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What did you expect him to say? I'm going to ride KO as far as she will take us?

Bottom line regarding "selfish" play is that those are the kids the college coaches recruit first, it's a lot easier to adjust an overly aggressive player to your system than vis-versa. Camps. clinics and games all the coaches want to see is the kid that will run through a wall to get it done, those tend to be the "selfish" players described in this thread. I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but if it's about getting into a school with a top program, those kids are the first to get recruited. Unfortunately, too many parents think their kid is the one and are mistaken, but for the legit players they will be rewarded with offers from all the top programs and they could care less about your kids HS experience with the ball hog.

This is why we have the problem with selfish play. Many parents who do not know what they are talking about tell (coach) their kids to "go to goal" because they believe that is what college coaches look at. They do not understand the game and they believe as stated in the post above that college coaches look for selfish players first. Not true at all.

Believe whatever you need to, but look at the early recruits in your daughters grade or any other class and you will see those dreaded ball hogs are at the top of the list

Port Washington beat Lynbrook by 10, beat Long Beach, beat Manhasset,beat Syosset in semis and lost to Massapequa in OT in A final. I think they should be on that list.

And yet another who can not understand that scoring goals does not always mean the player is a ball hog.

I agree!!

My daughter is a 2019. Know most of the top girls. Looking at the IL list I would say that is not true. Of course there are a few. But most are amazing players that make the players around them better. In a few cases, their #1 strengths are great passing. I would say of the top 20, at most 3 or 4 would be considered ball hoggish. So I think you're wrong.

And of the commits where my daughter is attending, which I think most would consider a top program, there is not one I would consider a ball hog.

Exactly, I am familiar with the some of the older classes (16's, 18's and to some degree the 17's). The majority of the best players in each class do a lot more than score goals.The problem is that many of the parents of players who are not on IL's list and were not top recruits think the only way to get on the list is to score a lot of goals. They do not value other aspects of the game. In my experience, the best college programs recruit athletes and complete players who hustle and do many things well. Some happen to be big time goal scorers but that is not all they do.

Top 10

Port Washington
Garden City
Mt. Sinai
ESM
Manhasset
BBP
CHS
Massapequa
West Islip
Northport

I would replace Port with OB

What about Ward Melville?

agreed. I believe this is the strongest team they have and my be their last shot

no

Believe whatever you need to, but look at the early recruits in your daughters grade or any other class and you will see those dreaded ball hogs are at the top of the list[/quote]

My daughter is a 2019. Know most of the top girls. Looking at the IL list I would say that is not true. Of course there are a few. But most are amazing players that make the players around them better. In a few cases, their #1 strengths are great passing. I would say of the top 20, at most 3 or 4 would be considered ball hoggish. So I think you're wrong.

And of the commits where my daughter is attending, which I think most would consider a top program, there is not one I would consider a ball hog.[/quote]

Exactly, I am familiar with the some of the older classes (16's, 18's and to some degree the 17's). The majority of the best players in each class do a lot more than score goals.The problem is that many of the parents of players who are not on IL's list and were not top recruits think the only way to get on the list is to score a lot of goals. They do not value other aspects of the game. In my experience, the best college programs recruit athletes and complete players who hustle and do many things well. Some happen to be big time goal scorers but that is not all they do. [/quote]

Two most underrated (by most parents) attributes of highly recruited players are field vision and off-ball IQ. Parents don't notice the girl who makes a great clear through at exactly the right time which allows the girl with the ball an easy drive to net. Coaches do.

My daughter is a 2019. Know most of the top girls. Looking at the IL list I would say that is not true. Of course there are a few. But most are amazing players that make the players around them better. In a few cases, their #1 strengths are great passing. I would say of the top 20, at most 3 or 4 would be considered ball hoggish. So I think you're wrong.

And of the commits where my daughter is attending, which I think most would consider a top program, there is not one I would consider a ball
hog.[/quote]

Exactly, I am familiar with the some of the older classes (16's, 18's and to some degree the 17's). The majority of the best players in each class do a lot more than score goals.The problem is that many of the parents of players who are not on IL's list and were not top recruits think the only way to get on the list is to score a lot of goals. They do not value other aspects of the game. In my experience, the best college programs recruit athletes and complete players who hustle and do many things well. Some happen to be big time goal scorers but that is not all they do. [/quote]

Two most underrated (by most parents) attributes of highly recruited players are field vision and off-ball IQ. Parents don't notice the girl who makes a great clear through at exactly the right time which allows the girl with the ball an easy drive to net. Coaches do.
[/quote]

Get over yourself ,”makes a great clear through” is funny enough , “at exactly the right time “ just makes it better. Call this bragging or whatever but my kid was a top 10 ranked recruit ( I think the rankings are nonsense) and could have gone wherever. The reason why in my opinion are she was athletic, aggressive , and a bit of a ball hog .Is what it is but if you don’t think a lot of the top recruits are the alphas and could care less about clearing through so some other kid can score you are just not paying attention.They want kids who put it in the back of th net.

Exactly, I am familiar with the some of the older classes (16's, 18's and to some degree the 17's). The majority of the best players in each class do a lot more than score goals.The problem is that many of the parents of players who are not on IL's list and were not top recruits think the only way to get on the list is to score a lot of goals. They do not value other aspects of the game. In my experience, the best college programs recruit athletes and complete players who hustle and do many things well. Some happen to be big time goal scorers but that is not all they do. [/quote]

Two most underrated (by most parents) attributes of highly recruited players are field vision and off-ball IQ. Parents don't notice the girl who makes a great clear through at exactly the right time which allows the girl with the ball an easy drive to net. Coaches do.
[/quote]

Get over yourself ,”makes a great clear through” is funny enough , “at exactly the right time “ just makes it better. Call this bragging or whatever but my kid was a top 10 ranked recruit ( I think the rankings are nonsense) and could have gone wherever. The reason why in my opinion are she was athletic, aggressive , and a bit of a ball hog .Is what it is but if you don’t think a lot of the top recruits are the alphas and could care less about clearing through so some other kid can score you are just not paying attention.They want kids who put it in the back of th net.[/quote]

Yeah your kid wasn't. Sorry. Talk about funny. You're clueless.

Just to put some perspective on what coaches and evaluators of recruits put a premium on, we can look at the example of last years top freshman recruit in the nation. Certainly was not scoring an overinflated amount of meaningless goals in crappy games to pad the stats. In fact she was like the third or forth scorer on her HS team. Why was she valued so high? Go watch the kid play, the eye test. Flying around with a non stop motor, making plays all over the field. You can be the "game changer" without ever scoring a goal. Here is what the stat line does not tell you. One kid can score 100 goals feasting on a weak defender or two that most of the opposing teams seem to have, yet may have 0 goals against a good defense or when her team needs a goal. Another kid may have 20 goals, but all quality goals that came in the time of need for her team. Some kids get it, and are actually embarrassed to put in 5 goals in a 20-2 beat down. Others don't get it and are happy to pile on in those beat downs, and unfortunately you get the parents buying into the numbers.

well said

Agree.

Spot on. Too bad many parents and HS coaches do not get it.

The best player on my daughters team fits your description very well. Although not the number one recruit in the country she was by far the top recruit on the team. Many of the parents could not understand it simply because they do not understand the game.

Until they do away with LI Newsday that publishes the point leaders and colleges that publish kids bios with HS points selfish me first play will continue. I agree with poster above that girls with endless motors are the real deal but on LI we have too many girls that run into a defensive wall, back out and reset, run into a defensive wall, back out and reset, do it again and either score or turn it over.

Most teams have girls that score tons of meaningless goals in their quest to stat pad. Its a beautiful team game when played and coached properly but was too much me first lately

Those are the parents that are living their lives through their daughters. I see it all the time - whenever you see one - either at the gas station, grocery store or the mall - they will tell you all about the 5 or 6 goals their daughter got. Forget about trying to tell them about the nice trail check your older got during fall ball against a top player - that's not a stat and besides - it's only one trail check. Hard to describe yard sales to those morons. Yes, you know who you are.

Yes, there is no shortage of selfish players. However, those players are not the top players. Oh yes, they will be recruited and the parents will consider them top tier but in reality they are not. I have watched the crazies while both of mine went through the recruiting process. While the top players are receiving offers from the best programs and their daughter is not they are beside themselves. They will make excuses and blame coaches and club directors but they will never get it. Some of us understand (where our daughters fall) so when Carolina doesn't come calling we are not surprised. Many do not and they will hate on the players that do receive offers from the top programs. Some people look at stats because they do not know how to evaluate anything else. From what I have seen over the years if you want to know where your daughter stands just take a look at which programs are extending offers. If Maryland, Carolina, Northwestern, Penn State and Florida are beating down the door it is pretty safe to say the player is top tier. If the top programs are not offering... Well, some of us get the picture. Some will make excuses or blame somebody and then tell you she had many offers from the top programs but chose xyz (not top program) instead.

OBvious joke. Most OBverrated team by media for years now. Actually now we will see they are not even one level below those schools.

You people crack me up. College coaches look for the best athletes/ best lacrosse players. If the kid is a ball hog they don't care as they think they will be able to rein them in .They could not care less if your kid" makes a great clear through". Even funnier is when they tell you "we recruit families not just players" because they know you bunch of self absorbed fools believe you are the parents that the coaches really like . In reality if your kid can help them win you could be a horror show of a parent and they will still take your kid.

I agree they recruit athletes but to imply they are uninterested in goal-scorers or kids with great game sense is misguided. I do believe it is true they will avoid, when possible, parents who are toxic. I have seen coaches walk away from showcase games when a sideline parent is going nuts. Ain't no one got time for that.

I'm guessing your kid is a selfish player and that you are an A@$ H¥£€# .

You can not even grasp that selfish players are never the "best" lacrosse players and most times not the best athletes. It really amazes me how some parents believe that being selfish makes you a good player. Also amazed by how many of you think every player who scores a lot of goals is a ball hog. I am guessing that you are the same people who will say things like "that's a real head scratcher" when a girl is recruited by top programs (over your daughter) or "that list is a joke, my daughter scores more goals than her".

Wow, you are not smart. You say coaches look for best athletes/best lacrosse players (wow AMAZING insight). You're probably running around your mother's basement in your underwear screaming "I burned them with that one!" Put your clothes back on and take a seat. Now try, as best you can, to define best lacrosse player. Maybe with that little brain teaser, you'll start to learn something. And FFS stop screaming "Ma! Ma! Bring me more gummy bears!"

You are wrong about the family comment. They do care about the parents . Apple never falls far from the tree and they'd rather not deal with that for 4 years and FYI the really good players usually come from a grounded family. The kids and parents who think they are great are the horror shows!

There are a number of parents and players who will never get it. They will continue to wonder why players like the one described above garner the attention of those who are the most knowledgeable about the sport (top college coaches, IL, UA).

A while back there was a post that identified some of the top players from the Island by class in recent years. Some people took offense to the list. One post in particular annoyed me so I would like to respond. below is the quote.

- "Those lists are pretty good, could add or drop a couple, and move a few in order, but still pretty good. Since I am familiar with all the years, I do find it interesting that a few of these years had some of the early recruits that were supposed to be top of the age groups when they committed, and now you really don't hear about them much, not just this silly list, but overall in lacrosse."

I just saw IL's Preseason All American List and recognized many of the names were the same names as the players on the list that you were referring to.

Of the 2015 class four of the six players listed are currently on the All American list. The other two are doing very well.
Of the 2016 class three of the seven are currently listed on the All American list. Two of the others started just about every game last year and did very well. The other two who happen to play at the two toughest places to get on the field also did fine (one was the leading freshman scorer).
Of the 2017 class they are current freshmen. All of them were recognized by Inside Lacrosse and all of them were selected to the Under Armour Senior Game.
Of the 2018 class they are current seniors in HS. All of the players were ranked Top 40 by Inside Lacrosse and all of the players were selected to represent Long Island at the Under Armour Games.

It appears to me that all of the young women listed are doing just fine. It does not appear that any have fallen off as you suggest. We all know there are a few others in each class that are also considered top players. When all is said and done, we will see a large number of these players on the All American List.

Just bugs me when I see the jealousy and bitterness come out.

Describe fine for the other two 2016s? we're they top 20 recruits? Will they be producing this year?

So hundreds of LI kids play and we are talking about the top few? Talk about the bottom 95% that is more realistic. Way more LI kids playing at the Quinnipiacs of the world than UNC and Maryland

The bitter pricks are not jealous of those players.

People still don't realize who has UA in their back pocket. Check the list of all Americans All play for one club

Haters gonna hate. The original post had nothing to do with Top 20 recruits. It was to show that many top recruits were not hindered because the didn't fit a particular "profile". Nutcases like you couldn't grasp the gist and turned the whole thing into an argument.

Just come out with it, are you upset because your daughter was not recognized or do you just dislike one of the players (or there parents).

On second thought go away and take your negative bitter BS with you.

No, they do not. Just can't get passed the it's all political nonsense can you?

These girls are very deserving some clearly than others. And others, without connections, who are just as good are left off each year. Though if you don't think there's some nonsense going on with politics as far as travel team, daddy's who played, elite siblings, you're only kidding yourself. There's a lacrosse "club" out there, and if you're in it, you'll be rewarded. If you're not, it's going to be a lot tougher.

And the numbers make proportional sense. The better clubs have more and better players and are represently accordingly. How many player do you think you should be seeing from beach bums or wherever you have a problem with as under represented?