BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2025 - 5th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

No dumb @ss. We're talking about an 11 year old playing with 10 year olds.

And what are you going to do when the playing down doesn't make Johnnie a star? Then my 5th grader will simply tell his classmates that he is better than your 6th grade son even after cheating and those the kids will happily tell the others! Do you think you and your son can slink around with you at major tournaments without being noticed? And do you think you have the only kid from your town or school and the parents and kids don't talk to one another?

I guess the fantasy world where people don't laugh in your face and you are not ashamed really exists.

What team are you talking about?

I thought the ICE team was poorly run. I know at least 5 families that left mid season. If they are having issues on 'AA' how can the 2nd team already be good?

These organizations should all offer a developmental team and play in a local league with the others instead of traveling all over to get blown out. 9D1 is the worst as they put there teams in same tournaments / their own knowing Ice never had a shot and shouldn't of been there.

My son was on Ice and had a great experience. When coach Gavin left the organization showed no interest in keeping the team together or offering a comparable coach. It's a shame. Exause it could have ended up being a legit second team...and nowntheir first one seems to be in trouble...

You are the crazy one. You think this is a singular case? Buddy, wake up and smell reality. More and more kids are being held back every year. Your little superstar will be mediocre very soon.

24 destroyed ICE
and are on the rise

This re-class and hold-back conversation infuriates parents.The parents that held back there kids early on and the ones that are contemplating on doing it now. And lets not forget the boys that are on AGE.Is it fair to them? Its happening all around. all of the A teams are full of holdbacks and re-class.You want this all to go away???Simple fix-AGE BASED TEAMS (All other youth sports do it)

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You are the crazy one. You think this is a singular case? Buddy, wake up and smell reality. More and more kids are being held back every year. Your little superstar will be mediocre very soon.
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This re-class and hold-back conversation infuriates parents.The parents that held back there kids early on and the ones that are contemplating on doing it now. And lets not forget the boys that are on AGE.Is it fair to them? Its happening all around. all of the A teams are full of holdbacks and re-class.You want this all to go away???Simple fix-AGE BASED TEAMS (All other youth sports do it)[/quote]

There is no good argument for grade-based teams for pre-HS ages.

They are talking about a sixth grade kid, that is not held back playing down on a 5th grade team. if the parents choose to hold a kid back and face the music for that, well those are the rules. Those rules might stink, but that is the system. Right now people are saying Express is telling some parents to just have the boys play 2025 (now 5th grade) even though they will be going to school in 6th grade (2024).

That is just cheating.

Your not ok with a 6th grader not yet 11 yrs old. But you are ok with the 5th grader that turned 11 last week? how do you justify cheating?

The rules are what they are. Making up your own rules just doesn't fly. PS, I am infuriated by holdbacks, so a cheating, phony holdback is even more infuriating.

If this bothers you at 5th grade, you should see what older boys are doing: reclassing themselves NOW based upon a prospective PG year so that they are playing with the boys that will be in the same freshman class class after they do their PG year! And some of these boys are already holdbacks!

I understand and agree and share 100% in with your frustration. But what exactly is the rule??Is the Sept.1st date that us lax and world series of lax use? or is it the graduating class?
Because something has to change.Lax is the fastest growing sport in America. Someone needs to step in and interpret/enforce some rules.

I'll preface what I say with I have no problem with any player playing on grade, regardless of age. It's the rule and the clubs we all pay won't change it. However, whatappears to be new, and I think it's the WSYL influence, is coaches literally merging the Sept 1st cutoff of the WSYL and grade. And I because nothing is changing it doesn't upset me. But I respect and understand those of you infuriated by all of this.

24 beat a team that barely had enough players in a B tournament.if you knew what the ice players went through you wouldn't be bragging about how you destroyed them. Give it a rest loser

My son tried out for his team at 2025. So did every other kid on Long Island. Everything else is just made up rules at this point. I'll accept a September 1 date if they get rid of anyone older than that as well. You can't just mix and match it because your kid got cut from Channy A.

If you think holdbacks/ reclassifications are going away you are 100% wrong. College coaches are pushing more and more kids towards taking 1 if not 2 post grad years before enrolling into their college. As the sport grows you will see more of this because it is all driven by 💰💰. These coaches are under much more pressure to win immediately therefore they will do anything they can to give themselves an advantage. Since it's being pushed @ the collegiate level it will only trickle down even further & become more common.
Keep in mind hold backs/ reclassification happens very frequently in football & basketball @ the collegiate level.

Channy does not cut kids. He collects them. His roster is 30 kids. That does not include the other kids he will add when the season starts. To be fair he is up front about whether or not your kid will play. You just have to ask.

Honestly, isn't that nuts? I know people are okay with it to say it's worth the practice. To each his own.

You may be correct. We shall see. But what you are describing is not incompatible with age based youth play. If many players are going to do PG years at the encouragement of D1 coaches (so that they are older when competing at the college level), so be it. It does not mean that kids can't be organized by age when they play lacrosse when they are youths.

Hockey uses PG years also. It is very common for a D1 hockey player to be on schedule to graduate when they are 23 or 24. But yet hockey organizes youth play by birth year, and such is strictly enforced and verified. Their system works very easily. Their is no reason why it won't work in lacrosse.

If you think holdbacks/ reclassifications are going away you are 100% wrong. College coaches are pushing more and more kids towards taking 1 if not 2 post grad years before enrolling into their college. As the sport grows you will see more of this because it is all driven by 💰💰. These coaches are under much more pressure to win immediately therefore they will do anything they can to give themselves an advantage. Since it's being pushed @ the collegiate level it will only trickle down even further & become more common.
Keep in mind hold backs/ reclassification happens very frequently in football & basketball @ the collegiate level. [/quote]


----this is correct for lax, I see it happen with high school kids a lot. They get asked to PG but only some do. But the reasoning is because lacrosse players actually stay in college for 4 years, so there's a benefit having a 23/24 year old playing for you. This however is not true for football or Basketball like you stated. Kids are actually looking to get to college sooner, so that they can play and have a chance to make it into a professional career.

The reclass is an issue for pre-HS aged players, not HS. Football is age-based for all youth programs, so it has never trickled down there - it can't. PG has always been an option for foorball. Football is totally irrelevant analogy.

Football and basketball also have more scholarship $, so PG could be viewed as an investment versus scholarship $, PG a lacrosse player just adds to the overall education cost as we all know, there is minimal $ in lacrosse scholarships

So let's all simply agree that an actual 6th grade kid (2024) playing 5th grade lacrosse (2025) on Long Island is cheating.

I think it depends on their birthday. The US Lacrosse cutoff is 9/1. I have a child born early September that could, according to US Lacrosse, play the grade below. I personally wouldn't consider it because it's better to challenged in my opinion, but I wouldn't consider it cheating either because of the USL cutoff.

If the rules allow him to play then so be it - that's why lax needs to adopt the age based system like hockey and soccer. Hopefully US Lax will implement this, and those running tournaments will have to check all players.

And in my book a " holdback" is another word for cheater. But let those parents gloat their johnny is a star because even johnny knows he is a cheater !

I agree a 6th grader that falls in the birth guidelines is fine with me. That way it's clear. Aug 31st and it's a different case.

if you're in 6th grade regardless of your birthday and playing 2025 then you're cheating. If it's age based (wsyl) then its fine

The USL cutoffs are for an age-based system. You can't pick and choose to use age-based criteria in a grade-based system or vice versa. That's rediculous!

I heard the WI daddy coach is trying to infiltrate the geese watch out!

It's 5th grade lacrosse. He's not competing to get into college right now. If he misses the cut off by 2 weeks WHO CARES? Get over it and worry about your own kid and things that are important in life. This is so ridiculous people keep caring on for an August birthday. Bet over it already!

In grade based lacrosse absolutely -
But there are a decent number of 2025s older than some 2024s.

It's an honor system.

Sorry, can you clarify TB?

Is your son in 6th grade? What part of the GRADE BASED SYSTEM can't you understand. It's cheating, purposely ignorant morons who would happily cheat and pretend that us lacrosse guidelines are applicable.

Cheating piece of $h!t

Of course he is.

It's not two weeks Mr. Alternate Facts, the LI school year is December 1, and I care about my kid and don't want your kid more than a year older than mine, your kid who is in 6th grade cheating. You should be embarrassed and your son will be ashamed.

Over time, we'll all find out who you are and eventually we'll find out if your kid stinks or not, but we will all know without a doubt that you are a cheating bag of scum.

The rules are... there are no rules!!! Talk all you want but until there is one consistent system it's gamesmanship and clubs one-upping each other and it will just continue into perpetuity.

There is no "cutoff" in grade-based lacrosse - you're either in the grade or you're not.