BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2012/Spring 2013

Have you ever heard of a big, fast kid with great stick skills and field IQ?

- "ITs actually one of the reasons colleges dont look at kids until 10th grade." -

News flash... College coaches are looking at kids before the 10th grade...

The facts are that by 8th grade it is what it is. The overwhelming majority of the best kids will remain the best kids throughout high school and thereafter. Yes there will be a rare exception who peaks late or regresses because they don't work hard. But it is rare.The exceptional one got there because they work that doesn't just stop. Puberty and size do not make much of a difference. You can believe whatever you want to make yourself feel better but this is reality. The good ones just don't stop working. Size can help but it cant make up for athleticism and work. The good ones got there that way and it just doesn't go away!!!

Some exceptional kids are committing in 9 th grade. Get used to it. It is not going to change whether you like it or not. Another news flash many of these early commits are not big kids at all. Look it up and you will see!! Better yet ask your 8th grader they will tell you.

So by your logic all the good 8th graders should be on Varsity? Relax Turtle dad, everything will be fine........

News flash, there are 6-10 kids from the 2016 class that have "verballed" so far...

The first one was a 6-2 175 Freshman from the Haverford school.

It doesnt cost the college anything to verbal a kid which keeps them ahead of the competition in the recruit race. Several big time Division 1 coaches have stated on the record they want to see the recruiting guidelines changed but they are recruiting younger and younger kids to keep up. Its just a matter of time before they change the rules and younger kids will be off limits.
Lets all relax here

The recent recruiting rule changes just released by the NCAA for implementation starting in August 2013 have actually enabled contact with younger players. Since the NCAA will now allow relaxed contact with players - including the so-called "passing the baton" rule - you can expect that freshman and sophomores will increasing become part of the recruiting mill.

Important Recruiting Rules Changes Issued by NCAA

Not a Turtle dad. My boys are all older. But I have been through it. Can't tell you guys anything. You will have to see for yourselves. Unless kids get hurt or stop working by 8 th grade you are what you are. Very few exceptions. As far as 8 th graders playing varsity ...you are missing the point. Success into the 8th grade predicts success later on in the vast majority. Some smaller districts are putting 8 th graders and freshman on varsity by the way.

Early recruiting is here to stay. Only going to continue to get earlier. In fact my older sons college coach said the trend will cont and NCAA is going to continue to make it easier for college coaches to contact younger players. Like it or not that is the way it is.

I am curious to see what is ( or will be) the transfer rates of these early commits. The biggest problem I have with early recruiting is that kids "commit" to schools based on lacrosse and not on academics or school type (fit for them). All recruiters stress that the school you should select is the one that if lacrose ended tomorrow, you would still be happy there. How would a 9th grader know? My feeling is an 11th grader is more mature and more able to see the big picture - lacrosse can be a way to get into a reach school but ultimately academics gets you to the next step - the real world. Transferring from one school or another is not the end of the world, but it does create unnecessary stresses on the student and family - like finishing out a semester at your current school although you may be miserable.
Just my 2 cents.

Not until you made mention of it...thanks for the revelation.

So what your saying is that unless your a stud in 8th grade you have no shot of being a impact player at the next level? Absurd logic you have there. Our high school Varsity coach doesnt even look at kids until there at least the JV level unless they are a true freak of nature.

If you talk to the D1 coaches they will tell you they would rather not have to talk to the younger kids but the present circumstances demand it.

My son is a very good 8th grade player and I would be happy if he has a good high school career and hopefully ends up playing college lacrosse at some level. You people who think your 8th graders are automatic D1 starters are out of your minds. So much time left and so many things that can happen. Enjoy the ride and try and stay away from putting unrealistic expectations on your child. Putting stress on a 13yr old kid so you can live vicariously through your child is borderline child neglect.

Oh and by the way, I dont know what is more disturbing the fact that if you dont have kids at this age group you would be trolling on this forum, or if you do have kids at this age group you would lie about it.

Why the personal attack dude? Quite disturbing really.

Can anyone provide any information on any. of the Long Island boys who went down to this weeks last 3d camp (new England region)?

There was tell that a few (elite team) players were going to try and increase their odds by going down this weekend.

Why not play with the mid Atlantic region they are from??

I don't know anybody who went to florida multiple times for this tryout. But, it wouldn't surprise me if a few over zealous parents tried it a couple of times if their son didn't do well one weekend. Good for them if they have those kinds of financial resources and time. However, there were a number of long island boys at the tryout for all 4 grades. I would imagine that many were like us, not being able to make the mid-Atlantic because of some kind of a conflict, illness, injury etc.. The directors of the program specifically allow flexibility in which date you attend if they have room. We were there this past weekend and I would say the talent level was excellent - you get no break trying to "game" the system by trying to guess which region would be the "easiest". First, you have to remember that your son is being judged not only against players at the same camp but also from all other previous camps. So, there is no way to slant the odds in your favor by making a bet as to which region is easiest. Even if that weren't the case - I can attest that the boys from Canada, upstate New [lacrosse] and New England are very, very good and some of the best players there this past weekend.

If you are a "stud" (or outstanding player) in 8th grade, you have the advantage. You are this good, most likely, because of hard work and natural talent. By 8th grade you are probably on one of the top teams with great coaching & other talented players that pushes you to work harder. These teams play in the higher levels during tournaments. All of this added up = stronger player in the up coming years. Are there exceptions to this "rule", of course! There will be a lot of movement in the next couple of years & few kids will "come out of the blue" but, the core "Studs" will still be there in HS. Your HS coach doesn't look at younger kids, some others do. & BTW there are quite a few "true freaks of nature" (as you would so nicely put it) @ this grade level.

Some kids are that good & they are on a D1 path already. Good for them! Hearing some of their "nutty" parents bragging about it on here is annoying but, nothing will change them. We will all have to put up with them for the nexr 4 years or so.

& honestly, I dont find it dusturbing that someone with older kids is on this forum. I like to hear someones opinion "who has been there". Again, the next couple/few years will be very interesting!

What difference does it make? Should they only go to college in the area they are from as well?

your sad.

Why sad? (It's "you're"; BTW),
The question remains: why take your so called very elite team players to try and get a spot to the JR camp via playing outside of your own very competitive region?

Has it not been stated on this forum numerous times that to be the best, you must play the best?

Is it not fair to claim that we have some or most of the best right here in our back yards on Long Island?

Why then, would one consider doing the above (scheduling "conflicts" aside)?

Which then, is sad; the concept being questioned or the actual participating in such backdoor antics?

what is sad is your accusatory undertone and attempt to discredit some kids veiled in what seemed to be a innocent question of how some boys did in the "New England" region tryout, which is a bit misleading as it's clearly called the Northeast region.
You posses no facts of any kind regarding these kids situations and ignore many legitimate reasons kids would need to attend other regions (academics, family conflicts, illness, injury, etc)in your original post. As was mentioned in an earlier post the camp is more than flexible when accommodating these conflicts so whats the issue. There there seems very little room to game the system with the evaluation process they have in place and with numbers of spots you just can't fly under the radar.
Now in the case that parents attended this region to allow there kids to stand out in some perceived weakness. I can see why you would be upset, they are obviously smarter than you.

If they are better than the boys from the "New England Region" and get selected, they obviously deserved it. If they didnt go outside their region, than less talented boys from the "New England Region" would have made it. The objective of the promoters is to get the best, regardless of where they come from or which group they tryout with.

Your blithering rhetoric not withstanding; it should be clear to your uninformed mind that the long island region falls within the mid Atlantic classification. Period. Thus, let the kids earn their spots from their own regions. yes, I know what the rules say...spare us.

Smarter than me; not likely by a far shot; deceptive and disingenuous....??? Much more likely. What can be said of you, he who points fingers and labels others?

Care to retort in an equally enlightened manner, pray tell? Methinks not.

Save your breath.

Wow, that was better than a presidential debate!
To stay on point, do we have an Idea when they will announce the results of the camp? Has there been any feedback at all from the 3D directors posted anywhere?

He's baaack!!!!

I'm not sure this is not a true statement. This is how it its been described to me. It does not matter what region you attend since all boys are evaluated individuaolly against the enitre pool of roughly 600+ that were signed up to participate in the process. Contrary to what you just wrote, in theory (not realistic though), if there was one weekend were all the boys were "weak", there would be no (zero) boys selected from that weekend. The "best of the worst" would not be selected just because they were there. Additionally, if you had a case where there was one kid who looked above average agasint a pool of weak players, that one kid might still not make it because he didn't rank as high as the boys in his position from the other 4 weekends. Conversely, if a strong player doesn't "light it up" against a very strong pool of talent on a given weekend, he might still make it through because he showed enough against great talent that particular weekend. There is no set amount of boys who are selected from each weekend - again, in theory it could be zero for a given weekend. So, it doesn't matter what region you go to because your son's individual grade is judged against the entire pool across all weekends. Bottom line - on average if they are taking 120 from the roughly 600 attendees in each grade, your chances are about 4 in 5 or 80% that you DONT make it. Not easy - congrats to those who make it through.

Does anyone know if and when boys will be contacted ? Will they send an email if they don't make the camp? Any info would be helpful ty

The camp packet said there will be emails sent out by March 1st informing the boys whether they made it or not. It went on to say if you do not hear something by March 8th to contact them. To answer an earlier question there hasnt been any feedback or communication from the evaluators that I am aware of, the whole thing has been pretty tight lipped.

The camp was a great experience, even if my kid doesnt make it Im glad we went and he is definitely a better player for it. Good luck to all of the boys that competed.

Actually there were 3D tweets about six players from the mid-atlantic weekend.

From what i understand roughly 20-24 kids per region will be selected to attend JR120 (now 240) and the other 120 will need to go through the process again.

What do you mean 240? They are taking a total of 120 kids for the 2017 Age group. You just confused everyone. They also made it clear they were not taking a set amount of kids from any of the regions.

As to the tweets about players from the Mid Atlantic, havent seen anything like that on the 3D twitter feed, maybe you can enlighten us

this is how it was described to me by one of the directors...

Look at Matt Rowley 3D (Team Steak) twitter feed. He is one of the National Evaluators for 2017. Also, in terms of the other question above, is it 120 kids for 2017 and 240 for grades above (120 directly invited by Jake Reed and another 120 identified from the regional 3D camps). Hope this helps.

what is sad is your accusatory undertone and attempt to discredit some kids veiled in what seemed to be a innocent question of how some boys did in the "New England" region tryout, which is a bit misleading as it's clearly called the Northeast region.
You posses no facts of any kind regarding these kids situations and ignore many legitimate reasons kids would need to attend other regions (academics, family conflicts, illness, injury, etc)in your original post. As was mentioned in an earlier post the camp is more than flexible when accommodating these conflicts so whats the issue. There there seems very little room to game the system with the evaluation process they have in place and with numbers of spots you just can't fly under the radar.
Now in the case that parents attended this region to allow there kids to stand out in some perceived weakness. I can see why you would be upset, they are obviously smarter than you.




[/quote]

Your blithering rhetoric not withstanding; it should be clear to your uninformed mind that the long island region falls within the mid Atlantic classification. Period. Thus, let the kids earn their spots from their own regions. yes, I know what the rules say...spare us.

Smarter than me; not likely by a far shot; deceptive and disingenuous....??? Much more likely. What can be said of you, he who points fingers and labels others?

Care to retort in an equally enlightened manner, pray tell? Methinks not.

Save your breath. [/quote]

I would say as disingenuous as your attempt to find out how some "kids" did down at the camp, to then what? write how proud you are they competed well or more likely tear them down. "They're" kids my friend, your attempt to discredit teenage boys is like I said. Sad..
when it comes down to it these competitive camps do not discriminate, if your good your good. If you sneak in somehow you will be exposed. with a 120 kids there will be nowhere to hide.

Inaccurate information is making this confusing. With the 2017's (current 8th grade) the only way to go to Jake Reed is through 3d as there are NO invites from Jake. Also, there is very little if not any interest from college coaches at that age. It's the following year when Jake sends out his invites that's important. If you don't get invite, then it may be worth going to 3d and showing what you have. This year, though, for 2017, it doesn't really matter.

Your blithering rhetoric not withstanding; it should be clear to your uninformed mind that the long island region falls within the mid Atlantic classification. Period. Thus, let the kids earn their spots from their own regions. yes, I know what the rules say...spare us.

Smarter than me; not likely by a far shot; deceptive and disingenuous....??? Much more likely. What can be said of you, he who points fingers and labels others?

Care to retort in an equally enlightened manner, pray tell? Methinks not.

Save your breath. [/quote]

I would say as disingenuous as your attempt to find out how some "kids" did down at the camp, to then what? write how proud you are they competed well or more likely tear them down. "They're" kids my friend, your attempt to discredit teenage boys is like I said. Sad..
when it comes down to it these competitive camps do not discriminate, if your good your good. If you sneak in somehow you will be exposed. with a 120 kids there will be nowhere to hide. [/quote]

your phillipic platitudes are bereft of any substantiation of the original statement. In fact, it was an assumption on your part as to the intent of the statement. It was simply stated that there were players attempting to gain more visibility via a region that is not as strong in the sport generally. You are correct in that there will be no place to hide; however, your attempts to insinuate a planned discreditation of said kids is inappropriate and inaccurate.

thank you.

Thank you!!!!

Its been said before but the thread seems to continue with the notion that the Mid-Atlantic region is the "strongest". That is a serious miscalculation if you are going with that. I've personally seen the West Coast, Mid Atlantic and Northeast camps. I'll be very clear - there is NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE from one region to the next. Check out the D1 and D3 rosters as well as the verbal lists on insidelacrosse - college coaches are giving the Heisman stiff arm to NY/Baltimore kids in favor of kids from the other regions. Its a fact.

I would say as disingenuous as your attempt to find out how some "kids" did down at the camp, to then what? write how proud you are they competed well or more likely tear them down. "They're" kids my friend, your attempt to discredit teenage boys is like I said. Sad..
when it comes down to it these competitive camps do not discriminate, if your good your good. If you sneak in somehow you will be exposed. with a 120 kids there will be nowhere to hide. [/quote]

your phillipic platitudes are bereft of any substantiation of the original statement. In fact, it was an assumption on your part as to the intent of the statement. It was simply stated that there were players attempting to gain more visibility via a region that is not as strong in the sport generally. You are correct in that there will be no place to hide; however, your attempts to insinuate a planned discreditation of said kids is inappropriate and inaccurate.

thank you. [/quote]

if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... its a duck..

If you spoke to the evaluators at 3D/blue chip they all said the 2017 mid-Atlantic group was by far the strongest that they had seen. That's a fact. Other years maybe not but 2017 by far the best. Ask any parent or kid that was in Florida with the Mid-Atlantic group and they will say the evaluators and people who ran it said that. THAT IS A FACT. ....not our words .....their words.

I second that, and being down there and watching those kids play its hard to imagine a group to compete with that one

While interest and participation in lacrosse is growing across the country, the statement that "college coaches are giving the Hesiman stiff arm to NY?Blatimore kids in favor of kids from other regions" in not a fact as expressed by this person. In fact, of 367 roster postions at Cornell, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Mayland, Syracuse, UNC, and UVA, 172 come from either NY or MD (47% of the rosters). If we add in CT, DE, PA, and VA, another 96 roster spots are filled. Nearly 73% of the current roster spots at arguably the top lacrosse schools come from the traditional hot-bed regions. As lacrosse expands into other parts of the country, I'm sure this will change (as I'm sure it has changed from 20 years ago). But , college coaches are realists and will continue to draw from MD and NY as long as the level of lacrosse remains high.