BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021 - 9th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

Who knows how they would have done IF they didn't have Black Ice players filling in for them last season - not sure you can gauge . . .? Also, not sure anyone is gunning for Avalanche - Igloo hangs their hat on Black Ice, which is deserved as they are probably the best team on LI for their age. If you are being drawn to Avalanche for what you claim, you may be disappointed. Unless they have talent that wasn't at tryouts, person I know who was there wasn't impressed - couple solid players, but nothing else to wrote home about.

Last year they tied the Oitlaws B team. They were clearly a B team even with Black Ice kids added to the team. Their best players from last year either left or are not playing travel anymore. From what is being said they took a major step backwards from last year. Expect them to be a C or B minus team this year playing the weaker teams.

If you are happy for him and don't mind footing the bill then don't worry about the rest. A, B, C team who cares, they are only kids once so let them enjoy it.

The Tide team is the best bargain out there,

So how was the 1st practice got 2 great coaches I am sure it went well

The team is already losing players that are having second thoughts about playing with them...

Hope it works out for the kids. My bet is the Black Ice kids will fill in at tournaments to field a team. The question is who will play more the Avalanche or Black Ice kids?

What team is losing players?

Igloo Avalanche

your a trouble maker go back in your HOLE S.D. !!! LOSER

Stating facts is being a trouble maker? I am not affiliated with now nor ever have been with the team or club, but I personally know what I posted to be true. Ignoring what is happening will not change the facts . . .

The practice went well. Coaching is solid.
Not aware of any people leaving
It seemed there was a full team.
Plus 2 goalies.
To early to tell on team chemistry.
Substituting players from Ice.
Would not be fair to the kids.
Unless we were short handed for an event To me short handed would be not having 2 full lines of defense or middy

Think about B team is there room for improvement. And at this age there still getting hair on the B_lls.

And if they scrimmage Black Ice it always good to play the best

Athletes and good coaching. It just a matter of time

Not knowing facts and making a statement is being a trouble maker GO BACK IN YOUR HOLE ..... S.D.

"not aware" doesn't mean it isn't happening (or already happened!) - I know one player by name that is leaving and he said there was at least one other player leaving (and they both weren't at the practice). Reasoning given was that the team was weaker than than they were comfortable with/accustomed to playing with. Doesn't mean that's a bad thing - seems to indicate that your "B team" comment is more in line with what they have. The problem will be if that is NOT the expectations (realistic or nor) of others on the team. Repeat: there is nothing wrong with playing on a B level team. BTW, 6 poles is too many unless you play the entire game in your own end! Same rationale with A! Most teams optimally look for 9 M, 5 D, 5 A and 2 G (unless you're Express, and then you just double most of these numbers!); you can add in 1 more M for LPM and 1 of your poles should also be able to play LPM.

Agreed on the whole premise. This is a B team. One of my son's friends was really excited to make it. He is a great athlete and raw talent, and this will be perfect for him. They will do well, and play B tournaments outside of the area for the most part.

I disagree with the 5 poles and 5 attack. You need 6 and 6 in case anyone gets hurt. I have seen it before where teams show up with 3 poles because two kids were hurt and when one of the poles has a penalty you're handing a pole to a middie. Rotate on time, there are 3-4 games in a tournament.

Maybe it's because my sons' teams have never had any injuries at either position, but all of their teams have had only 5 at both positions and in both cases the 5th D and A see very little time. Also, the LPM(s) on their teams have always been able to play D, and at least 1 or 2 M could play A if needed. I stand by the 21 - 22 roster being optimal.

If they are good at evaluating talent, they would rotate the 2 lines of defense and attack. The first line will usually see more playing time than the second. My son's team just lost 2 attack because and 2 mids because they weren't happy with their playing time. The team picked up better players and I can see playing time being pretty even between the lines now. When you play 4 games in a row, having the subs is really good. I guess it depends on how deep the team is and what the philosophy of the coach is.

Forgive me on the B team I was going off the old system

With the Travel Teams new ranking system AA, A

We would be an A team

And we will do just fine

See you all at the Blalant Fall Jam

AA is not its own tier! It's a subset of A, comprised of the best/elite teams in A. Any system where there are only a single digit number of teams in a tier is just f'in dumb. With that in mind, Avalanche is probably B+ at best.

everybody is going by the AA A ranking system. Avalanche is a B team

A tier system with only a handful of teams in the top tier on LI is beyond dumb - keep perpetuating dumb, though!

Not at all. Black Ice, Blaze, Express and ICON are in a class by themselves. Outlaws, Legacy, Express North, Empire, Ambush are the next tier. Everyone else falls to the third tier. When teams like this are grouped together they are competitive. When they play up or down, there is a huge difference in the scores. So whether you want to call it A B C D or AA A B C is irrelevant.

Not SD - wth?? I have names of the kids leaving and they are facts - keep on denying, though!

Let's repeat this for the dense: there is no argument about the top teams being good if not great. That still doesn't justify not categorizing teh next level teams down as still being in the a top tier. It's kind of like saying that the only top 2 teams in a pro sports championship are worthy of being called professional level.

ICON??? Where are they from never even heard of them

If you haven't heard of ICON, then you have no clue of who the best teams are at this age group. They used to be one of the top three, but lost some key players. They are Garden City and Rockville Centre kids, well coached, and played together since they were in 1st or 2nd grade. They took a huge step back last year. I think some of the kids went to Express because of the Catholic School connection.

that's funny aren't some of the best kids on that team from Franklin Square?

Yes one of the best coaching staffs around

One team that you have in the second tier has played a couple of the teams in the first tier close. That's why the AA system does not work. The top two teams in tier two can be grouped with tier one which are the A teams. They can and have played close games with top tier teams but also get blown out too. The others are B adding a few teams you did not mention. The rest are C. Also One team you mention in the top tier is more like the old Wild Katz or Saints teams. Some great players but they their main team is a different team. You can't be a top tier team not having a lot of practice or play only a few tournaments because they have to work their schedule around other teams or else they can't field a team. It will be interesting to see this season because from what I am hearing a couple of teams in your second tier replaced some original kids that were hurting them a lot with some good players. Let's see what happens in the fall. This may be the year some teams move up and some move down.

I'm surprised at the movement this year. It seems that many of the teams upgraded at some key positions, but some teams also lost key players to the top tier teams. My son's team replaced 5 key spots, and lost one of their best players to the AA team. I can tell you some of the players that they didn't want back were good players, but either had attitude issues or just couldn't work well with the other players. I really couldn't tell you where we will be this year until we see them in some tournaments. It should be a fun year.

This is all True. There is at least one second tier team that should be in the first tier that at times played one or two goal games against the top tier but also once or twice got blown out. Here is something no one has considered. The top 4 teams are older with hold backs and many late 2002 or early 2003 birth dates. Some of these younger teams kids in the tier two will start to grow over the next year. By summer the size and speed advantage of the top teams may be less especially with that one team that we all know who on occasion has played some of the top 4 to close games. So fall will show us the immediate impact of the roster changes but we may have to wait until summer to see the improvement when these younger kids enter the next 10 month growth spurt that the top tier team kids have already had since they are older.

Don't think icon took any steps backwards yes they lost a top kid but really gain some size. They did beat the express pretty good which is the team the one kid went to. Overall a real top team they have about the top def in grade 2-3 top attackman solid mids and goalie and the best coaches in age group.

[/quote]

A tier system with only a handful of teams in the top tier on LI is beyond dumb - keep perpetuating dumb, though! [/quote]

Not at all. Black Ice, Blaze, Express and ICON are in a class by themselves. Outlaws, Legacy, Express North, Empire, Ambush are the next tier. Everyone else falls to the third tier. When teams like this are grouped together they are competitive. When they play up or down, there is a huge difference in the scores. So whether you want to call it A B C D or AA A B C is irrelevant. [/quote]

One team that you have in the second tier has played a couple of the teams in the first tier close. That's why the AA system does not work. The top two teams in tier two can be grouped with tier one which are the A teams. They can and have played close games with top tier teams but also get blown out too. The others are B adding a few teams you did not mention. The rest are C. Also One team you mention in the top tier is more like the old Wild Katz or Saints teams. Some great players but they their main team is a different team. You can't be a top tier team not having a lot of practice or play only a few tournaments because they have to work their schedule around other teams or else they can't field a team. It will be interesting to see this season because from what I am hearing a couple of teams in your second tier replaced some original kids that were hurting them a lot with some good players. Let's see what happens in the fall. This may be the year some teams move up and some move down.
[/quote]

I'm surprised at the movement this year. It seems that many of the teams upgraded at some key positions, but some teams also lost key players to the top tier teams. My son's team replaced 5 key spots, and lost one of their best players to the AA team. I can tell you some of the players that they didn't want back were good players, but either had attitude issues or just couldn't work well with the other players. I really couldn't tell you where we will be this year until we see them in some tournaments. It should be a fun year. [/quote]

This is all True. There is at least one second tier team that should be in the first tier that at times played one or two goal games against the top tier but also once or twice got blown out. Here is something no one has considered. The top 4 teams are older with hold backs and many late 2002 or early 2003 birth dates. Some of these younger teams kids in the tier two will start to grow over the next year. By summer the size and speed advantage of the top teams may be less especially with that one team that we all know who on occasion has played some of the top 4 to close games. So fall will show us the immediate impact of the roster changes but we may have to wait until summer to see the improvement when these younger kids enter the next 10 month growth spurt that the top tier team kids have already had since they are older.[/quote]

Which again points out the idiocy of only considering a handful of teams as being in the top tier (not the bext of the top tier!).

Not at all. Black Ice, Blaze, Express and ICON are in a class by themselves. Outlaws, Legacy, Express North, Empire, Ambush are the next tier. Everyone else falls to the third tier. When teams like this are grouped together they are competitive. When they play up or down, there is a huge difference in the scores. So whether you want to call it A B C D or AA A B C is irrelevant. [/quote]

One team that you have in the second tier has played a couple of the teams in the first tier close. That's why the AA system does not work. The top two teams in tier two can be grouped with tier one which are the A teams. They can and have played close games with top tier teams but also get blown out too. The others are B adding a few teams you did not mention. The rest are C. Also One team you mention in the top tier is more like the old Wild Katz or Saints teams. Some great players but they their main team is a different team. You can't be a top tier team not having a lot of practice or play only a few tournaments because they have to work their schedule around other teams or else they can't field a team. It will be interesting to see this season because from what I am hearing a couple of teams in your second tier replaced some original kids that were hurting them a lot with some good players. Let's see what happens in the fall. This may be the year some teams move up and some move down.
[/quote]

I'm surprised at the movement this year. It seems that many of the teams upgraded at some key positions, but some teams also lost key players to the top tier teams. My son's team replaced 5 key spots, and lost one of their best players to the AA team. I can tell you some of the players that they didn't want back were good players, but either had attitude issues or just couldn't work well with the other players. I really couldn't tell you where we will be this year until we see them in some tournaments. It should be a fun year. [/quote]

This is all True. There is at least one second tier team that should be in the first tier that at times played one or two goal games against the top tier but also once or twice got blown out. Here is something no one has considered. The top 4 teams are older with hold backs and many late 2002 or early 2003 birth dates. Some of these younger teams kids in the tier two will start to grow over the next year. By summer the size and speed advantage of the top teams may be less especially with that one team that we all know who on occasion has played some of the top 4 to close games. So fall will show us the immediate impact of the roster changes but we may have to wait until summer to see the improvement when these younger kids enter the next 10 month growth spurt that the top tier team kids have already had since they are older.[/quote]

What team are you referencing when you state, "especially with that one team that we all know"? Also, how can you say the "top 4" teams are older? Multiple impact players from these teams have summer 2003 birthdays. And I am sure you know that every kid matures at a different rate. Out of the "top 4", I believe Igloo and 91 played each other and Express and Icon only played each other once this past summer. I may be missing some match ups.

Icon lost 3 kids to Express last yearF

One team that you have in the second tier has played a couple of the teams in the first tier close. That's why the AA system does not work. The top two teams in tier two can be grouped with tier one which are the A teams. They can and have played close games with top tier teams but also get blown out too. The others are B adding a few teams you did not mention. The rest are C. Also One team you mention in the top tier is more like the old Wild Katz or Saints teams. Some great players but they their main team is a different team. You can't be a top tier team not having a lot of practice or play only a few tournaments because they have to work their schedule around other teams or else they can't field a team. It will be interesting to see this season because from what I am hearing a couple of teams in your second tier replaced some original kids that were hurting them a lot with some good players. Let's see what happens in the fall. This may be the year some teams move up and some move down.
[/quote]

I'm surprised at the movement this year. It seems that many of the teams upgraded at some key positions, but some teams also lost key players to the top tier teams. My son's team replaced 5 key spots, and lost one of their best players to the AA team. I can tell you some of the players that they didn't want back were good players, but either had attitude issues or just couldn't work well with the other players. I really couldn't tell you where we will be this year until we see them in some tournaments. It should be a fun year. [/quote]

This is all True. There is at least one second tier team that should be in the first tier that at times played one or two goal games against the top tier but also once or twice got blown out. Here is something no one has considered. The top 4 teams are older with hold backs and many late 2002 or early 2003 birth dates. Some of these younger teams kids in the tier two will start to grow over the next year. By summer the size and speed advantage of the top teams may be less especially with that one team that we all know who on occasion has played some of the top 4 to close games. So fall will show us the immediate impact of the roster changes but we may have to wait until summer to see the improvement when these younger kids enter the next 10 month growth spurt that the top tier team kids have already had since they are older.[/quote]

Which again points out the idiocy of only considering a handful of teams as being in the top tier (not the bext of the top tier!).[/quote]

One question for you......did Taz catch up to Crush this year? I don't think any of the "second tier" teams will catch up to the "top 4".

we will see what happens. It is hard to make a statement that no one will catch up without seeing the changes each team made and how the kids have matured. Crush is not nearly as dominant as they once were and I think we can all agree no 2021 team was at the Crush level at this age. Since teams in 2020 are playing crush closer in 9th and soon to be 10th grade it is not a reach to say some of the top 4 may be beat this year by number 5 or 6.

Are we talking LI or national now? The only teams that competed with Crush are non LI teams loaded with should be 2019s. The previous poster alleged the top 4 LI teams are older then the so called second tier teams, therefore the Crush vs Taz analogy is appropriate. 91, Igloo and Express (when healthy) are not losing to any other Li teams. I may be proven wrong but I doubt it. Guess it would be better for LI lax if there was more parity. Again, unless there are 20 Miles Jones waiting in the wings somewhere undiscovered, it ain't happening.

And then went on to beat them. I was only aware of 2 that left and one doesn't get much playing time at Express. If there is a third who left I can't imagine he gets much playing time either.

Icon didn't take a hit from their departure at all.

Who is saying icon is not as good as they were? Most teams loose kids then the kids are replaced. No one is saying the top teams are getting worse. The argument is that some of the teams people say are numbers 5 or 6 got much better by player upgrades and returning kids finally hitting puberty. These second tier teams will improve just by catching up in physical development alone over the next year. The top 4 teams have more kids that have already hit puberty and may be almost done in physical development compared to the next set of ranked teams. That will even out soon enough. Will it be enough to change rankings? Maybe. Time will tell.

"If you haven't heard of ICON, then you have no clue of who the best teams are at this age group. They used to be one of the top three, but lost some key players. They are Garden City and Rockville Centre kids, well coached, and played together since they were in 1st or 2nd grade. They took a huge step back last year. I think some of the kids went to Express because of the Catholic School connection."

Response re: Icon was to all the comments about them losing players to Express, not just the one quoted. This person clearly states : "They took a huge step back"... You are right time will tell, but Icon doesn't have many huge kids, there is one big talented defender, otherwise they are on the small side, just very athletic.