BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums PENNSYLVANIA LACROSSE PENNSYLVANIA FORUM Duke's Lacrosse

Thank you, voice of reason. Why have you forsaken me for so long? You are 100% correct. MORE lacrosse is not a NEED and in many cases even a WANT. Parents enable this. The new lacrosse norm.

I agree that most youth players are playing too much. But I would suggest that they are not playing enough "quality" lacrosse. If you are playing for your rec program and middle school you are playing too much lacrosse but not enough quality lacrosse. We recently made a change and dropped 2/4 options. My kid was playing:

1. Middle School Lacrosse
2. Rec Lacrosse
3. Club Lacrosse
4. Dukes Nationals

We are dropping:
1. Middle School Lacrosse
2. Rec Lacrosse
4. Dukes Nationals and replacing with Brotherly Love Nationals.

This leaves 2 out of 4 Just our regular club and Brotherly Love Nationals. We now anticipate our Spring/Summe schedule to be only 1-2 practices a week and the Sunday NXT League. We have literally three more days of family dinners PER week which is amazing. We have actually planned a couple of road trips this Spring as the NXT League is every other week.

We have never done this before, the time commitment is HALF yet I feel like we are picking a quality versus quantity approach. I am not claiming to have the solution but half the lacrosse time commitment yet play better quality....I am optimistic.

Curious as to why you would drop middle school lacrosse. Shouldn't that be a feeder into the high school lacrosse program?

my only question with brotherly love is this, they had evaluations on a friday night, when only local kids could make it, i think they should consider a saturday or sunday

So you drop the affordable, community and school programs and keep the club and national? What about the bonding opportunity that's afforded by the school program for kids who will play in HS together? I'm curious to know if you have a bias. What club team do you belong to? I'm a little leery of the saccharine BL posts. Whether you're a BL insider or Dukes hater, you're not objective. I commend BL for expanding the business, but cloak your ads a little better.

Sounds much better. Brotherly Love is not practicing this summer? What is the regular club team? For me, my son will play middle school because they are introduced to the varsity offense and because its not that long of a commitment. He also plays rec because all of his friends play. Plus, the rec team only has a one hour practice on Saturday and a game on Sunday. Also, Rec and Middle School will be done by June. Then he'll play his club team in the summer. He'll practice 2x a week, play in 5 tournaments and be wrapped up by the second week of July. This really means that the summer vacation is only jammed up for a few weeks. I'm not sure why people want to do multiple club teams. Why not club OR Brotherly Love? Not criticizing... just curious. The two most fun options are always MS and Rec, in my (and my son's) opinion.

Brotherly love nationals made its selection decisions?

Did BL Natl make its decisions or not? You were notified per #4 above?

Mid and Rec don't make up half of the time by a long shot. Your club and natl are year round commitments (remember who your talking to). Are you factoring in all the skill development stuff that you are expected to do with club and natl? rec and mid require no commitment in comparison. Ding, dong, time to wake up.

Oops, someone just got exposed!

Not at all. I was at both tryouts. They had 60 kids between the two and the second one they split into two groups. One group clearly was in and the other was on the bubble. My kid is good, certainly not the best player at his position there; however, at the second tryout they said they were taking 38-40 kids which leaves out 20. My kid is clearly not in the "lesser" 20 group as they kept him with the top group all night. We have played at this same age group both rec and club since my kid was 7 years old I know the better players and my kid is right there.

Yes I drop the school and community programs because: 1. The community program we belong to is awful and falling apart. The coaches for his team have never played the game and really are marginal at best. Yes they are enthusiastic and positive but my kid is in middle school now, he needs to get ready for high school. The Middle School Team is awful with a college kid coaching that is simply in over his head.

I sat down with my kid and reviewed his choices. He bonds with his current club team and has been there for 3 years. He likes this new group at Brotherly Love and has already made some friends. What else is there to it. You may think my post is overly saccharine to BL. However, they do a great job and I don't have any problem commending them and joining them. There are plenty that seem to enjoy bashing this club for their success. I simply am an objective consumer. If I am going to spend a couple of thousand a year for club lacrosse I do my research and make the best possible choice for my kid. My kid currently plays for one of the other established programs that runs tournaments.

What age group are you talking about?

How about you step up as a man and do something for your community Mr. Dad of the year. It's guys like you that make me laugh. You always say the coaches never played and can't coach. Well why don't you step up and be a big man to help the community out. People like you are the reason community sports leagues are falling apart. You sit there and talk bad about the few guys that want to help out but have {Gary the Gator arms) when it comes to helping out.

It's a good point, but maybe he is stepping up in one way or another. The rec and middle school programs really do need help because they are the most accessible programs for those who don't have the time and/or financial resources to participate in club. Most club kids probably start in rec so maintaining that experience opportunity is important. My kid started there and still participates. Despite what some might believe, I've seen some pretty good lacrosse players come from rec programs. How else would they make the cuts for those competitive club teams? And, they can be FUN, a word not mentioned very often in these forums, but one that should be uttered most often for an experience meant for a child.

You my friend know nothing about me and couldn't be more wrong.

I have coached everyone of my 3 kids in lacrosse, basketball, and soccer. I played soccer and lacrosse so I didn't do a bad job there. Basketball, I couldn't hit the side of a barn, yet still helped out since the concepts are similar to lacrosse. These were all for community programs.

However there comes a time when a dad needs to step off the sideline and middle school in my estimation is where that happens. My oldest son now in high school, I noticed that my coaching him caused tension and strained our relationship as we are both competitive type personalities. Best thing I did was stop coaching him. There is nothing wrong with saying that you are no longer "the man" for the job. There is nothing wrong with also doing a frank assessment of your kids middle school athletic programs sponsored by community, rec, club, or whomever and making a decision as to what is best for them. My son is a pretty good player, do I think he is elite, absolutely not but if I am going to spend 1,000's of dollars, commute all over the place, take up valuable family time....darn right I am going to have some level of expectation as to the coaching and the caliber of play.

Wouldn't you do the same for academics? Would yout accept a subpar school and curriculum with teachers that were incompetent. Would you let your kid continue in a math class offered by a school where the teacher struggled with algebra and didn't really know what they were doing. I think not.

So again my premature ejaculator spewing advice and judgment you know nothing about me and my volunteer time so climb back into your cubicle and be bitter at the world.

It's a good point, but maybe he is stepping up in one way or another. The rec and middle school programs really do need help because they are the most accessible programs for those who don't have the time and/or financial resources to participate in club. Most club kids probably start in rec so maintaining that experience opportunity is important. My kid started there and still participates. Despite what some might believe, I've seen some pretty good lacrosse players come from rec programs. How else would they make the cuts for those competitive club teams? And, they can be FUN, a word not mentioned very often in these forums, but one that should be uttered most often for an experience meant for a child.[/quote]

I have not only seen some pretty good players I have seen great players from rec programs but to become a really good player rec alone with middle school will NOT get you there. Rec is a great place to start and middle school can be fun but there isn't a kid out there playing today at an elite level that got to where they are by playing rec alone. No doubt there is a need for rec ball but to become a high school/college caliber player one needs to play club at some level.

Wow that's a lot to explain yourself. Like I said you are the guy that's too good for your community and talk bad rather than do something. How about you take over the program and charge a bit more to hie some qualified coaches. I mean you have all of the answers. Good luck with your little star, why even deal with MS. You should have him go down to the HS and tryout.

You've obviously thought this out and I'm not going to criticize any one's personal decisions. However, if your son, along with some of the other quality and experienced players, didn't turn away from the middle school team it's possible that it could produce better quality. Same with rec, but I think once MS sports hit many people decide to leave the rec team and just play MS. It allows the boys to bond with the players who they will spend most of their playing time over the next 5 years. I know you said that he already made friendships and bonded with the players on BL, but honestly, that is probably hyperbole since it was only 2 tryouts.

Not at all my unemployed friend. What's it like having your spouse bring home the bacon. Unlike you I work for a living and provide for my family. I don't have any interest in coaching a MS team or a MS age rec team and that doesn't make me a bad person or anti-community. Also didn't say I have all the answers, just have more answers than you

That is my point. My son plays club and really should not be playing Rec but he has friends there and he has to deal with adversity (some kids can't play) I explained to him that he cannot complain and quit but should use this as a opportunity to step up and be a leader and work on things he does not get to work on in club lax.

I'd argue that he SHOULD be playing Rec BECAUSE he has friends there and has to deal with adversity. Some kids can't play like Nelson and Jason couldn't play last year on the our local football team. How'd that turn out? He!! no he shouldn't quit! Learn and help develop those around you. Can't can become can with the right attitude and effort. Club lax has its place, but I think it's wrong to undervalue the positive aspects of Rec and school. Let's not be so arrogant.

Why on earth are we talking about rec on Dukes page? I get what you are saying about needed parents for rec teams to build community but there is a reason why kids stop playing rec.(or at least mine) MOSTLY BECAUSE MY SON KNEW MORE ABOUT THE GAME THAN HIS COACHES.

So your son is too good for rec ball? Wow.

Why shouldn't he be playing rec ball?

To answer your question, we are talking about rec because people on this thread are basically saying that Dukes and the like make rec unnecessary and irrelevant when, in fact, rec programs are great feeders for and supplement the club experience in a less intense environment. Kids get good exercise, blow off steam and even sharpen their skills in rec even if the kid has greater lax acumen than the coach. Will you not let your son play wall ball because the wall can't teach him. How about face off speed drills. What does the grass know? Give me a break! Of course you can't make your kids rec experience meaningful with the attitude you have. Of course we can't discuss the countless examples of players who were successful even with rec comprising most of their experience. Point me to the link where I can share it and I'll give you something to read.

Yes as a matter of fact.. He has friends who play on our local team and my son will go a support his friends but there is a clear difference. Yes I am a current Duke National player. And this difference will come out when our kids play HS lax. Where the line is there from only rec players from the kids who play club? My son did play rec as I stated before but he out grew his team.

I am sure he did, it was probably more that he THOUGHT he new more than his coaches and stopped listening to them a long time ago right about the time you started telling him he was the best lacrosse players out on the field and started questioning him about if he still wanted to play rec lacrosse.

My son isn't the best on his team but playing at a club level keeps him hungry. That's my point. I don't blow up my kids head believe me but when I found out that our rec coach watches youtube videos. Come on........I'm not speaking for ALL rec coaches I speaking from experience so if you don't play for the Dukes then get off the forum. Have fun on rec!

Outgrew his team? Like he weighs 300lbs as a 12 year old and they don’t have a uniform for him? Most of the local req A teams are really good. WC, LYA, Garnet Valley..
heck Garnet Valleys U14 team could beat loads of travel teams...

My son doesn’t play for Dukes but we’re considering it. I’m checking out the posts on here and I’m not getting a great impression. Is there another forum for the club? Can someone tell me why my son should try to play for Dukes? We’re new to pa.

Where do you live? What year is your kid? Where did he play before? What position, and how good is your kid (B,A,AA, Elite)?

National team at 12 . Means nothing money grab.

Western Philly suburb, 2022, doesn’t matter, middie, AA to elite.

I'll be glad to share my kids experience and let you decide on your own. The good: if you are above the travel line you get to travel with the team to a variety of out of state locations for tournaments, which my kid enjoyed. The mini camps were pretty good, instruction was fundamentally sound and when they were $40 it was relatively cheap compared to other available training. I also like how they emphasized the importance of education and getting good grades and held a banquet to honor kids who excelled academically. Now for the bad, the depth chart was a complete joke, my kid decided not to play on the team ymdmand missed at least 3-4mini camps before his name was removed, the directors claim they base the depth chart from mini camp evaluations. Obviously this was not the case. Secondly after making the travel line and showing up at a tournament, other kids who were not on the team or attended any mini camps mysteriously appeared all dressed to play, and play they did. Usually more playing time than the kids on depth chart. Parents were not informed nor was there any explanation of why these kids were there. We all realized afterwards they were either invited to help the team win or they were trying out for the team, which was unfair to the kids that worked hard to be at the tournament and for the parents who shelled out a [ChillLaxin] load of money. Then there were the coaches kids who saw a tremendous amount of playing time and never got criticized or pulled from the field for bad play. Oh and the banquet, again pretty much granted to a certain few hand picked kids, was let down for my kid who had a perfect report card but never got acknowledged. Haven't been with organization for a few yrs but sounds like things have not changed much. Guess it all depends on what your kid is looking for. In my opinion, if you're looking for some extra stick time for your kid in addition to another full time lax program than this might work for him, as long as your willing to put up with the bs depth chart and alot of other not so genuine aspects of management.

Look into Freedom. Best 2022 team in town.

^^^This^^^

Thanks for the feedback. I don't think I'd want to put up with the depth chart issue, favoritism, and the management issues. It seems like extra stick time is the only draw and all clubs offer that. I'm going to look into Freedom and some of the other options for him. I do like the academic excellence component though, but not enough to overcome the other things. My son is academically motivated anyway.

Good choice looking in Freedom, great coaches and nice families. The Academic excellence has disappeared along with the rest of the program. Dukes management no longer request reports cards from the players or host the Annual banquet to recognize the Academic athletes that the program is always marketing. The program has gone down hill and is not worth time/money or the aggravation it causes with the BS that is shoveled by management.

Dukes Thread, RIP.

2022 dad here. My son loves this team and the kids on it. He's been on the team for almost two years and while there have been changes, all the changes have been positive. Not every game, camp, event is perfect nor is it meant to be. Same with life. No my son hasn't turned in a report card- but his grades are his to own. No he didn't go to summer banquet- and he doesn't care. He does care about the lacrosse, the coaches, friends and families that show up and compete every month and doesnt care at all about who is the best, what other clubs are doing or who is playing where. Its just competitive youth lacrosse for fun. There will always be more kids that don't make it than do and therefore more families looking for something else. Its all OK. G is a good man that works hard at his craft. Dukes is a great organization and I am glad to be a part of it.