BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NEW JERSEY LACROSSE NEW JERSEY FORUM Boy's 2023 - 8th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019

Use this thread to discuss the Boys 2023 Graduation Year pertaining to Teams, Results of Tournaments and anything else related to Lacrosse in the New Jersey area.

Who will win Fall Finale at Princeton this weekend? NJ Riot, GSLA, MAma's Boyz?

Curious to see how all the NJ 2023 clubs are shaping up this fall? BBL has been strong but I'm wondering if they made any big additions? How about Tri-State? Leading Edge? Bluestar?

Should be interesting, Tri-State, LE and Bluestar will look a lot different with the player moves and the consolidation of the Tri-State 2023 team.

Same dad two posts! Why don't you save us the time and tell us your Tri-State son moved to Blue Star to become 1 of the 30 on the team. RFH parents!

Actually, not the same dad, however, if Blue Star is going to have a 30 man roster again, it will be a long season with some very unhappy parents, especially the RFH parents

'23 Mad Dog won NXT Nightfall. Not the great competition but it looks like they picked up a few players. LSM was the best player at the tournament, not sure if he was a new addition from Tri-State.

Yes, not great competition, but a win nonetheless. I have not heard of any kids going from Tri-State to Mad Dog, only to Blue Star and Leading Edge

Heard Leading Edge tied the Annapolis Hawks over the weekend at UMD. That's a big improvement from last year. Blue Star sounds like they are going to be very competitive from the parent chatter. Fall ball tourneys will be a good test for them.

Leading Edge and BBL will be down at Battle on the Bay this weekend. Only other NJ team is Mad Dog '25. Will be interesting to see how NJ team fair.

It would be nice if the NJ club owners could put a couple of spring play-days together. Leading Edge should do it, would give them a view into what kids to go after for their High School teams.

Mad Dog's LSM is a stud, don't recall him last year. Could be the Turnpike kid that played for Tri-States WSYL team. He was a big pick up.

Mad Dog's LSM is a stud, don't recall him last year. Could be the Turnpike kid that played for Tri-States WSYL team. He was a big pick up. [/quote]

I do not think that it is the Tri-State LSM, but there is another very good local kid that was playing for Leading Edge south, I wonder if he moved to Mad Dog, if the kid is one of the taller players on the team, it could be him

Understand its only Fall but LeadingEdge Elite is the top '23 team in NJ now. CRoy worked to build this team and it will only get better. The only director you see at spring tournaments checking out the talent.

BBL has some small attack that will have problems all season. Do love the old school helmet, he is a player.. leaves it all out on the field.

There are definitely some talented kids on LE, but the the team plays an NLF heavy schedule in the summer, that will be the real litmus test playing against the MD and Mass. holdback/reclass teams

How did BBL look with their new additions.

Not good

Surprising considering the recent enthusiastic posts, perhaps the full roster is not playing fall season.

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet

So should I just rely on Tourney Machine and assume that BBL is not good because they had a terrible record last weekend, or should I take the time to ask a legitimate question, perhaps there is a valid reason that they did not do well.

I would consider every "team x picked up a few beasts and is going to be unbeatable this year" post as suspect. Nobody says anything nice on this forum and half the posters are trolls. The "how's team X going to be this year" posts are generally parents looking for confirmation of their choice of club. Or coaches looking for the same.

As for BBL at Battle on the Bay, they looked weak compared to their pool competition which doesn't mean they are a weak team but rather that they were playing above their level. Leading Edge looked better. Both teams will probably fair pretty well in Philly/NJ A tournaments.

BBL will be fine. They are outmatched athletically at the moment because all those teams at the Battle on the Bay are really freshmen aged. It’ll even out in a year or 2.

So should I just rely on Tourney Machine and assume that BBL is not good because they had a terrible record last weekend, or should I take the time to ask a legitimate question, perhaps there is a valid reason that they did not do well. [/quote]

I would consider every "team x picked up a few beasts and is going to be unbeatable this year" post as suspect. Nobody says anything nice on this forum and half the posters are trolls. The "how's team X going to be this year" posts are generally parents looking for confirmation of their choice of club. Or coaches looking for the same.

As for BBL at Battle on the Bay, they looked weak compared to their pool competition which doesn't mean they are a weak team but rather that they were playing above their level. Leading Edge looked better. Both teams will probably fair pretty well in Philly/NJ A tournaments.
[/quote]

NJ form is a little more civil than you are saying.
Two of the three NJ teams at Battle of the Bay played well. NJ has some good players and team at all levels. It would be nice for someone to create a tournament that draws the top NJ teams together.

I would consider every "team x picked up a few beasts and is going to be unbeatable this year" post as suspect. Nobody says anything nice on this forum and half the posters are trolls. The "how's team X going to be this year" posts are generally parents looking for confirmation of their choice of club. Or coaches looking for the same.

As for BBL at Battle on the Bay, they looked weak compared to their pool competition which doesn't mean they are a weak team but rather that they were playing above their level. Leading Edge looked better. Both teams will probably fair pretty well in Philly/NJ A tournaments.
[/quote]

NJ form is a little more civil than you are saying.
Two of the three NJ teams at Battle of the Bay played well. NJ has some good players and team at all levels. It would be nice for someone to create a tournament that draws the top NJ teams together. [/quote]

Agreed, for the most part, this is forum has remained respectful, lets try and keep it that way. Regardless of team/club, the LI and Md. folks will always look down on NJ lacrosse despite the number of players being recruited to top college programs from NJ. It would be interesting to compare the ratio of total club players in NJ vs. the number of NJ players recruited to play college compared with LI and Md...I bet that the numbers are not that far apart. That being said, the success of any NJ program at the out-of-state tournaments is good for NJ lacrosse as a whole.

Is black team considered the Elite team for BBL 2023

Yes

Not a Tri State or BBL parent but what happened at the game on Sunday. 8-3 Tri State,

Not sure whether it would have made a difference, but I think that BBL may have had an injury or two..Tri-State was just better that day, but there is always a next time.

Not trying to stir the pot, but I read a post in a 2024 forum discussing the BBL 2024 team beating Predators in the championship at Lehigh a few weeks ago. The post suggests that the BBL 2024 teams has some 14 year-old holdback/reclasses. I am assuming that this is just a disgruntled Predators parent, but are there any kids from last years BBL 2023 team that are playing 2024 this year.

Not sure why they have some small '23 playing attack.

Preds parents were not disgruntled. Actually they were really pleased that their kids played so well against the much older squad.

So are you a BBL parent confirming that there are older kids on the 2024 team....or a Preds parent trying to rationalize the loss..

No.

Don't think it is true but Preds shouldn't say anything. They have some very old '23 on this team.

But you know that Preds parents were happy and that BBL had a much older squad..makes sense

No holdbacks on BBL 2024. Several of the kids are big and look older, but they are on age.

I don't really care one way or other , but the fact that BBL 2024 is holding an open tryout for the world seris team in February indicates otherwise

That is not unusual, many clubs hold open tryouts for their WSYL teams, most teams have a kid or two that do not make the age cutoff, but are on-age based upon graduation year.

I disagree. there are only 2 teams in NJ, and one that no one knows, sending teams to the WSYL. Why wouldn't you hold a tryout to see what comes in? United, Patriot Elite, NJ Riot, Mad Dog are not sending teams. You pick up 5 to 8 kids from those teams and maybe BBL sends a team that goes over 500.

don't you think that sends a pretty bad message to the existing players? I don't know bbl directors from a whole in the wall, but to me, if your on age , and you tried out and made BBL elite, why would you now tell that kid, he is not welcome in Denver? plenty of kids for various reasons don't make the cutoff but are in 7th grade, and that's ok, find a replacement for that player

I don't know the director either. My guess, they are just looking to add players not replace. 13-year-old boys love the WSYL idea if BBL can pick up a couple of studs that play for other programs because they send a team to WSYL. That's called good marketing!

Keep in mind that you also have parents that do not want to spend the money on the trip, so even if a kid made the elite team, there may be reasons, money or otherwise, that they do not attend WSYL. Either way, putting a separate WSYL team together is not the best formula, the top teams at the event are usually teams that play together year round. Just ask the 91 or Express coaches how many practices their WSYL teams have before the tournament. The 91 Bandits are all on age and have played together for years, hard to compete with that level of experience.

You are correct but this is not Long Island or Maryland. It's Jersey, home of too many clubs and not enough level players.
Tri-State sends a team made up of Leading Edge, Tri-State, Turnpike and other clubs every year. They do OK.

Yes, a little more consolidation in NJ would be a good thing, but it's not going to happen. Much like Leading Edge with 91, I suspect that the national programs like True might make a push into NJ and look to combine with a NJ club, but I cannot see any any of the top NJ clubs merging. I know 3D now has some type of presence, but I have not heard that much about the teams.

Responding to the post stating that Preds 2024 "have some very old '23 on this team".
That is totally inaccurate. The team has a single summer birthday and that is it.
Not going to post some lame retaliatory statement, but that earlier accusation is not true,
This is not a holdback team. In fact, the NY teams are typically on-age programs.

I know a couple merciless programs outside of NY that stack their teams with holdbacks and either don't submit a team to WSYL or have to pathetically resort to separate tryouts or pull players from other teams/programs to fill an on-age roster.
Preds 2024 is not of that ilk. It is an on-age program

How many NJ teams are doing box lacrosse this winter? I know BBL has been doing it for awhile, but is there anyone else? How is that BBL team this year?

LE, Tri-State and Riot are typically in the mix as well, plus I believe that O2 is a NJ based team. Hard to get kids on board with winter sports commitments and the closest decent box events being in PA.

BBL is a big skilled team. Their size makes them a very tough out during box season.

Yes, but 02 & Riot have solid box programs. Would be interested to see if any are doing the Long Island 'battle in the barn' event to see them square up vs the LI Teams.

The 91 LI teams are typically at the bigger PA events, they usually beat everybody pretty handily. Sometimes, they enter 2 teams, both teams make the championship and they leave without playing the championship game. There are instances when some of the better NJ teams will give them a run, but it depends on the age group.

That's the Bandits. But last year they brought two teams but didn't have enough players and brought in 22's a few times. It was kind of bush league for a team that is that good to have to employ such underhanded tactics. This year they bailed from a tourney already. Not sure what's going on with them. The other 91 team plays box, but I've never seen any other LI teams play. Does Express or Igloo do box?

The tournaments with the 22's were 7/8 divisions. I do not recall seeing any other teams in the PA tournaments, but perhaps they just stay out on the Island, but I do not think that the other big clubs play a lot of box

Fake news!!! That never happened,

What never happened?

O2 Box have quickly become a strong box program in NJ..beating Penn and Superstars at levels. They hosted tourney last week with Road Warriors and another team from reservation..BBL and Sixers are only other NJ teams that are at tourneys..BBL is always good and Sixers are getting better..owned by Trilogy I think..

Patriot, O2 and BBL are only NJ teams going to Best in Box this upcoming weekend..teams like Riot don't exist anymore in box as far as NJ goes.

Funny how this discussion revolves around who is good at box or not. For all of these NJ clubs, box is used as a means of training for field lacrosse, they are not really box programs. My guess is that no parent in NJ is looking for their kid to move on to one of the professional box leagues. Anybody that has played one of the reservation teams or a true Canadian box program knows that the NJ, PA, LI, etc. box lacrosse that our kids play is not the real deal, no team from the tri-state area is going to compete with those teams. The perception that Penn Lax or Superstars are something special is misplaced, they are simply teams comprised of top players from many different clubs, i.e. they are just a collection of really good lacrosse players, not really good box lacrosse players. If you took the top kids from BBL, O2, LE, Tri-State, etc., you could create a team that would be very competitive, but nowhere near the talent of a legit box program.

I do agree that the reason for box lacrosse in the winter seasons is to become better in the field. It forces all of the players to be better in smaller spaces. No child has dreams on going to play professional box that is also true. What is not true is that our tri state area box teams can not compete with the Canadian or Reservation teams. According to Tourney Machine, Just last week at O2 Box Tournament, O2 Lacrosse beat Akwesasne Aces from the reservation during division play and Road Warriors beat them in the finals. So, clearly O2 and Road Warriors are doing something correct in order to compete and beat a team as such. That seems like pretty legit box lacrosse to me!

My son plays for O2 box. He has played up north as well as some NLL junior programs. I can say after being at the practices and tournaments that the O2 coaches are constantly teaching and have a lot of fun with the boys. He plays on the 9/10th grade team and they have been in the finals of all three tournaments so far. We plan on moving over to their field program because we are so happy with the box program. If you want authentic box I highly recommend them. Authentic box isn’t for everyone though if you are just looking to do something in Winter I wouldn’t try to play for them it will be to difficult.

Where do you think that Road Warriors are from?

They are from just outside of Philadelphia.

Interesting considering that the Road Warriors teams that play summer lax are mostly made up of kids from the Iroquois Nation

Canadian box lacrosse is significantly more physical than the box being played in places like philly. crosschecking with and without the ball is something most American boys have not seen. its borderline insane- I liken it very much to junior hockey in Canada where bench clearing brawls was very much a part of growing up. its not to say American boys cant compete, just that it may take some time to adjust

Road Warrior (Iroquois), Rising Sons (PA) and MSI (PA) have an affiliation...but my guess is that the Road Warriors team has a lot of First Nations kids, that's why they are good.

good to see 2024 LI team win the 2023 division at the eagles box tourney.

Except O2 actually imports players from the Iroquois (and Canada from what other O2 players have said) to supplement the DB kids as they can't compete with just NJ kids on the team.

After talking with another parent at the Best in Box, who was from Albany, O2 has actually gone out of their way to combine the best of talent from all over and integrate them with their own DB players which will elevate the entire program and translate to the field. Its actually a win win..everyone gets an opportunity to play and get better with their skills. Seems like a sound plan and given their success this winter, seems to be working. Also, I wasn't aware that this is only their second season as a program...they are leapfrogging other box and field programs in NJ. I may have my son tryout for field this upcoming summer.
Regarding tryouts-why have the tryout timelines gone from September timeline to early July. Some field programs are not even finished with their current summer schedule and having the following seasons tryouts already. How do you cut a kid for next year when he is still playing in his current season for their team. Anyone agree that tryouts should go back to the old model and happen after labor day? Fall lacrosse is bogus anyway, whats the rebels with all of these programs? I think its a money grab for all of these club teams in NJ.

I guess the issue is whether this is a sustainable model when you are bringing kids in to play with the team. As with other clubs that have gone down this road, you run the risk of bringing in "guest" players at the expense of full time kids. Not suggesting that this is the case with O2, but I have seen the damage done in programs like Dukes, Freedom, etc. As for leapfrogging other field programs in NJ, that remains to be seen, I realize that it is a young program, but there is no track record at any top national tournaments, not that it won't happen, but it has not happened yet. The other question I have, and not trying to stir the pot, but is there any sense in the O2 world that a kid is somewhat beholden to the club because the boys want a playing advantage at DB. Truthfully, if my son was at DB, I would definitely take this into consideration.

I know nothing about "bringing kids in" or how they go about pulling a team together and not sure why that would be of concern to any parent. I would just want my son, in the offseason, to be around the best to raise his skills. It doesn't make any difference about the model, its about getting kids better in the offseason and thats what is paramount. Worrying about a "model" sounds like its coming from business perspective-which is foreign to me. Get my kids around the best in the field and in the box so he becomes better and elevates his own game-simple.

As a parent, I want my son playing for the program that will provide him the best platform regardless of what high school he is attending. Best training, deep college relationships, best platform for tournaments where college recruiters will be attending..etc.. I would think, that as a club team, you would put on the field the best players that give you the best chance to win regardless of high school affiliation.

Anyone on tryouts after labor day instead of 4th of July?

The concern with bringing kids in to play, regardless of talent level, is that you end up with different line-ups every tournament. As a result, the team is unable to build any chemistry on the field. If kids are unfamiliar with their teammates, that directly affects their decision making on the field, which is a disadvantage in their development. I agree that it is preferable to play with the best kids that you can, and clubs certainly want to put the best product on the field, but having kids that show up and don't know the offense, defense, rides, clears, etc. is not any type of advantage. Not saying that this is an issue with O2, just offering my two cents based upon experience. And for what it's worth, looking at club lacrosse as a "model" makes all of the sense in the world, club lacrosse is a business, period. You may have great coach, team, etc., but the fact remains that they are in it to make a profit.

As for the high school affiliation, it is not a club issue, the question is whether a kid feels pressured to commit to a certain club to help his status on the high school team. For example, if your kid will only play third line middie for O2, but could start for BBL, would you keep him on O2 for fear that he would lose playing time at DB because he doesn't play for the DB coach's club. Again, not suggesting that anything like this would occur with O2 or DB, but it is certainly an issue with other clubs that have a connection to a high school program. Take Rumson-Fair Haven for example, I imagine that some might think that there is an advantage to playing for Leading Edge Elite because of their coach's affiliation with the club.

Any travel teams running a spring program or all town program?

Most NJ Club Teams do the NXT Spring League. I do not believe any teams run their own and not sure about the town programs.

BBL world series tryout was packed on Saturday- lots of talent. I think this team has a real chance of going far in Denver

Definitely right up there with the best teams at this age group

I don't think they lose too many players to age , should work out well, how many kids did they take from the tryout?

It's not the talent as much as chemistry. It is difficult to compete as a team that is put together in March when the top competition has been practicing and playing together for years. Of course, a team like BBL can have a good run at the WSYL, but it is an uphill battle. Also, you cannot equate the success of the BBL 2024 with the BBL WSYL team because it will not be the same players due to age restrictions. Yes, if the regular BBL 2024 team was the WSYL team, then it makes sense, but since they are having tryouts, obviously some of the regular 2024 kids do not make the cutoff. The regional qualifier is a good way to get a feel for the team, until then, I would back off on the assessment. Success at the qualifier also makes a huge difference in Denver as the teams are seeded based upon the qualifier. BBL's 2023 is a perfect example, they had a very tough schedule last year because of their qualifier finish.

I heard 8 to 12

That seems pretty high, but I understand that teams typically carry a larger than usual amount of kids as insurance against injury due to the fact that the roster is set at the qualifier. The downside is that you are asking a lot of families to pay up for an expensive trip, and their kid may see limited playing time. Also, if you are not a regular BBL player, there could be some concern that the loyalty of the BBL coaches will be with their own players.

This is so true. You want to be top 2 coming out of the east. Although, not sure how strong the West teams are this year. Last year, that True Illinois team was no joke so BBL had to contend with them and the #2 team from the North which ended up being the other finalist in Denver....

I think BBL is top 2 this year. Brotherly Love (PA) is the other.

Who cares, your going to get beat down by East teams if you can't bring your summer birthdays

This is probably true, plus, but don't discount the teams form the West either...Mad Dog West and Team Colorado have very good teams, and the MDW team has been playing together for a while with a lot of success

correction..Denver Elite

Assume you mean the North teams? BBL and BL are in the east. NY teams are in the North. Last year 2 east teams made the Quarter's and didn't get beat down by teams from the North. Lost, but not beat down.

Unfortunately, the WSYL event is not a very competitive event any longer. It was a great idea when it started but they can't get enough high caliber teams to commit to the event. It's fun, but it's not really a great measure for the best teams. If you are going, enjoy it. Don't worry about winning it all.

Who cares? The WSYL event has basically become a B level tourney. I doubt it will even be around in a few years.

The WSYL is an age based tournament, nothing more, nothing less. It is a great experience, so long as you put it into perspective. With the growth of the sport, I think that the event will be around for a while, especially if common sense prevails and lacrosse goes age based (I know, wishful thinking). Yes, there are lesser quality teams at the event, but their is also a lot of talent on the teams in the upper half of the pool. While I agree that you will not see the same level teams as you might at NLF, Crab Feast, Naptown and the like, chalking it up to a B level tournament is simply not true. Half the kids at the WSYL last year were at Naptown, 2023 National Championship and the NLF National Championship in July last year, certainly not B level players

OK, so it’s A- then. Whatever you want to call it. But it’s not a real championship like it claims to be.

Its an aged-based championship, and that's what it claims to be. Sure there are plenty of other championships like the Rising 8th grade event in Maryland and the NLF Championship, both of which probably meet your standards for and A level tournament, and they are very good tournaments, but they are so full of controversy with holdbacks, reclasses, guest players, etc. that they become somewhat of a joke. Just go and listen to the audio from last years 2023 NLF championship, it was laughable.

What is going on with Mad Dog 2023 team, word on the street is that the team imploded

Very sad, was a great group of kids. Letting the Manasquan coach leave didn't help, considering they are somewhat of a feeder program. Mad Dog struggles to keep their top players when they move into High School.

That is unfortunate, nice group of coaches as well

Did the players move to other clubs or just stop playing travel? They had 10 very good players.

Leading Edge, Tri-State & United. Leading Edge ended up with the top players

Seems like Leading Edge will have a pretty large roster with the additional bodies, might not be great for playing time. Regardless, there will probably be a lot of turnover next year when the competition for spots on teams like Leading Edge gets much more intense. Not really sure about the depth of the talent coming from Mad Dog as they did not play the same caliber tournaments as TriState and Leading Edge, especially Leading Edge with the NLF events, but I have heard that there were 2 or 3 really good players on the team.

The players leaving Mad Dog was not a reflection of the coaches or the program. The primary reason for them leaving was their teammates. You had players that would stay up all night before games, miss tryout, not run the wing on faceoffs and parents that used Mad Dog as their social outlet. Unfortunately, Mad Dog had no control over parents lack of parenting.

Very sad, was a great group of kids. Letting the Manasquan coach leave didn't help, considering they are somewhat of a feeder program. Mad Dog struggles to keep their top players when they move into High School. [/quote]

That is unfortunate, nice group of coaches as well[/quote]

Did the players move to other clubs or just stop playing travel? They had 10 very good players. [/quote]

Leading Edge, Tri-State & United. Leading Edge ended up with the top players [/quote]

Seems like Leading Edge will have a pretty large roster with the additional bodies, might not be great for playing time. Regardless, there will probably be a lot of turnover next year when the competition for spots on teams like Leading Edge gets much more intense. Not really sure about the depth of the talent coming from Mad Dog as they did not play the same caliber tournaments as TriState and Leading Edge, especially Leading Edge with the NLF events, but I have heard that there were 2 or 3 really good players on the team. [/quote]

The players leaving Mad Dog was not a reflection of the coaches or the program. The primary reason for them leaving was their teammates. You had players that would stay up all night before games, miss tryout, not run the wing on faceoffs and parents that used Mad Dog as their social outlet. Unfortunately, Mad Dog had no control over parents lack of parenting. [/quote]

It's definitely hard for a kid that loves the game to be surrounded by others that are not willing to put in the effort. Too much time and money spent to be frustrated every weekend, hopefully, it will be a better experience for the boys.

Ridiculous statement. It's the best of 2024, that are actually 2024 age. That's B level to you, just because they don't allow cheaters?? Your thinking is totally warped by all of the cheater teams. This is how it is suppose to be!!! That's how corrupt this sport has become. The cheating culture is ingrained with so many people, they actually think this is OK and is the norm. That is really very sad. The cheater teams shouldn't even exist. They are CHEATERS.