BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls High School Lax

Jealousy...the green monster...it's a terrible thing. The top 40 and watch list may not be perfect as none of these lists are perfect, but there is no doubt these are many of the top girls in the 2018 class if you have watched the club circuit or top H.S. programs play the last few years. Inevitably, some of the players on the list may not pan out/be top players for their schools, but odds are based on the results from prior years many of these girls will pan out and be major contributors to their program. Also, last year, 36 of the top 40 girls ranked by ILWomen made the Under Armour game as well.

In many cases, you're probably right. But the great defenders are the ones who are passionate about defense. That's not a failed middie. It's a defender. In order to lock down a really good attacker you have to love what you do in order to develop the skill and athleticism needed to do it. Or are you going to tell me Becca Block isn't a tremendous athlete? Because I'm pretty sure she'd run you into the dirt. All while smoking your daughter on the draw.

Based on their team's performances the last couple of years... yes, absolutely.

Again there are exceptions to every generality but the initial poster essentially said defense is where the best athletes play which is just a farce. As far as Becca Block running me into the dirt I don't play womens lacrosse I guess you do, and my daughter does not take the draw or is she even on the circle that would now be illegal.

Just so you know Becca Block was a middie in high school you dope and converted to defense in college.

WHICH IS EXACTLY THE POINT!!! Thank you sage one. This thick person who started this out by saying HIGH SCHOOL defenders are great athletes is just flat out wrong. Most are not the best athletes (HS Middies r) or the best sticks (HS Attackers/middies are). This guy keeps switching the point to college, where many defenders are great athletes and were great MIDDIE athletes in HS. We get it, his daughter is a high school defender.

can you imagine how painful that dad must be to college coaches watching games(club)?

"sally is a stud defensive player who coaches begged to play defense, because the team needed her superior skill on

defense."

uh yeaaaaaa....rigggghhht....

Yes, making and playing on the Under Armour All American teams certainly gets the players on the map. The girls making this list don't appear out of nowhere, they are known commodities who have been gathering accolades their entire career and Under Armour does an excellent job culling out talent and is a good barometer of the top talent in the nation, so it goes hand in hand with IL selections. Now I will assume the people who will now complain about Under Armour are they same people complaining about the IL selections.

You jest, but my kid became a defender around 6th grade and here's how it happened. The coach moved all girls through all positions. At that age, defense is pretty non-existent, everyone's a scorer including my daughter. However, she clicked on D, could play it, liked playing it, didn't whine about it like the majority of other girls ("go to goal! go to goal!) and stayed. She got recruited to play D at a D1, which she does and she starts. She anchors the D and the coach is already talking to her about captainship and she is not a senior. I attribute this in part to the communication skills she has to utilize running the back line. So yeah, it happens. Oh, not an athlete you say? Three sport varsity player, her first one was when she was in 7th grade. She is athletic. She likes D. She likes being able to shut down the hotshot on the other team. She likes a lot of the mental aspects of playing back there.

I'm the parent who said I groan when the middies come back to help on D, and it's because they don't get defense. IDC how athletic they are, if you don't understand positioning and your game sense is weak, you are a liability on the back end. Period.
Sure, some middies make the transition successfully in college, but you can't take away from what my kid did and does as a true defender from the way back. Apparently only the parents of defenders get this, and probably the parents of goalies because, trust me, those parents want a solid D in front of their daughter.

Excuse me, I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Probably because you are drinking again mid day. Get lost.

Dang, you need to search the forum and see how political UA is and has been for YEARS. Of course the girls on the list are good, but there are others equally as good who don't have connections <cough cough and a side eye to CR>

Notre Dame recruited well the last couple of years...watch out for them! ND commits beat UNC commits at Lake Placid.

Again 6-7 of those commits will never see the field, that's just reality

Like who?

Crickets

Oh look, HS defenders who are athletic and got recruited. insidelacrosse.com/article/2017-ilwomen-top-incoming-defenders/50531

That's interesting. And two out of those 5 defenders are on final four teams.

I have no idea at all who any of those recruits are and don't really care, the fact is statistically 60% of any given recruiting class will never see the field in any meaningful way. Take a look at the sidelines in some of the early season games when the weather hasn't warmed up yet and you will see a significant amount of players on any given sideline that have sweatshirts on the entire game, they know they're not playing, because 12-15 players play the vast majority of the minutes, the other 15-20 players are the practice squad or bowling pins on the sideline or whatever they do. They may have all been HS standouts and UA this and NIKE that, but in the end it's impossible for 28-35 players to get playing time and that's not an opinion, its just simple math

So can we extrapolate and say that some of the UA this and NIKE that players got there through political lifts? Because if UA and NIKE chose the best, then the best would see the field over the other less-recognized players.

If you don't care, why are you posting?

The jealousy displayed on this site is crazy. It is very unfortunate that the jealousy and bitterness of so many parents has turned the sidelines into a toxic environment as well. Spew your venom and hate all that you want but in the end know that the best recruiters in the game get it right many more times than they get it wrong. The on field results do not lie and the majority of those girls are headed to the best programs in the country. I know, I know... they will never see the field and they will major in basket weaving bla bla bla.

If a player had offers (or is committed to) one of top programs in the country Im sure she was also given consideration by IL and is a top tier player. However, if the offers were not coming from the top programs the player is most likely not as good as her parents think she is. Talk to any of the coaches from the top programs in the country and they will tell you that for the most part they all go after the same players. Maryland does not lose players to Marist, Syracuse does not lose players to Siena, Carolina does not lose players to Connecticut, Notre Dame does not lose players New Hampshire, Penn does not lose players to Providence.

The players on that list are pretty darn good and the coaches who recruited them have proven over and over again that they know how to identify they best players.

Amen to this

I have to agree with the below post. These UA this and Nike that are not helping players make the IL Top Player list. They (IL) have analysts that cover specific events but then they get help from club coaches and college coaches so they are pretty accurate with their list but are they missing some blue chips, absolutely but they can’t be everywhere or some of these other top tier players aren’t attending the coveted, top recruiting events therefore not getting recognized. But it’s just a list. I was voted the 20th best Attackmen in the country back in the day (04) yet I was runner up for attackmen of the year and a Nassau AA. You would think being from the ‘hotbed’ of Lacrosse would have helped but It didn’t but I didnt go to any of the 3 recruiting events offered back then....But it has changed a lot since then with great players from all over and there are a plethora of recruiting events to attend. End of the day, it’s just a list.

And the 60% of any given recruiting class won’t see the field that you speak of, is this a proven stat bc I know in my experience that most of them do play. I would say maybe 10-20% of the top recruits don’t pan out as expected but I can’t prove that but to say 60% is awefully high.

These are good debates. Stay on track and don’t go after one another. Good stuff

The point is at the schools your talking about every recruit is a top player on their HS team or club team, but statistics indicate they won't all play at the next level. The same goes for academics, I'm sure every kid in an Ivy finished top ten percent of their class, guess what they all won't graduate top ten in their class - again it's not opinion or "bitterness" it's simple math. If you can't understand this concept then your hopelessly lost - good luck

I agree with the above post, no bitterness or jealousy. Do we agree 16 girls play in the big games? Then with a roster of 32, it is impossible for only 10/20%(3-6 players) to not pan out...the one poster said 60%(18 players) won't see the field...pretty accurate...the big time programs who have the elite recruiters only have to hit 50% on the 8 recruits they bring in each year to stay on top...Back to the rankings for a sec, 2019 list...maryland had all 12 of their recruits on the list...Are you going to tell me only 1 or 2 of them won't see the field? If we are saying these girls are the top girls in the nation, then by them not getting on the field, that would constitute them not panning out, correct? I think the number would be closer to 60% than 10%. I'm just looking at the numbers,,,With that said those maryland girls will probably win at least a couple titles...Have a good day.

What is the purpose of your post? If not to tear down the players then what? It is bitter and it is negative . You are attempting to tear the girls down by saying who cares if IL considers these girls the best? They will not make it at the next level (therefore they are not very good and the list is BS). Do you take joy in being so sure that some of these girls will not pan out? Do you root against them? If one of them doesn't get much playing time will it make you feel good?

You are correct, a certain percentage of recruited girls will never see the field but the reality is that the large majority of the players on that top 40 list will see the field and they will excel .

Didn't look at the 2019 list but I did looked at the 18's.
The majority of players on the Top 40 list are going to Top Ten programs. My guess is that the girls listed are the top recruits at the top programs. Not all recruits are equal, Marylands #1 is probably stronger than their #8.

Most of the players listed are going to see plenty of playing time and the schools they are going to will continue to be the best programs in the country.

The fact is, Inside Lacrosse and the coaches who consistently find the best players happen to agree on most of these kids.

Question, How is it that possible that most of them are going to see plenty of playing time? Every Maryland recruit is on every grades rankings...like someone posted, there's 32+ kids on the roster...i've never watched a competitive game where 25+ kids play...You prove my pt by saying not all recruits are equal...top 3 recruits for maryland in every class will see majority of playing time...4-8 not so much if any at all...and lets not get into syracuse's 45 kid roster.

Here is the breakdown of how many players out of the Top 40 each school is getting.

Maryland - 5
Florida - 4
Duke. - 4

Syracuse - 4
BC. - 4
NU. - 4
UNC. - 2
PSU. - 2
UVA. - 2
Loyola - 2
Stanford. - 2
Princeton - 1
SC. - 1
OSU. - 1
Louisville - 1

The top 3 - 4 recruits at each school will most likely see a lot of playing time. Most of the girls on the top 40 list are more than likely the top players in each of their respective schools recruiting class.
The best players will play and based on the experience of the coaches who thought highly enough of these players offer them a spot I am willing to agree with IL and the coaches and say these girls are the best around and they will play.

Below is this years Top 10 incoming freshman classes. I assume most of those girls were on last years Top 40 list.

Anyone want to take a guess at who the finial poll Top 10 will be or who the final 8 teams in the tournament will be?


https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/2017-ilwomen-top-10-incoming-classes/50464&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwii-sb4utLWAhWqLsAKHZY_DKoQFggFMAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AOvVaw37ds-rRQxmyzkidgMS8xEV

Tournament teams will be the same as always as documented above. It is impossible for new schools (except SB) to make the jump. Sport could really use a wild card champion. Would be great on many levels especially for recruiting

2017 ILWomen Top 10 Incoming Classes

10. Virginia
The ‘Hoos bring in playmakers all over the field, headlined by blue chip talent Chloe Jones (Lawrenceville, N.J.) and do-it-all playmaker Halle Graham (Good Counsel, Md.). Ashlyn McGovern (St. Paul’s School for Girls, Md.), Katie Railey (Notre Dame Prep, Md.) and Taylor Reagan (Rye Country Day, N.Y.) add balance as the class offers added depth top to bottom.

9. Penn
The Quakers welcome in a pair of players who could be game-changing over the course of their careers in Philadelphia: Zoe Belodeau (St. Stephen’s & St. Agnes, Va.) and Olivia Smith (St. Anthony’s, N.Y.). Laura Murphy (Darien, Conn.) adds depth, as Penn looks to return to its perch atop the Ivy League in 2018.

8. Florida
Welcome to the Swamp, Shannon Kavanagh (Smithtown West, N.Y.) & Co. – a class that features four Under Armour All-Americans with an ability to hit the ground running in Gainesville. The Gators were hit hard by graduation last spring; this group of newcomers will be relied on early and often in 2018.

7. USC
A year after bringing in the nation’s No. 1 recruit (Kerrigan Miller), the Women of Troy welcome in Under Armour All-Americans Riley Hertford (Lake Oswego, Ore.) and Kelsey Huff (Eastport-South Manor, N.Y.) to headline a group that looks to make up for the loss of two-time first-team All-American Michaela Michael and more.

6. Duke
Under Armour All-America game MVP Charlotte North (Episcopal School of Dallas, Texas) is warmly complemented by classmates Catriona Barry (St. Ignatius Prep, Calif.) and Katie Cosgrove (Churchville-Chili, N.Y.) to headline this incoming Duke class, as the Blue Devils look to fill graduation voids left by Maddie Crutchfield and Kyra Harney, among others.

5. Notre Dame
The Fighting Irish welcome the nation’s No. 1 overall recruit to South Bend in Andie Aldave (McDonogh, Md.) this fall. The do-it-all middie is flanked by fellow Under Armour All-Americans Kaci Messier (Victor, N.Y.) and Bridget Deehan (Milton, Ga.) as the trio headline an incoming class of nine.

4. Syracuse
The Orange were young in 2017, heavily relying on their underclassmen to make their way back to the ACC Tournament championship. With little room to crack into this lineup, talented newcomers Samantha Swart (Archbishop Carroll, Pa.) and Hannah Van Middelem (Mount Sinai, N.Y.) lead a group of Under Armour All-Americans and rookies looking to be the exception to that rule and push for immediate playing time in the ‘Cuse.

3. Maryland
The reigning national champions fielded a young lineup in 2017, but they graduated Tewaaraton winner Zoe Stukenberg and fellow finalist Nadine Hadnagy, among others. The incoming Terps add depth at each and every position, and the class is headlined by the likes of Under Armour All-Americans Catie May (McDonogh, Md.) and Grace Griffin (Liberty, Md.).

2. Princeton
Arguably one of the strongest classes we’ve seen Chris Sailer welcome into Princeton in recent years – and maybe ever, Margaret Donovan (McDonogh, Md.), Samantha Fish (Scripps Ranch, Calif.) and Kyla Sears (Skaneateles, N.Y.) headline a group looking to fill the graduation void of a class that made four straight NCAA Tournament appearances and captured a pair of Ivy League Tournament titles in 2015 and 2017.

1. North Carolina
The Tar Heels welcome in the nation’s top recruiting class for the second time in a three-year span, as IL’s No. 1 attacker Jamie Ortega (Middle Country/ Centereach, N.Y.) and ILWomen National High School Player of the Year Allison Mastroianni (Bridgewater-Raritan, N.J.) headline a class that has the ability to impact all over the field for Jenny Levy & Co. This class’ arrival comes on the heels of North Carolina saying goodbye to 11 seniors, five of which earned All-America status at least once during their collegiate career — headlined by the likes of Molly Hendrick and Caylee Waters.

I was a 2x ua aa in hs. I go to a
Top
5 lax school. Was on the watch list soph and jr and was in the top list snr yr. as a freshman in college I played exactly 28 min in the entire season. It sucked but it was a lesson for me. To work harder

One more thought on the subject of "rankings" All the polls last year had BC somewhere between 10-20 and at one point in the season they were not in the top 20 teams in coaches or IL rankings. Navy on the other hand never sniffed the top 20, but somehow managed to make it to the final four. Duke and Loyola were top 20 teams in the same polls, based on what? School name recognition and past performance or were the so called experts and their rankings wrong about a few things? These polls and rankings are all just folly to fill magazine pages, draw eyeballs to websites and help colleges marketing their athletic programs. As with most things in sports and lax in particular follow the money, because that's all these list are for is to generate revenues for all those involved

The difference between teams 1-8 and then 9-20 is huge then when you get outside the top 25 its pretty even and pretty ugly. With the info posted above the rich will remain rich and we shouldn't expect any newcomers to crash the top tier party.

BC and Navy both showed that coaching plays a major role in the success of these teams. We all know the teams that are packed with top talent each year yet always underachieve.

How can that be? There are so many great players going to all of the schools outside of the Top 10 (yet the Top Teams are the top teams year after year). The IL Young Guns Top 40 list is a joke (yet the majority of the players are going to Top 10 Programs) Under Armour is a joke and political as well (what schools do the majority of those players go to?) And don't even get me started on the recruiting process, what a joke that is. In order to get offers from the top teams you have to have connections. You can't get "the looks" if you are not tied in politically. Girls lacrosse is the most political sport out there, ability counts for nothing, its all about who you know.

My daughter didn't have a single offer from a Top 10 team but I know she is better than all of those other girls. Our club director sucks, that is why other girls were recruited over my daughter.

Very true, that's why Notre Dame and Florida (both top 5 recruiting classes every year) will always underachieve. The two schools simply based on their names recruit all the top talent the could ask for, especially ND, they both should be minimum a final four team every year, but they always fall short

Florida not top 5 this year... How can you say they get all the top talent they could ask for? Does UNC. Maryland, Penn State and Virginia nor out recruit Florida? How about Princeton, Penn, Duke and Northwestern, do they not out recruit ND? If Travel is not an issue with a top recruit from Long Island or MD why not go to Stanford over ND? Neither Florida or ND is the top choice for a lot of the top talent. Both are good schools with a lot to offer but they are not the right fit for all of the top players.

Florida is good academically but not great. Some of the other schools you listed are great academically so if you aren't going to win a national championship, take the top educational school. Lacrosse ends people. Nobody cares when our daughters are playing and even less care after they are done.