BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Holdbacks

So every age group and club post eventually leads to the holdback reclass issue. Admin starts a new thread for the holdback issue and it leads to debating if a club team is as good as Duke or Army??? Strange days ahead

Just go to Birth Year instead of Grade year already...

Bingo

[quote=Anonymous]Agreed. What's the point of playing for any school in D1 outside the top10. The same schools basically win every year. If your kid want's the chance to actually win a championship, and you can get over the point of being an idiot parent who only cares about bragging about your kid, let them go D2, a top school and they can actually win something they will have the rest of their lives. A championship as well as a great education. But i'm assuming you are also likely that dad at every tournament who carries around a stick for absolutely no reason. There are always a few.


I do not care about your other points but I like to carry around my sons back up stick. I do not like to sit down in a beach chair and drag it from field to field. I never played lacrosse so I am not reliving anything. Just wanted to stick up for the guys who like walking sticks at tournaments.

You rant about bs, because your kid plays for a youth or hs b level club team, you are bored, you are an idiot, and you are pretty sure he won't even attain hs success eventually. If your kid was in college, you wouldn't even be on here, nor would the word holdback occupy one second in your mind on any given day.

You rant about bs, because your kid plays for a youth or hs b level club team, you are bored, you are an idiot, and you are pretty sure he won't even attain hs success eventually. If your kid was in college, you wouldn't even be on here, nor would the word holdback occupy one second in your mind on any given day. [/quot
Clearly the true hurts, you most likely have kids that are real social freaks.

This is so True and GREAT statement.

Well our team/club voted to just play in age based tournaments this year. No more Hogan etc. We will likely need to travel a bit farther away from the holdback hotbed, but happy to do it. All you holdback teams can continue your foolish arms race to see how many older kids you can get and win the big title. Good luck. And for the holdback enthusiast trolls, don't you see all the parents of the on-age kids on your team laughing behind your backs? It really is sadly pathetic and feel bad for your child. Those on-age kids on the top teams are the real deal, and we all know it.

whats the common thing about the hold backs? They all go to private schools!

What schools are considered the best academically ..... private schools!

Who's laughing now? The private school kid who your son will be working for someday.

How many 2017 public school grads in Maryland went to D1 college programs last year? How many private?

Considered by who to be the best academically? The same parents who pay for it? Not based in fact at all in this area unless your data point for comparison is Baltimore city schools in which case would agree but several of the surrounding Counties offer equal and at times a better education as evidenced in test scores when comparing like students, they offer more in terms of advanced courses and AP courses due to economies of scale. Both have tangible and intangible other positive and negative factors about them but academics are not superior at the Baltimore private schools. Sports yes as many of the schools offer athletes scholarships and they fill the teams with known elite athletes in the area. Will not go into it in depth here as this topic has been beaten to death on these forums but you really should check your facts prior to posting broad generalizations. You pay for some great things as private schools including smaller class sizes but it really is more about if you feel that your child is best served by a private school that is great but respect that others in outlying counties choose public schools for specific reasons, including the academics, even if offered private school scholarships or money is not an issue.

What a joke of a post. I have a feeling your kid is in a private school for the wrong reasons. The complaining about hold backs in HS/College is pointless. Wankers like you keep it going

Sincerely,

Parent of 2 private school kids who didn't get held back

Please keep in mind that many kids from what you call surrounding counties and outlying counties go to private schools, most of which are in Baltimore County, a few in Howard and Harford and AA Counties. Those parents have a choice and went for private for whatever reason served their child best. The majority of the kids in private are not receiving scholarships.

If you send your kid to a public school and you are complaining about hold backs.....look in the mirror ! Its your fault.

Whats that mean?? We should be sending our on age kid to private school to help out with stats?

two year spreads was because not enough kids were playing back in the stone age...not a problem anymore...play on age...bunch of cheaters who play down

This should break it down for you. Long live the Holdback

Relative age effect - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect

That private school tuition being utilized here a I see; pulling out Wikipedia as a reference tool. Money well spent Dad!!

This means what everyone keeps saying, At youth sports there is an advantage to being the oldest ..That is why all the holdback apologists want it to be by grade. Then their select holdback children will have even more of an advantage over others.than the oldest on age child does .

Yep..This is a good reason to let select children have an advantage. Forget what Youth sports stands for. Lets carve out a select few and see how they do.

It’s this type of social bullying philistine attitude that permeates lacrosse culture. Social freaks? Do you mean “nerds” smart kind kids?
Mark zuckerberg, steve jobs, bill gates, elon musk? Those social freaks? Lacrosse is a game NOT life

Honestly the choice to hold back a child for acedemic or athletic reasons is up to the kid and his parents if you think that this is horrible and unfair then holdback your kid. When your kid is grown up and you are old this 5 year span in his life won't matter that much. At the end of the day arguing over trivial matters likes this on a forum is a waste of your time.

Straw-man argument like most holdback apologists reasons.

No one cares what you do with your child, Hold him/her back 5 times. Who cares...

But why does that give you a special right to play against younger children in YOUTH sports that are BORN on same day as your holdback/prefirst child. Letting select kids play down goes against all that youth sports stand for. If your child gets a special advantage, all players should get the same advantage in Youth sports. Pretty simple concept except to you apologists.

And we are not talking about HS or even Middle school sports which has always gone by grade.

If you want to know how much the prefirsts/holdbacks/reclassed effect Maryland teams...

All you need to know is look at the World Series of Youth Lacrosse teams. Out of 37 teams listed in Inside Lacrosse of supposedly best U13 teams in country.... 3 are from Maryland. And all three are not considered anywhere near the top in MD. Maryland can only compete by older players playing younger players...Pretty Sad state for Youth Lacrosse in MD.

It sure is....

MD may be the worst, but last year they changed the rules for WSYL after clubs try outs and made finalized rosters.- but lets not pretend that NJ,NY,PA,VA,DC,NE,FL,TX don't all have holdbacks. This is a fact. Teams hold separate tryouts and have completely different teams that they send to this 1 tournament. Every other tournament in the country allows the age differential . Not condoning it but its fact, what is not factual is MD can't compete without holdbacks. API made it to the final 4 with a weak team and beat the champion in earlier round. Maybe you should come down and watch some MD fall ball and see the high level of lacrosse from Elite, A,B and Rec teams. MD REC teams can compete against all 37 teams at WSYL. Just because they choose not to participate in 1 tournament doesn't mean they can't compete. Lacrosse in MD is stronger than ever at every level.

Api took on the md elite with one kid that was a pre K and was a face off kid who is very good but wasn’t the starter . Api last year had no holdbacks and competed with the best . They finished 3rd in the World Series of Lacrosse and 9th before roughriders 2022 National championship . So they did pretty well but this year they have change they have holdbacks now they aren’t as good . Api is not a elite team anymore. They lost a lot of good players .

For holdbacks...Exhibit A, B, and C:

2022 Annapolis Hawks
2022 Richmond "Hawks"
2022 DC Express A

🙄

If you are going to play elite you have to have Holdbacks now but I’m sorry my belief is that is cheating before high school .

API has one of the oldest teams out there mostly kids born sept oct 03 birthday days let's not say they don't have have backs. Elite in 3 grade not anymore.

The fact that there is a “holdback” thread in the Maryland forum I’d freaking priceless! Go to LI and most of your top kids would be playing a year above! You guys kill me!

First of all, you’re a fool. Yes, LI/NJ teams have holdbacks. 1 or 2 per team. WSYL rosters must include kids that have played all season.. new rule this year. A team can’t add kids or suntracy their for the tournament. Please don’t try to hide that Md teams are not nunning out kids that are older. It’s an accepted fact. Ex: 2023 Crabs has no less than 14 kids that were 13+ last season. If Maryland teams want to compete, the door is open. They just need to run their 2924 teams in the tourney, and let’s be realistic, it would be s massacre

My question why holdback the kids why not do a post grad year after high school before college . The kid will know more of what they want and you still get a older kid going into college with some college credits ...

Hmm Looks like recruiting and Holdback rules being called into question at MIAA schools for football. Some MIAA lacrosse schools should hurry up and cover their tracks before the St.Frances and Biff Poggi issues call into question MIAA lacrosse recruiting and hold back rules......

Easy answer is...You get zero advantage paying at your age during their youth or HS and then doing a PG. Do a prefirst or reclass and enjoy an advantage in youth and HS

I dont think I have met many coaches that have children in MIAA schools that werent held back. They know the drill. Hard to compete for a starting position when you are younger than the other boys

That is crazy stuff there. The St Frances Football team has around 40 scholarships paid in full by one guy, Biff Poggi. They are destroying any and all MIAA football teams including McDonogh and Biffs old team Gilman.

. Obviously St Frances has less academics standards than Gilman did and can recruit from a bigger pool, but Gilman had some dominate teams years ago with Biff and no one quit playing Gilman.

The recruiting and holdbacks will be interesting if any revisions come from this. I doubt anything will be done as lacrosse will be effected in some way. Best approach is the way MIAA is handling it now, its a safety issue.

who is the stunad? did you proof read your lame reply before you hit the send button- kinda admitting other states have them just not as many-not sure who really believes that- you also state the roster change for this year- not previous years which is what most of this topic is about-why do you think anyone is hiding anything - the rules for MD clubs allows for it and until that changes you will have to deal with it-deal with it by posting anonymous rants on this site-because MD holdback teams whip other states holdback teams-Md teams certainly do not need to travel any where out of the state to play anyone-they all come here to play us! Especially 1 tournament that changes the rules every single year! Don't worry , we will see and most likely hear your crying on the sidelines this year at one of the great MD tournaments-you and your team with 1 or 2 holdbacks- the door is always wide open -especially for the cheater who calls out the cheater who is beating him at the game!

classic hater!
Every single team in the elite division and AA team in the country has holdbacks- please post your kids team right under the 3 you know nothing about -

Not sure about every team. 91 Bandits? I'm not sure they have anyone over 13 on their team. Not sure they could be the '22 Annapolis Hawks who are all two years older but they can beat any '23 MD team who are a year older.

They lost to Crabs 2023 last year

They would also have trouble with the 23 Hawks right now. They are greatly improved over last year.