|
Forums20
Topics3,799
Posts399,652
Members2,638
| |
Most Online62,980
Feb 6th, 2020
|
|
 Team 91 MD
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 28
Back of THE CAGE
|
OP
Back of THE CAGE
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 28 |
Forum to discuss Team 91 MD
|
Like
 Reply
 Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Not surprised here; nothing really much to say.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Not surprised here; nothing really much to say. Million has the 2023 championships scheduled already. Is he keeping the 2022 championships for a 3rd year? Will the 2024 great 8 tourney survive another year as well? I hope all three happen this summer.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Not surprised here; nothing really much to say. Million has the 2023 championships scheduled already. Is he keeping the 2022 championships for a 3rd year? Will the 2024 great 8 tourney survive another year as well? I hope all three happen this summer. Will the 2023 91 MD 2023 team be playing in it? If he does lets hope the brackets are seated better than this past year!1 This was actually a nice tourney.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes!
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
If he has one for 2023, his team should not even be invited.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
If he has one for 2023, his team should not even be invited. Millon will do what he always does; bring kids in from Texas and put his team in the easiest bracket. If this is a legitimate 2023 Tournament and looking at the best 16 teams in the country; 91 2023 MD should not even be considered.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Who will be the 16 to represent the 2023 National Championship Tournament?
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
ease up! officiating was very biased. conflict of interest exists when a tournament participant operates the tournament
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group. Let's be clear, it is not an "age group", it is grade-based. Big difference. US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments will be the future
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group. Let's be clear, it is not an "age group", it is grade-based. Big difference. US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments will be the future Not when the clubs refuse to form age-based teams.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Wanna bet! Despite what you may think, MD does not rule the lacrosse world. Holdbacks will be able to play in their grade at school, but will be required to play on age in club ball. Playing fields will be level
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group. Let's be clear, it is not an "age group", it is grade-based. Big difference. US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments will be the future Can't wait to take our flying cars to the US Lacrosse tournaments! The future is going to be great!
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Wanna bet! Despite what you may think, MD does not rule the lacrosse world. Holdbacks will be able to play in their grade at school, but will be required to play on age in club ball. Playing fields will be level Not likely. US Lacrosse is a joke.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Wanna bet! Despite what you may think, MD does not rule the lacrosse world. Holdbacks will be able to play in their grade at school, but will be required to play on age in club ball. Playing fields will be level Bet all the money you want. If you think this only happens in MD your mistaken. US Lacrosse tried to derail it numerous times. WSYL also tried last year with this age group by changing the cut off date after all the try outs ended and teams finalized .Finalized by using WSYL age previous age cut off. Which is why top teams from MD and other states did not attend. MM tournament had the best teams playing each other. Which is exactly what every top coach wanted. I do agree that the refs where very biased especially in the playoffs. Every game was very competitive. EVERY TEAM had at least 1 holdback . If you want to play Elite level and try out and pay the money you don't get to bash the system you agreed to play under. There is a ton of other very good AA ,REC teams and leagues to join. ELITE teams do play on a level playing field. Im sure everyone agrees change needs to be made but until then it is what is.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Elite teams that play grade based lacrosse are not on a level playing field. If you can put a player that should be in the 11th grade on the field with on age 9th graders - that is a HUGE advantage. Happens all the time in Maryland. Crabs, FCA, etc. thrive off it.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group. Let's be clear, it is not an "age group", it is grade-based. Big difference. US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments will be the future Can't wait to take our flying cars to the US Lacrosse tournaments! The future is going to be great! your kid is almost of age to be an astronaut. try playing against boys the same age (same stage of maturity, with similar size/speed/strength)
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group. Let's be clear, it is not an "age group", it is grade-based. Big difference. US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments will be the future Can't wait to take our flying cars to the US Lacrosse tournaments! The future is going to be great! your kid is almost of age to be an astronaut. try playing against boys the same age (same stage of maturity, with similar size/speed/strength) Many of the kids reclassing are doing so because they are late bloomers and do want to compete with kids the same size speed and strength. Should they be allowed to reclass?
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Elite teams that play grade based lacrosse are not on a level playing field. If you can put a player that should be in the 11th grade on the field with on age 9th graders - that is a HUGE advantage. Happens all the time in Maryland. Crabs, FCA, etc. thrive off it. So now we have moved on from the holdback law to the double holdback theory. Sure, Scrooge, Jason, and Freddy Kruger all held their kids back twice. I am sure that they were all willing to pay two additional years of "elite" school tuition - in Maryland, no doubt - given all of the residual checks they have coming in. Can we just stop with the holdback nonsense? Let this Maryland forum remain pure of lacrosse heart, a place where we talk scores, strategy, and game play. A place where us enthusiasts can go to escape the incessant whining we see over in the grade based forum. Okay, this may be too big of an ask, so can we just dispense with the crying and complaining? My boy only cares about wins and losses. He has never come to me complaining about the age or size of his opponents. He has, however, asked me how he should play a particular situation or player who is much bigger than he is because he simply wants to do well on the field. He wants to compete, win and learn like all of your kids, but you all want to come on here and whine about how tough the lacrosse world is for Little Freddy. Please just stop it!! Help your kid be the best that he can be in any on field situation and shut up about the rest. I hope that the most of are as sick of this !@#$ as I am. Stop making excuses for why your child can't see the field and help him develop. Learn the game so that your able to assist him. Get up a 5am and workout with him. Do what you need to do, but please go back to the 2022 forum if you want to whine.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group. Let's be clear, it is not an "age group", it is grade-based. Big difference. US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments will be the future Can't wait to take our flying cars to the US Lacrosse tournaments! The future is going to be great! your kid is almost of age to be an astronaut. try playing against boys the same age (same stage of maturity, with similar size/speed/strength) Do you complain this same thing for basketball season, football . You clearly give your kid every excuse in the book. There is 13 year old boys on the football and basketball teams that are bigger than most adult men. Most big adult men. What do you tell your kid during those sports. 1 year difference with boys has such as big maturity difference even boys the exact same age the difference can be huge. My son will never complain or back down from either. Especially with high school is right around the corner
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Sure - 91 Maryland is a b team.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Sure - 91 Maryland is a b team. At 2023 maybe, not 22, 24 or 25.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Sure - 91 Maryland is a b team. Season hasn't even started but you already know what level the 91 23 team is?? With all the movement how can you say that? Loonies will most likely be the team to beat but until the games are played that will not be known.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
2022 National Championship again this year?
Yes! By far the best tournament of the year for this age group. Let's be clear, it is not an "age group", it is grade-based. Big difference. US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments will be the future Can't wait to take our flying cars to the US Lacrosse tournaments! The future is going to be great! your kid is almost of age to be an astronaut. try playing against boys the same age (same stage of maturity, with similar size/speed/strength) You are talking out of Uranus.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
“We don’t bring in 30 teams because I don’t think 30 can win it, I do think however there are 16 that can. We have a neutral and experienced selection committee, a spectacular venue, it is going to be another really exciting championship.” said Mark Millon, event founder.
I wonder which 16 Teams MM will be inviting?
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Sure - 91 Maryland is a b team. Season hasn't even started but you already know what level the 91 23 team is?? With all the movement how can you say that? Loonies will most likely be the team to beat but until the games are played that will not be known. And how would you now Looney's is the team to beat; 'with all the movement how can you say that?" aka Looney's dad
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Everyone should just keep their mouths shut until all of the rosters are posted. Rumors, etc will be laid to rest and you freaks who constantly look up rosters can argue about which kid went there and how that team is now going to dominate, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda until the moon goes down. I guarantee you care about this sh*t more than your kids do.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Everyone should just keep their mouths shut until all of the rosters are posted. Rumors, etc will be laid to rest and you freaks who constantly look up rosters can argue about which kid went there and how that team is now going to dominate, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda until the moon goes down. I guarantee you care about this sh*t more than your kids do.
91 doesn't post rosters because they are constantly bringing in kids from out of state.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Everyone should just keep their mouths shut until all of the rosters are posted. Rumors, etc will be laid to rest and you freaks who constantly look up rosters can argue about which kid went there and how that team is now going to dominate, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda until the moon goes down. I guarantee you care about this sh*t more than your kids do.
91 doesn't post rosters because they are constantly bringing in kids from out of state. It sounded like they brought one or two kids in from Texas. Big deal. For some reason it sure has got your panties all knotted up.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Elite teams that play grade based lacrosse are not on a level playing field. If you can put a player that should be in the 11th grade on the field with on age 9th graders - that is a HUGE advantage. Happens all the time in Maryland. Crabs, FCA, etc. thrive off it. So now we have moved on from the holdback law to the double holdback theory. Sure, Scrooge, Jason, and Freddy Kruger all held their kids back twice. I am sure that they were all willing to pay two additional years of "elite" school tuition - in Maryland, no doubt - given all of the residual checks they have coming in. Can we just stop with the holdback nonsense? Let this Maryland forum remain pure of lacrosse heart, a place where we talk scores, strategy, and game play. A place where us enthusiasts can go to escape the incessant whining we see over in the grade based forum. Okay, this may be too big of an ask, so can we just dispense with the crying and complaining? My boy only cares about wins and losses. He has never come to me complaining about the age or size of his opponents. He has, however, asked me how he should play a particular situation or player who is much bigger than he is because he simply wants to do well on the field. He wants to compete, win and learn like all of your kids, but you all want to come on here and whine about how tough the lacrosse world is for Little Freddy. Please just stop it!! Help your kid be the best that he can be in any on field situation and shut up about the rest. I hope that the most of are as sick of this !@#$ as I am. Stop making excuses for why your child can't see the field and help him develop. Learn the game so that your able to assist him. Get up a 5am and workout with him. Do what you need to do, but please go back to the 2022 forum if you want to whine. The holdback issue makes lacrosse a joke to many people that do not play it along with many in the sport. Youth sports was never made to give an advantage to select kids that are heldback for whatever reason. Its a huge advantage while young and gets less as you get older. There will never be a stoppage of people voicing their opinion on how wrong this is. It is wrong and common sense tells you it is. Even in HS there is some advantage when you are grouped with you grade. Look at the UA tryouts. The 9th and 10th grade teams are overwhelming holdbacks in areas (Balt, DC, Philly) where this is common. It is so bad this last summer that even the guru of recruiting Xanders complained on twitter about how someone had to get this holdback issue under control. That is pretty bad when he says something!
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I was thinking the same thing! In one sentence you're saying "how could team 91 know they are the best team"... "the season hasn't started but Looney's is the team to beat". This just shows the caliber of parents on this forum!
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Elite teams that play grade based lacrosse are not on a level playing field. If you can put a player that should be in the 11th grade on the field with on age 9th graders - that is a HUGE advantage. Happens all the time in Maryland. Crabs, FCA, etc. thrive off it. So now we have moved on from the holdback law to the double holdback theory. Sure, Scrooge, Jason, and Freddy Kruger all held their kids back twice. I am sure that they were all willing to pay two additional years of "elite" school tuition - in Maryland, no doubt - given all of the residual checks they have coming in. Can we just stop with the holdback nonsense? Let this Maryland forum remain pure of lacrosse heart, a place where we talk scores, strategy, and game play. A place where us enthusiasts can go to escape the incessant whining we see over in the grade based forum. Okay, this may be too big of an ask, so can we just dispense with the crying and complaining? My boy only cares about wins and losses. He has never come to me complaining about the age or size of his opponents. He has, however, asked me how he should play a particular situation or player who is much bigger than he is because he simply wants to do well on the field. He wants to compete, win and learn like all of your kids, but you all want to come on here and whine about how tough the lacrosse world is for Little Freddy. Please just stop it!! Help your kid be the best that he can be in any on field situation and shut up about the rest. I hope that the most of are as sick of this !@#$ as I am. Stop making excuses for why your child can't see the field and help him develop. Learn the game so that your able to assist him. Get up a 5am and workout with him. Do what you need to do, but please go back to the 2022 forum if you want to whine. The holdback issue makes lacrosse a joke to many people that do not play it along with many in the sport. Youth sports was never made to give an advantage to select kids that are heldback for whatever reason. Its a huge advantage while young and gets less as you get older. There will never be a stoppage of people voicing their opinion on how wrong this is. It is wrong and common sense tells you it is. Even in HS there is some advantage when you are grouped with you grade. Look at the UA tryouts. The 9th and 10th grade teams are overwhelming holdbacks in areas (Balt, DC, Philly) where this is common. It is so bad this last summer that even the guru of recruiting Xanders complained on twitter about how someone had to get this holdback issue under control. That is pretty bad when he says something! BLAH BLAH BLAH....SHUT UP AND GO SWING YOUR PURSE SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU CUP CAKE. NOBODY CARES....DUHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Elite teams that play grade based lacrosse are not on a level playing field. If you can put a player that should be in the 11th grade on the field with on age 9th graders - that is a HUGE advantage. Happens all the time in Maryland. Crabs, FCA, etc. thrive off it.
So now we have moved on from the holdback law to the double holdback theory. Sure, Scrooge, Jason, and Freddy Kruger all held their kids back twice. I am sure that they were all willing to pay two additional years of "elite" school tuition - in Maryland, no doubt - given all of the residual checks they have coming in.
Can we just stop with the holdback nonsense? Let this Maryland forum remain pure of lacrosse heart, a place where we talk scores, strategy, and game play. A place where us enthusiasts can go to escape the incessant whining we see over in the grade based forum. Okay, this may be too big of an ask, so can we just dispense with the crying and complaining?
My boy only cares about wins and losses. He has never come to me complaining about the age or size of his opponents. He has, however, asked me how he should play a particular situation or player who is much bigger than he is because he simply wants to do well on the field. He wants to compete, win and learn like all of your kids, but you all want to come on here and whine about how tough the lacrosse world is for Little Freddy. Please just stop it!! Help your kid be the best that he can be in any on field situation and shut up about the rest. I hope that the most of are as sick of this !@#$ as I am. Stop making excuses for why your child can't see the field and help him develop. Learn the game so that your able to assist him. Get up a 5am and workout with him. Do what you need to do, but please go back to the 2022 forum if you want to whine.
The holdback issue makes lacrosse a joke to many people that do not play it along with many in the sport. Youth sports was never made to give an advantage to select kids that are heldback for whatever reason. Its a huge advantage while young and gets less as you get older. There will never be a stoppage of people voicing their opinion on how wrong this is. It is wrong and common sense tells you it is. Even in HS there is some advantage when you are grouped with you grade. Look at the UA tryouts. The 9th and 10th grade teams are overwhelming holdbacks in areas (Balt, DC, Philly) where this is common. It is so bad this last summer that even the guru of recruiting Xanders complained on twitter about how someone had to get this holdback issue under control. That is pretty bad when he says something! BLAH BLAH BLAH....SHUT UP AND GO SWING YOUR PURSE SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU CUP CAKE. NOBODY CARES....DUHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Sorry apologist. Most do care and we will continue to voice our opinion on this issue that makes lacrosse the laughing stock of youth sports. If anyone has a purse full of female things its you. You cant have a fair playing field for your son, you need an advantage. many people call that being a ........
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
The holdback issue makes lacrosse a joke to many people that do not play it along with many in the sport. Youth sports was never made to give an advantage to select kids that are heldback for whatever reason. Its a huge advantage while young and gets less as you get older. There will never be a stoppage of people voicing their opinion on how wrong this is. It is wrong and common sense tells you it is.
Even in HS there is some advantage when you are grouped with you grade. Look at the UA tryouts. The 9th and 10th grade teams are overwhelming holdbacks in areas (Balt, DC, Philly) where this is common. It is so bad this last summer that even the guru of recruiting Xanders complained on twitter about how someone had to get this holdback issue under control. That is pretty bad when he says something!
[/quote]
BLAH BLAH BLAH....SHUT UP AND GO SWING YOUR PURSE SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU CUP CAKE. NOBODY CARES....DUHHHHHHH!!!!!!![/quote]
Sorry apologist. Most do care and we will continue to voice our opinion on this issue that makes lacrosse the laughing stock of youth sports.
If anyone has a purse full of female things its you. You cant have a fair playing field for your son, you need an advantage. many people call that being a ........
[/quote]
"Most do care". Youth club participation doubled last year Nationally. Highest single year growth ever. I guess most didn't care.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Everyone should just keep their mouths shut until all of the rosters are posted. Rumors, etc will be laid to rest and you freaks who constantly look up rosters can argue about which kid went there and how that team is now going to dominate, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda until the moon goes down. I guarantee you care about this sh*t more than your kids do.
91 doesn't post rosters because they are constantly bringing in kids from out of state. It sounded like they brought one or two kids in from Texas. Big deal. For some reason it sure has got your panties all knotted up. 3 kids and it is ridiculous!
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Practice don't complain. If size and age matters to you that much, try sleep away camp in Vermont. Its lacrosse. Play or get played.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
"Most do care". Youth club participation doubled last year Nationally. Highest single year growth ever. I guess most didn't care.
[/quote]
Club participation would triple in an age based system, now go pick up your teenager from 2025 practice...
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Team 91 MD
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
"Most do care". Youth club participation doubled last year Nationally. Highest single year growth ever. I guess most didn't care.
Club participation would triple in an age based system, now go pick up your teenager from 2025 practice...[/quote] Don't need rec talent playing/saturating club. Club should not be paid replacement for rec.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Moderated by 1026ME, A1Laxer, Annoy., baldbear, BiggLax, BOTC_EVENTS, clax422, CP@BOTC, cp_botc, Gremelin, hatimd80, JimSection1, Ladylaxer2609, lax516, Laxers412, LaxMomma, LILax15, MomOf6, Team BOTC, The Hop, TheBackOfTheCage, Thirdy@BOTC, TM@BOTC |
|
