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Not all dads are bad apples. My experience with 3 boys playing all sorts of sports is that the dad coaches are almost always more dependable, more invested and more longevity. You can't really pay the non-dad coaches enough for their time to make them as vested in the success of a team as a dad would be. With a job, family and a life outside of lacrosse, you couldn't pay me enough to put in the time and deal with the aggravation required to be a successful coach of an elite club team, not that I am qualified to do so. My experience is that the younger coaches, regardless of their resume, move on rather quickly and without much notice.

Your clueless dude and I am guessing a dad coach. The only thing I see when a dad is on the sideline.

1. Their kid gets a preferred position
2. Their kid gets more playing time or in some cases really doesn't come off the field
3. Father and son relationship that is not healthy.

I coached my kid when he was younger and the best thing for our relationship and his game was when I stepped away. If your still coaching your kid in middle school it is because you are giving him preferential treatment to help him or living vicariously through him. Your in denial daddy ball is a major complaint for all of these teams.Parents don't necessarily say it on the sidelines but don't kid yourself they are behind closed doors over a beer. Put down the rose colored glasses. On my team the two dad coaches kids play attack and they have no business playing there let alone for the whole game. We lost a kid on our B Team that was clearly better than the two dad's kids playing attack on the A Team and that kid then goes and makes the AA Team for the other club. How do you go from B Team to another clubs AA Team.

Great question. I have three boys playing youth lacrosse and I don't know of a single dad who has placed his kid on defense, not saying it hasn't happened. Guesstimating 75% of the time it is attack and 25% midfield. It is in all sports. For my kids football team every single kid that is playing quarterback has a dad that is either assistant coach or head coach. The rest of the backfield is the other dad's kids

Sorry you are a part of such a horrible club. I take all of these evaluations with a grain of salt. Yes, sometimes the coach's kid is undeserving and sometimes it's just a convenient excuse for other parents whose kids aren't quite good enough. If you aren't happy, you should move along and stop talking crap over beers behind people's backs.

Nothing horrible about my club just stating an observation. Unlike most of the people on this board I don't have any delusional notion that my kid is the next Paul Rabil. He has fun he isn't in front of the X Box i am good with that. I didn't say "I" was talking crap I said that Parents are talking crap and if you haven't heard those comments you need to get out from under the rock you live in. Your impassioned and highly off the mark response confirms...daddy coach.

Agree with all of your points; however, the dads not being on the sideline can be done and can be done well. The following clubs all have a non dad group of coaches and are excellent. Mesa, HHH, NXT to name just a few. There are pros and cons to both sides and think dad's roles are valuable at the elementary school level but middle school and beyond....give it a break. Daddy ball is unfortunately the one down side and it is a big one.

Take a look at Dukes HC Danowski coaching the USA Team. When he was't the coach his son didn't make the team and now that he is the HC.....look at who made the final cut over a ton of better attack men.

There are opportunities for dads to coach, but maybe elite youth lacrosse isn't that place for most of them for many reasons hashed and rehashed here.

I think the hyper-competitive nature of youth lacrosse makes for a very slippery slope for any dad no matter how good a coach he is. Too little room for error to please anyone.

With that said, I think the hyper-competitive nature of youth lacrosse has created an environment that would disappoint its creators.

Youth lacrosse is becoming a black hole, swallowing up the time and money that used to be devoted to so many other enriching activities for our young men. As parents, more often than not we succumb to the pressure, adjust our schedules and tap into our bank accounts.

I wish I felt better about this, but these days I'm really questioning who we are doing this for.

Not sure who JN is and if he is stealing your kids. Not sure they are even your kids. Seems to me that at the end of every year they are a free agent, since they are ultimately a customer. If they don't like what's on your menu they can go to a different restaurant. You don't have to be Jeff Bezos to understand that National, All Star, Regional All Star Teams are the next generation elite team. You have Florida Alliance, ADVNC, True, and Dukes just to name a few. Seems like a good idea to get out in front of it before it runs your over.

"Free agent." That's the problem. No longer a game, but rather a business that serves the business more than its players who don't get paid, but pay to play. Remember who these free agents are and the effect peer and, unfortunately, parental pressure has on their decisions. It's no coincidence that the more elite a team is the more profitable it is as well. When you start comparing youth sports to leading international corporations, take a minute or two to consider the irony.

Debbie Downer, get off the cliff. I think he was using the term "free agent" as a reference point to mean that players and families have a choice. I agree with him every year parents have a choice and do not "belong" to any team or club. Yet a lot of these clubs believe that the players belong to their club. Nobody is suggesting that they get paid, you need to get off the pulpit.

Said the parent who doesn't get the fact that: son won't likely warm the bench on a D1 team let alone start, but thinks the added pressure, sacrifice, and expense, time commitment etc. of elite youth lacrosse is worth it.

Bury your head and enjoy living vicariously through the next tourney win. You're obsessed and your kid knows it. You missed the point re. pay. Not on the cliff. Just feel bad for your son.

Agree.. I think we are all missing what national teams offer. Out of the 50+ clubs, maybe 10 to 12 team are really good. Most "A" teams have 2 to 5 "AA" players. National teams allow these players to play with players at the level. Dukes started it all but other clubs are taking it to the next level.

Dukes, the AOL of lacrosse, great start but poor management.

You are incredible. Less than 3% of HS lacrosse players go on to join a D1 team. You're kidding yourself if you believe the business of youth lacrosse isn't selling a dream that will come true for very, very, very few. The concept is that your kid is going to gain skills that will be applied to... what? To have more fun than the kid playing on the same size field with the same size goals, but without national teams and all the craziness around them? Why do you want your kid to do this? To have more fun? Because your next Rabil deserves this level of competition? Because you are developing a leader, a winner? Give me a break. You don't need a national team or even an AA team to do that. And, yes, my son is legitimately AA level, and maybe even national level. But, we won't push him if he's not enthusiastic about it. You probably would and then rationalize why it's best. You're likely wrong. Your kid will never look back and say he's glad he invested so much of his youth playing lacrosse while other things fell to the wayside. He'll never say that making the sacrifices were worth it. Unless, and this applies to a very select few, he takes the sport to college, has the success he did as a kid, and uses it to his advantage upon graduating. Wake up. Have a talk with your kid about what he really wants to do in his youth. If everybody on this thread had that talk, somebody would be lying if everyone said that their kid buys into all of this. Is that someone you by any chance? It's someone here. Or, am I the only one talking the ugly truth that nobody else can face?

100% agree. The whole point of the "national team" model (which is really just an all-star team that doesn't have an regional location for the players themselves) is to try to give the kids who have really developed as high quality/talent players an experience where they have similar caliber players around them and play against teams of the same level and challenge for the players.

Regarding Dukes, this whole focus seems to have been lost in the pursuit of the almighty dollar for some. The quality of players invited to join has become drastically watered down in order to bring in more dollars. And the quality of tournaments entered has also been watered down because tournament fees can be significantly higher (more profitable) than the once a month minicamps are. Even when the cost of those continues to go up. It's all just so disappointing that something that was so good not too long ago has declined so much.

More like Pukes Lax.... total disappointment

I am not a big fan of the national team model, but I can understand why people are interested in taking part. It seems that most of the complaints about Dukes are related to management, particularly player priority, as opposed to the national team concept. As more clubs get involved and create competition, it is an opportunity for the model to improve for the benefit of the players. As it stands right now, if you are not happy with your regular club, you can move on, not so much with the national teams.

The national team concept is to provide better competition for the elite players who are not developing on their AA teams? Not a competitive environment at the AA level? It'll be interesting to see how things get distilled even further when the national team fails to provide the ultimate experience. International teams, home schooled world traveling players. National becomes A national and B national. Suckers.

Isn't that basically how soccer works?

I'm not sure. What's the point of your question? Soccer does it like that so therefore it is good? Soccer does it like that and it has hurt the sport? What say you?

Spot on. Kids play too many games as it is.

Instead of pushing back, we parents enable the ever growing, year round commitment "required". That's if we want to be responsible and give our kids the best chance for success. Give me a break.

Has anybody taken into account the kids' feelings in this? I've watched my son at tournaments. He absolutely loves the kids he plays with, enjoys travelling to different places and most of the stuff that comes along with playing on an elite team. As it turns out, there are actual parents whose children compete at a high level who care about their children and their well being. And I know this doesn't fit your narrative of overbearing parents living their dreams out through their children, but my spouse and I actually see our son having a great experience and appreciate the opportunity he has.

Any chance you are projecting YOUR feelings onto other people (to include the actual participants) to further the point you're trying to make?

Agreed.

Have sons - all played/playing AA club. Certainly a big commitment but our entire family really enjoys the experience. May not be for very family but many do enjoy the journey and if they happen to play in college that is great as well.

You, my friend, are a shill. 99% of the people on here argue your exact point. The problem is the fact that fewer than 99% of the kids feel the way you say they do. Rationalize all you want. For those kids who do feel as you described, great, sign them up. The others, and there are many, serve your interests, not theirs. What does your lacrosse schedule look like?

Ok, When is enough lacrosse enough? How many games, practices are appropriate for our kids? Is there a tipping point? Too much of a good thing, or never can have too much? Of course all these boys are well rounded multi-sport athletes as well. What time do they close their school books at night after practicing or playing a game, or traveling to and fro? We keep piling more and more responsibility on kids. We ask them to make commitments to tournaments and forgo vacations (you know this happens), and everyone on here is ok with lacrosse taking bigger and bigger chunks of time. Really? And just because your kid enjoys something, that doesn't mean you can't step in as a responsible parent and say "enough".

Well this is going to sound crazy, but we actually speak with our son and make it clear that he's allowed to say if he feels like it's too much. Again, I know the whole parent/child communication thing doesn't fit what you want to frame, but I'm sorry to say that it's what we do. If you want to try to say "Oh yeah, riiiiiight!" then maybe you should take a look at yourself or whoever it is that you have such a problem with and to work on communications skills.

Regarding when "enough is enough/too much", it's a valid question for certain. And I would assume it's one that school (probably more so high school than middle school) athletes need to address. But this isn't new. Nor does it have anything to do with the sport of lacrosse and/or club lacrosse. I think that having your child learn to balance multiple challenges (school work, sports, friends, etc.) is a very critical life skill that parents should be working very hard to teach. Because, as it turns out, life only gets harder. And I feel like the coddling that so many parents are doing with their children right now is only serving to put more and more maladjusted "adults" into the world.

[/steps off of soapbox]

I was merely pointing that this is a somewhat tried and true model. I am sure in soccer there are some that would be advocates and some naysayers. Elite Gymnastics is similar as well, conversely I don't know any elite football player that doesn't play high school football. Different sports have different development structures. Just pointing out that lacrosse is relatively new in the whole elite category.

I have three kids and as a family we have fun with Club Lacrosse. We take family vacations in late July or August along with the majority of this country. Luckily our club makes a point of ceasing all activity by 2nd week of July. My kid loves the camaraderie, the competition, and the game.

Sure there are days he doesn't want to go to practice or wants to sleep in but I agree with the guys point above. Life is hard and the real world isn't going to do you favors. There is something to be learned with having a goal, busting your hump for it, and challenging yourself. My kid that plays lacrosse is a great student, plays three sports well, and for the most part is a normal 12 year old. Sure he is on an emotional rollercoaster, has all kinds of insecurities, struggles sometimes to juggle all his activities, but agree again with the guy above this is when you learn how to manage work, marriage, kids, life in general. You don't all of a sudden learn as an adult.

Great Dukes Nationals has done it again, set up a scrimmage for Sunday morning in North Carolina...You do know the Eagles are in the Super Bowl right??? How are we supposed to get home in time to see the game?? Great scheduling, always looking out for the families!!!!!

Yeah they did on purpose knowing the Eagles were playing this Sunday!!! LOL....how about just not going to the mini-camp or play in the games? Sounds like a pretty simple answer.

Yeah, what he's saying is that you've already paid so he couldn't care less about the rest of it!

Sorry, I forgot we just found out that the Eagles got into the Super Bowl TODAY when we got the schedule for the coming weekend ...They could easily have not schedule a game for Sunday morning Genius...by the way we are skipping the entire weekend, keep my donation it will be the last one.

Everyone has known about the scrimmages for at least a month. And honestly, there is always a game or scrimmage on Sunday after a mini camp so no surprise there. You can always skip the scrimmages. though. Those cost extra anyway.

Hey stunad these games have been known about for weeks prior to the weekend; the times were the only thing that was the unknown. But you sound like a typical IGGLES fan; ignorant and misinformed.

OK Genius, you just made my point, they new the schedule and that the Eagles were in the Super Bowl, cancel the scrimmage on Sunday and let people go home.. not to hard to figure out and move back to whatever hole in the wall town or state you came from if you are not an Eagles fan..Let's hear it E-A-G-L-E-S.

Or just don’t go if you don’t want to. Who’s forcing you?

My kid plays for Dukes Nationals 2024 and we went to the Brotherly National Tryouts. I am actually fine with Dukes Nationals and seem to be i the minority. I do have to say this was my first experience with Brotherly Love other than playing against them. It was the best run tryouts I have attended. iPads to register, super organized, practice plan and details sent out before hand and the actual tryout had a ton of touches. Kids didn’t have more than 5 minutes of downtime over 2 hours. Ton of talent in the room at least 60 kids were there on a Friday Night. I was skeptical if Bates would be there but he was for the whole time. The guy running it did say they weren’t sure of there model so not sure who is going to do it but if the top players there join that team will be awesome. At least 5 kids that played for Dukes at some point were there.

Agreed. I attended as well very well done tryouts. Tons of talent. Not sure I understand the business model but the team will be tremendous if the top kids accept which is not guaranteed. A lot of kids go to tryouts been to plenty ourselves and don't accept an invitation. If Bates and Episcopal are involved which it looks like they are this is a game changer for Philly Lacrosse. Bates and Brotherly Love will be a hard combination to beat. Also, would position Episcopal to get the best kids for their High School Team because the best kids at 2024 were all there and the only thing I saw Bates doing was taking notes. He was writing, "need to talk to this kids parents about attending EA"

It would be nice if brotherly love held these tryouts on a Saturday or Sunday as this would help attract kids from beyond the philly area . any idea which tourneys they are looking for ? that said, so many disgruntled Dukes Nationals players, should be pretty easy to attract some of them.

Hey Brotherly Love how about a supplemental tryout on a Saturday or Sunday in early March? Basketball is winding down schedule is wide open.