BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021 - 9th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

Teams should be designated AA, A, and B - Recon would be considered a weaker A team under this system. [/quote]

Actually - AA was started because B teams are not a draw so B teams are now A teams and C teams are B teams. So Recon under the old way is an avg B team.

Actually - AA was started because B teams are not a draw so B teams are now A teams and C teams are B teams. So Recon under the old way is an avg B team.
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That makes no sense - AA is a subset of A, being the elite of the A Teams. There still logically have to be non AA teams that are A - figure there are maybe 20 teams on LI that are A, and the rest are B (arguing B vs C is just stupid).

I agree there is no such thing of AA. It is A , B and C. There may be 7 or 8 teams on Long Island that are A. Ten B teams. The rest are C or developmental. The lists we see on here with the top 8 teams are the A teams. The B teams are the Big clubs B teams except for Ambush who is either the top B team out there or the worst A team. We will find out this year as we are hearing they will be for the first time entering A tournaments. Along with the Big clubs B teams which are about 5 teams (Titans, Outlaws Gold, Icon B, Avalanche and Possibly Ambush if they are not A) the other top B teams that arguably could be A are the teams on the level of the top True Blue and Empire teams. Recon is also on a B level. Possibly a few more equals about ten B teams. The rest are C and/or developmental.




That makes no sense - AA is a subset of A, being the elite of the A Teams. There still logically have to be non AA teams that are A - figure there are maybe 20 teams on LI that are A, and the rest are B (arguing B vs C is just stupid).[/quote]

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That's laughable - there are numerous A teams of non 'top' programs that play with or flat out beat top programs' B teams . . . Additionally, the distribution you allude to, at least for a place like Like Island (or MD) is not a proper way to assess teams . . .

It is amazing to read some of this stuff. Cannot believe these are parents of high school players arguing about whether it should be called AA, A, B or C teams. You sound like the parents of 3rd graders. Collectively your brain sizes and mental capacity would equate to the size of a pea.

this whole conversation is ridiculous. It used to be A B and C. then it was AA, A, and B. Now some people want AAA, AA, and A like hockey. Why dont we all call ourselves AAAA+ and be proud. All the kids will get a trophy and be superheroes.Its just that some superheroes are better than others. Superman is better than aquaman.
Any way you cut it, there are 3 to four levels and you can call them what you like there is still a tiered system. If you dont see Blaze or black ice at your tournaments your not there. If you play against a program's second teams, even if you win, you arent at the top level. if you were you would be seeing their top teams.In the end it doesnt matter. If your son is playing competitive games and is in the proper tournaments enjoy the summer. If you think your son can play at a better level try out for a different club and see where he gets placed, Nobody is going to get a living off of this game, and if you could your kid would likely already be at a premier team

Tide 2.0 is almost full. I heard that there are 2021 spots open. Team is going to be the real deal.

How do you know tide will be the real deal?

Your comments demonstrate your inability to understand that lacrosse is an immature sport relative to one like hockey, that is mature. The tiering in hockey is superior in that the teams and the tournaments are appropriate - navigating the season and planning on what tournaments to play is easier and is the reason why the levels of play at most tourneys are at parity: very few games in hockey tourneys result in blowouts. Lax, on the other hand, can have one team both blowout competitors in some games, and get blown out by others, all in the same tourney. I've seen tourneys where this is the story for entire brackets - not just one team. It is a symptom of the need for better tiering (along with age-based governance for all pre-HS levels), and your A, B, and C approach to tiering does not provide that. You and others are fighting to keep an archaic system in place simply because it is the status quo and/or you don't want anyone else in your private 'club'. Either way, it is hurting the growth of the sport, and demonstrates a very myopic viewpoint. This has nothing to do with trophies!

What teams did the boys come from ?

There are A, B and C teams. No AA teams. Be realistic and live with it. For 2021..... No club has two A teams. It is rare and almost almost impossible to achieve in any age group. No small club has an A team. All big clubs second teams are B teams. Very few small clubs have B teams and like I said none are A. Most are C teams. If you disagree with this you have never had your kid compete in a true A tournament. You would see the difference. We get it. Your coach and directors are telling you your team is A or B and no team is a C team. Be realistic. If your team most of the time is in brackets and you are playing big clubs B teams than your team is either B or C. If your kids team enters any tournaments and play in the B bracket or second best bracket that is called A and you don't almost always win the championships then you are B or C. Also just because a bracket is Called A or AA does not mean it is. Most brackets or divisions are B. The problem is not the A,B and C system or the parents and teams wanting there own exclusive group the problem is the parents who can't be realistic and need to be told how great the team is. Enter a true A tournament and see what happens. After that post the results here.

I just don't understand how they could compete. Unless there are some crazy good players out there who haven't been at the other tryouts that we haven't seen yet, or players are leaving the other top teams, this team may be good, but real deal? My kid is on a great B team, and I wouldn't take the chance of him moving over.

Just got an email from Sting Lacrosse. Who are they and what is their deal?

Your argument is entirely dependent upon where you choose to arbitrarily draw the line - it is akin to saying that the only "true" D1 college teams are those that get into the playoffs. The reality is that, as in all sports, the distribution of talent is larger than that - yes there are the elite teams and players, but you sell short anyone directly below the elite level by labeling them as ordinary, which is in effect what you are doing. To stick with the college analogy and lacrosse, the D1 lacrosse universe generally represents the best 3% of all players (let's leave out the fact that there are some elite D1-capable lax SAs that choose to attend D2 or D3 schools for academic reasons and/or that some of these D3 teams can play at almost as high a level as decent D1 teams) - that's the entirety of D1 players, not just the top 10 teams. For college lax in aggregate, all players in D1, 2, AND 3 represent the top ~12% of all players. In that Long Island is still putting a disproportionate number of players into the college ranks (and, yes, LI is not the only locale doing so), it stands to reason that their general talent level is higher than that of even a normal distribution for the sport as a whole. The bottom line is that the top lacrosse teams on LI are the elite, but the elite do not comprise the entirety of top tier lacrosse.

I get tired of all this AA, A, B, etc, stuff as well, but there is a point to it.

There are only 15-20 teams in the country that probably deserve to be called "AA" teams. All very athletic, fast, highly skilled, big, older and they can really move the ball to attack the backside. You don't have to be ashamed if your son's team is on age, not everyone's hit puberty or not everyone has the athleticism to play in college. You can have a solid "A" team of kids who are going to be strong JV or even varsity players over the next 4 years, who are learning and getting better and having fun, who are winning non-elite tournaments and who need to improve on swinging the ball around to get hockey assists or always nailing the 3rd slide. That A team is going to lose 8-2 against a AA team on a good day (and at least make the AA team break a sweat) or 15-2 on a bad day, but that's OK.

Likewise, there are tons of B teams around the country that can't compete with solid A teams on the scoreboard, but who are getting good coaching and the kids have been improving much more over the last few years than they would have had just playing rec league or will sitting on the bench of a non-hotbed varsity team.

It makes a lot of sense to understand where a team stands and for that team to go to the best tournaments to challenge themselves to get better, and not necessarily get slaughtered by higher-level teams or, in turn, slaughter lower-level teams. Maybe a mix of some "stretch" tournaments and some winnable tournaments. My kid's team had 17 competitive tournament games this Summer and 4 blowouts (in either direction, and even blowouts are good for teaching kids to be good sports, play in a different position or be able to show your kids how a higher level team moves the ball in the air, etc.)

Tide 2017 was a great team. Same philosophy same coaches for 2021. Kids from express, fl$, igloo and other programs jumping to Tide. Why would anyone spend thousands of dollars for programs that are not helping your kids get better? Remember the program names are on the helmet and uniform. It's about them not about your kid. It's about marketing and dollars. They could care less about your kid. At Tide, you wear your high school helmet. That's what the college coaches want to see. This may come as a shock but many college coaches don't trust the clubs - a club coach will lie to a college coach with no fallout. They will always get kids to sign up and pay the freight. If a high school coach lies about a kid's ability he or she is done. A college coach won't be back to that high school to recruit. Also freshman year in high school is a big turnover year in clubs- what a kid did in grades 2-8 may no longer be that relevant -- growth, speed, and strength begin to kick in at age 14.

My kid is in a very good D1 school right now, 3 other kids from long island are on team with him. all 4 of them where on B team with express in 8th grade.

Thank you Tide Owner for that pitch!

Thank you - it's like the AA teams are protecting their country club or polo club from anyone getting near it. They totally don't get it!

First of all Tide is a non profit club, I say it because tide and Kevin, was the best thing that happened for my boy. Build his confidence, played a lot, fun group of kids and parents.
Please just stay on your B team. You sound like a little [lacrosse].

Not Tide owner. It is easy to dismiss or mock people when they tell you what you don't want to hear. Or you have drank so much club kool aid that you think its real and your kid is going to get recruited because he plays for one of the other clubs? Dude get real and think about you kid - not about what club you can tell your friends he or she plays for.

This is a very good post. Know who your kids is, find the club/team that matches that while providing a challenge for him. All the rest is politics and marketing/hype.

That was my point - a proper tiering system would make all of that easier, both from the club and parent/player's perspective!

then dont tier the teams they change every year. Tier the tournaments

You can't have one without the other - it's up to a club/coach to accurately tier his team. But you do need tourneys to be tiered properly to allow an honest/realistic coach to know what tourneys are appropriate.

TONIGHT ALL WALK UPS ARE WELCOME !!!!

For more info or any questions email: Avalancheteam2021@gmail.com

JACK KALEY to Coach 2021 Igloo Avalanche Team
(Four Time NCAA D2 Championship Coach & Four Time National Coach of the Year)
2021 Igloo Avalanche Head Coach!!!


2021 Igloo Avalanche Team FREE tryout:
Date: August 16th
Time: 6pm-8pm
Location: St. Paul The Apostle Church
2534 Cedar Swamp Rd., Glen Head

Hahahahahahahahah what a joke

Is this the answer to why Tide will be good winning team this year? As you stated in a prior post Tide has been gone for a while so you may need an update. You claim Tide was great long ago. No reason not to believe you. Since then FL and gee has not had a good team, The 2021 Nassau team kept all the best players and Suffolk was a C team. Everyone makes Express top team who complains enough and the B team is really a C team and you took no players from Igloos top team. Most likely you have a bunch of B and C level players. That is fine but don't come on here stating how good the team will be and base it on taking players from these programs. Doing that may lead people to think you don't know what you are talking about which is a reflection of the club.

The biggest joke is that you still can't comprehend what the "Quote" button is for, and no one but you knows what you are talking about . . .

Non-profit does not mean people don't get paid.

I'm going to check out this Ambush team. If there are so many haters, they must be a good option.

Stop trying to cause trouble.

Trust be Tide will have a big number of D1 commits

Please name the Top recruiting Tournaments the Tide will be in
Fall and summer

They are a great option for entering B tournaments.

Hearing not much @ the Avalanche tryout tonight...

Not much what ??? There was plenty of kids and some good talent well be a nice team but more importantly will be well coached and the kids that want to be there will..... by the way don't believe everything you hear....lesson #1 in life see you in the fall pal

Unimpressed was the term used. 25 to 30 boys, handful of Igloo helmets. I trust the judgment of the source. Maybe we'll see you in the fall, maybe we won't. Fall is football season! ;-)

Sorry every kid is not as good as your little guy ... glad you trust the judgement of others he is probably the same guy who agrees with everything you say .... maybe we will see you in the fall on the football field .....let me guess oh forget it not even worth the time ...please just move on to your new home remember the grass is not always greener elsewhere....good luck

If this is true then this means only a few kids returned to the team and only has 30 kids to choose from. I would think most of the kids are using Igloo as a safety net in case they don't make a team or already need a safety net. It is doubtful anyone is going there by choice. The igloo parents I spoke with are saying the same thing a lot of kids and talent was there. Maybe they need to read from a new script since word is getting out that is not true.