult time retaining 'quality" players, take a look at ownership and coaching. Rightly so, if parents are willing to shell out hard earned money, and time in order for their child to play on a club team, owners/coaches in direct line with the parents must have the skill set dealing with the consumer (parents.)

Well thought out and articulated post to describe the demise of the club listed above. If it weren't better elsewhere the kids would be coming back. The CEO and management need to step down to stop the bleeding.

If the ownership has no integrity, this just flows down the organizational chart. Any self-respecting coach will eventually leave a program if they have no confidence in the people that they work for. My son plays for an out of state program, so no loyalty to any of the clubs being discussed. While others may disagree, I believe that my son plays for the best 2023 in our area, and despite being asked to join other teams, I stick with our club because I believe that the directors and coaches are honest and decent people. I feel that they are looking out for the best interest of my son, there is a lot to be said for that. I am not naive enough to think that they not also out to make a buck, but I have no issue paying the fees because of my perception of the program. No director or coach from our program walks around with a holier than thou attitude, and they have a remarkable bond with the players. I believe that a lot of this has to do with not only assessing a players talent during tryouts, but attitude as well. While player's jumping ship for greener pastures is inevitable, we see very little changeover year-to-year. While that may be attributable to the overall success of the club's teams, that speaks volumes for the program.

This is true. Make no mistake about it many kids who on the top three or four teams that don't play and sit on the bench many times can not make another team who are considered in the top 5 or 6 on Long Island. This is especially so as the kids get older. Years of sitting on the bench financing the top ten to 14 kids playing time on the best teams causes the bench players skills to lessen while kids playing on other teams get better. Each parent has to make a choice what is best for thier kid. There are reasons to sit on the bench for a team like Express if the kid is in Catholic school. It may be a valid reason it may not. There may be reasons to sit on the bench for the 91 teams. Everyone has different circumstances and we make choices for difetent reasons. Just help your kid make the best choice for him and don't let it be ego driven. Unfortunately many choices are based on ego and not in the best interest of the player.

I love most of the recent posts. People giving honest opinions on what's right or wrong with youth lacrosse without bashing specific programs. Each of the programs have their perceived strengths and weaknesses. Some programs have better coaching, training, tournament selection, etc. You want to bring up directors that is fine but for all the negative things said about Chanachuk, Brennan or the others, there are many more positive things to say about them. Before bashing them, try having an actual conversation and then make a determination. Don't criticize them for making money. Who wouldn't want to make money being involved with a sport you love.

Maybe everyone has turned the corner and the kids can get down to playing lacrosse. It gets more fun as they get older and hopefully there will be more parity. If not this year then next year but it will eventually happen.

Now see, you personally named 2 club directors along with giving them your kudos. But before that, you say to others, don't bash organizations. Well, I've had personal dealing with only one of them, and this person along with some of his coaches should not be interacting with parents/consumers. I know in this age group they have also had huge turn overs on both teams. So, I along with many other parents decided to take our money elsewhere. It's not one size fits all, and don't let some directors/coaches put the fear of God in you, leading you to believe their club is the only show in town for your son.

All this means is your set of circumstances were not a good fit for this club. There are many who's circumstances are a perfect fit. As consumers we have to do our research and pick the right club. I personally would not rely on what is said here. When picking a club for my older kid I checked here on what was being said. The talk was so bad about this one club you would have to be crazy to join. I ignored what was said here and did my own research. I called the director. I talked to people making sure any info given was not based on info learned here. Talked to the coach too. We took a chance on this club. Years later it was the best decision we could have made. He has d1 offers, had fun and got a lot better. Had I listened to what was said here and not researched myself who knows what would have happened. Choosing a team is like anything else. Rely on credible info and remember what works or what does not work for one may work or not work for you. All these teams can lead to a great experience or a bad one. It is up to you to make the right choice and leave immediately if it does not seem right.

Same experience with my family. Glad I left. Sooo happy I did so. My son now has a coach who believes in him and his game has excelled. And... The coaches are better!!

Club, pal, middle school. Gonna be a busy spring. Not sure if numbers dropped for pal this year, last year we dropped a team. Travel was twice a week till end of October, once a week since then once a week.

Are middle school games crazy, or same as pal? Do people get more insane lime Travel? Maybe depends town to town?

Club, pal, middle school. Gonna be a busy spring. Not sure if numbers dropped for pal this year, last year we dropped a team. Travel was twice a week till end of October, once a week since then once a week.

Are middle school games crazy, or same as pal? Do people get more insane lime Travel? Maybe depends town to town?

I know last year our numbers were down for PAL. Many towns have their own special inner workings that favor some, and on the other hand push some away. If I would've of known then what I know now, I would of just allowed my son to play travel last year. Only due to the fact, for us, PAL practices did conflict with travel practices. Furthermore it's a no brainier, for me to determine which team took president over the other. Was it fair for the other kids on the PAL team who showed up to every practice, who didn't play travel, to play less than my kid who missed several practices? No. So this year even though our town has a 7th grade PAL team, he will only focus on travel and MS lacrosse. I don't know how insane our MS lacrosse is, but know some towns are over the top. It's important to realize, it's not our kids that are over the top (insane) it's us Parents who are. Likewise, if your son is thinking about switching teams, do your due diligence; speak to the director, don't be hooked only by a coaches resume, find out there are and daddy coaches on the coaching staff, it could be a game changer. Lastly, be careful especially going forward into MS and HS. It's not one size fits all. We've worked too long and hard to throw money at any travel club lacrosse which we are not satisfied with. Don't become a prostitute in order for your kid to play a game. But hey, to each is own.

I know people tend to only care about the A teams but I am curious what people's thoughts are on B teams this year? Recon still advertising they have spots? S2S B team will have A first showing, People are saying the Igloo B team gained some new talent. Thoughts?

Recon A isnt strong so not sure how a B team would Be? The benefit of S2S B and Igloo B is that they practice with their A teams, so they get solid coaching, and it’s like being on a scout team in college; you always have to “play up” to your competition in practice. Solid plan.

solid for the B players not the A players. Not a big fan of that .

Igloo B has been around awhile. Do you think they have gotten better? S2S B hasn't played as a team yet so we will see if they are getting a benefit from that model. Recon "A" is a B team. What teams will be top of this bracket?

Hypothetically; Lets fast forward a bit. One kid plays on 91 top team and the other plays on Recons top team. Now both of those kids enter the same showcase(s). Is it possible the kid from Recon may in fact receive more offers from top collegiate schools than the kid from 91 top team? I think it all depends on the schools needs and the individual. Take a peak at some D1 rosters, what's the average size (height/weight) of the smallest player, then do an overall average. Point being, I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth paying some of the outrageous tuition fees asked by some of the top clubs. Just a thought.

The player from a top team has an advantage because he has been playing against better competition more consistently and for longer. That said, the next couple years are awkward because kids are maturing differently. By 10th grade almost all the kids are past this stage and, more or less, fully grown. For both individuals and teams there is more parity. There will always be the elite teams but the competition is much less one sided and enjoyable as a player and parent.

I see your point, but the way you put it, your first sentence is neutralized once 10th grade rolls around, which was the point I was trying to make. I truly believe, as you said kids mature differently at different stages, so playing on a top team at this point, worth the outrageous prices some clubs are asking? Truthfully, it all boils down to the parents opinion and whats best for their family.

S2s b we'll have to wait and see. Could be decent, could be bad. Igloo b was solid last year. I don't know if recon had enough for 2 teams. I don't think they're second team was that good, and did they lose pieces from the 1st team? Don't know what they are trying to fill.

You are right but you definitely take a risk. The player needs to be self-motivated beyond the average player in order to maintain the intensity in the years leading up to 10th grade.

Hypothetically; Lets fast forward a bit. One kid plays on 91 top team and the other plays on Recons top team. Now both of those kids enter the same showcase(s). Is it possible the kid from Recon may in fact receive more offers from top collegiate schools than the kid from 91 top team? I think it all depends on the schools needs and the individual. Take a peak at some D1 rosters, what's the average size (height/weight) of the smallest player, then do an overall average. Point being, I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth paying some of the outrageous tuition fees asked by some of the top clubs. Just a thought. [/quote]

The player from a top team has an advantage because he has been playing against better competition more consistently and for longer. That said, the next couple years are awkward because kids are maturing differently. By 10th grade almost all the kids are past this stage and, more or less, fully grown. For both individuals and teams there is more parity. There will always be the elite teams but the competition is much less one sided and enjoyable as a player and parent.[/quote]

I see your point, but the way you put it, your first sentence is neutralized once 10th grade rolls around, which was the point I was trying to make. I truly believe, as you said kids mature differently at different stages, so playing on a top team at this point, worth the outrageous prices some clubs are asking? Truthfully, it all boils down to the parents opinion and whats best for their family. [/quote]
You are right but you definitely take a risk. The player needs to be self-motivated beyond the average player in order to maintain the intensity in the years leading up to 10th grade. [/quote]

The big difference I see between A and B teams is the speed of the game. At this point, everyone should be able to pass and catch at a reasonable %. I see the A teams just doing drills faster. Call it intensity, self motivation, whatever, but the increased speed of the game is emphasized as a top priority. Athletic talent will always find a way to be shown. Playing against better players makes you better. Why is this? Because they move faster in every aspect. A decently athletic kid can dominate a B team because he is faster, stronger whatever. These A team kids cannot rely only on athletic ability, they need the IQ and athletic ability. The B team coaches cannot always make a drill faster based on the kids on the team. There might be a couple studs, but no depth. B teams that win b tournaments usually are the teams that have been together for a while and play a well coached game. They don't rely on a couple studs to win, they play a true team game. There are definitely kids on b teams that could be on a teams. Maybe they want o play other sports, or the travel aspect does not work. Puberty is a expletive. The slightly undersized middie or attackman that is quick, is about to get smashed in middle school. Unless he is a D1 level player, he will not be the go to guy. Its the bigger kid that might not be as fast, but can survive the beatings that are to come...

So the B kids are making the A kids worse??? Not sure I follow.

Funny isn't it. It sounds like he's afraid his little Johnny might lose his spot. I've watched A and B play together. It makes everyone play better. You always get a spoiled kid who think they are the next Rabil and won't get in a drill with the B kid. It only hurts little Rabil because he'll never learn to be a real teammate. Oh, and all the kids know what a loser he is.