BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2018 Fall 2012/Spring 2013

?? Ran the score up? The goals were made by numerous different players, lots of ball movement and passes before shots.Both teams wanted to play and the entire bench was played. I guess they could have asked the parents to switch places with the kids??

College coaches going to recruiting tournaments want to see 2014's playing 2014's and 2015's playing 2015's plain and simple - all trough PAL they pay grade based and obviously in school they play grade best - it just makes the most sense to have 8th graders play 8th graders

Actually it doesn't make any sense at all! It makes more sense for a 14 year old to play a 14 year old not a 14 year old play a 12 year old because he was he was left back or his parents held him back. This is especially true at the 7th and 8th grade level. When a kid is in his second year of puberty because he is old enough to be in High School is playing and dominating pre pubescent kids who does that benefit? It's still youth lacrosse, its about kids developing their skills. News Flash, The college coaches aren't at the 8th grade games! Once the kids are playing on varsity all bets are off and they can play at that level which would be u-17. The colleges will figure out what grade a kid is in. There are plenty of coaches at the under Armour tournament or Jake reed etc.. which has a mix of all grades! Give them credit they know what they are looking for.

do you cry like this about school ball too? when seventh graders play against 7th graders but one is older then the other? they play by grade in PAL and School but you want them to play by birthdate in the summer? makes no sense and by the way Jake Reed has different weeks for different graduating years so every kid at a certain week will be of the same class regardless of age because nobody cares about age.

crying? lol If Someone doesn't agree with you then it is crying? If you read the post, it said it was fine for town play and tournaments. There is a huge drop in level of skill and athleticism over all. At the travel level it is a whole different story. I understand that many parents hold their kids back to give them an advantage, but when a rule or proposed rule that makes the playing field fair is suggested you get twisted because your kid may not dominate? The post also noted that when they are playing varsity it doesn't matter. If you want to use graduating year from 9th grade up then fine.

Just about every other sport does it by age in travel and they play with their grade for school ball. Don't be surprised if PAL goes to age as well and follows PAL football which goes by age (and weight).

Considering a few weeks ago a 9th grade Haverford boy who had NEVER played HS lacrosse verbally committed to Hopkins, the News Flash is clearly inaccurate.

College Coaches do watch 8th games (rising 9th grade). And do want to see boys of the same class play against each other.

Don't believe everything you read in the news!!

very interesting that this thread is talking about loyalty or lack of and the express thread is complaining that the 2015 tryouts are a sham and that new kids had no chance to make the team and there was no turnover. maybe Express was being "Loyal" to a team that they developed and stayed with and won the U15 Nationals - these organizations are really damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If you are correct about 2015 not making little or no changes to the team. I don't know the facts. If that's the case then the tryout was a money grab. Most teams/coaches know before the tryout if there is someone on their radar or if they won't be making changes.

Well said!

The point to/from those were, just make people aware...

...not many if any spots are available and that you have a talent group you would like to stay together. Any outstanding player will always be considered.

...we were not as successful as we would like to have been last year and are looking for talented players to enhance the team.

Move the conversation please,this is a 2018 thread.

Ever notice its always the guy who held their kid back, to get that age advantage, telling everyone else to stop crying about it? Bottom line, when your playing down against younger, weaker, smaller, slower, less physically mature competition you look like a superstar. That's why people hold their kids back. It's a huge advantage, especially when you go to a recruiting camp and you're a rising 10th grader that's 16, and everyone else is a an older 14yo or 15yo. No crying here, just facts.

Another problem with this topic is different states start kindergarten at different ages.So some are 5 some are 4 turning 5 and some are 6.So when it comes time for college you could have a big disparity in the ages of college freshman.Not to mention the whole PG year thing,but that's a whole another topic.

Saturday morning 2018 orange express played the 2017 A jesters. Great game at the Hub, tie score...

Kindergarten is where the problem starts, 9th grade is where it ends since once you are HS nobody evaluates by age it is all grade or JV/Varsity

The question is for 7th and 8th graders should they be treated like High Schoolers and divide by grade or treated as youth players and divided by age? I personally do not know the answer

I had practice after the game the scoreboard read 11-11 I guess that was the final. Big size difference between 7th and 8th grade.

Outside NY nearly everyone has an age cutoff that prevents 4 year olds from starting Kindergarten.

If you are going to us age the US Lacrosse guidline should be the only cutoff you use.

If you held your kid back than they should play with higher grade kids until 8th grade. This is why the US Lacrosse cuts at U-15 (Technically 8th grade should be U-14)

If you are not U-15 eligible in the 8th grade that is an entirely different problem

Seriously, why would a kid be a year older than everyone else?

I see Four potential reasons------------

A-- Because the kid got left back because the teachers or parents thought he did not have sufficient test scores to advance to the next grade, or just needs another year to get up to speed, for whatever reason. Entirely possible, and completely understandable. No issues here at all.

B-- Because the kid got left back because the teachers or parents thought he was not developmentally advanced enough for the next grade. Also entirely possible, and completely understandable. No issues here at all.

C----Because the kid moved from another state. Also entirely possible, and completely understandable. No issues here at all.

D-- Because the parents wanted an advantage (however large or small) over the other kids for both academics and athletics because they felt if it was an even playing field, the kid would struggle, or at a minimum, he would not excel.

I could see how people would have an issue with answer D, because it is not fair to the others who played by the rules.

Would there be any other reasons a kid is a year older?

Just a comment on the age thing - sounds like the majority of readers on this forum actually believe a 17/18 yr old college freshman would have a shot against a 23 yr old college senior. There is a huge difference maturity-wise between the two. Perhaps even a bigger difference in college verses same age difference in hs. It is what it is.

THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT 2018 FALL/SPRING LACROSSE THIS TOPIC SHOULD HAVE ITS OWN THREAD

most school cut off dates are not hard dates - so a kid born in Oct. or Nov. the parents might have a choice to start them "on time" and be in the younger 25% of the class or hold them back for developmental reason and make them up to 14 months older then a kid who was born in Dec. and the parents started them "early". I think all of this has nothing to do with sports. on the other hand their are kids that finish the 8th grade and then repeat 8th grade at a prep school to get that extra year and and wind up being a year older.

In most schools I think you would have a normal 14 month spread between the oldest and youngest in a grade. I also think that this is a lot of talk about a relatively few kids at least here on LI.

This is a very appropriate topic for this thread.

Should 2018's (This year's crop of 7th graders) play...

U-13/U-15 depending on age

or

On a 7th Grade (2018) team regardless of age.

The forum title implies the latter yet many opinions seem to think U-13/U-15 is more apporpriate

7th Grade is the only grade where Age vs. Grade matters
The 2018 forum is the perfect forum for this topic. In 12 months 2018 parents won’t care but will instead be complaining about how unfair the NLC tryouts are.

8th Graders are invariably never U-13 eligible so they all play U-15
-Pretty much all 8th grade teams are U-15 teams
-An 8th grader who is U-13 eligible should still play U-15 to prep for HS

6th Graders(even “older” ones) are invariably always U-13 eligible so they all can play U-13
-Pretty much all 6th grade teams are U-13 teams
-A 6th grader who is U-11 eligible should still play U-13 to avoid playing with elementary school kids

7th graders fit into 1 of 4 buckets – the bucket your child fits into likely drives your opinion on this topic
-Too old for U-13 and really good – You are torn, you want your son to play with his classmates, but are tired of hearing you are playing down so you register him as an 8th grader or U-15 you want this topic to go away
-Too old for U-13 and still developing – Your boy needs to play with his classmates as he will be overwhelmed playing 8th grade completion you are pro grade based
-U-13 eligible and really good – You want the older boys playing with your son so that your son is challenged as much as possible you couldn't care less as long as the completion is good
-U-13 eligible and still developing – You are concerned about you son being overwhelmed so you want to dilute the 7th grade talent as much as possible by eliminating older 7th graders. You may view having older boys compete with your son as a safety concern you are pro age based

Thank you for this post and I could not agree more, my son is 2018 and born in 2000 so he is U13 and is an OK player. I just want good competition so he continues to get better -

Best post ive seen so far.

I know someone who fits all these levels and they are all right!

option you missed, child move here at the age of 5 with no ability to speak engish and needed the year to learn the basics.

all valid points. However, your belief that this involves relatively few kids here on LI is wrong. In certain school districts, it involves a rather large number of kids. My son has a September birthday and has been one of the youngest kids in his class every year with a few kids being more than an entire year older than him. Considering that the school cut off for most of LI is December 1st, this should not be the case.

2018 express orange played team smithtown yesterday. A few of the express boys played for team smithtown. it is great that their town lets them play both, express and town team. certain other towns will not allow boys to play both, they are told to choose...

Great game, express won but smithtown 2018 class very strong and will be in HS (kids from both east and west). watch out WI and WM...

Today, express play team li at the hub.

happy holidays to all

How was the game with TLI?

Good game , it was a scrimmage. Kids were missing on both sides. Express loaned goalies to TLI, final score though was 7-6 TLI.

My son was born on Nov 30th missing the cutoff by one day. Thank God I listened to his pre school and held him back, for one stinkin day to always be the youngest would have sucked. Sometimes he gets bored at school but developmentally it has given him an advantage in everything , really zero upside to not holding him back

"red shirting" your kindergartener has a lot of potential downside.

Any child should start school when they are intectually ready
"sometimes he gets bored at school" - could have a lot of downside - underachieving etc...

Economically, this is a bad play too. Since the odds of earning any money for athletics including scholarship and/or going pro are very low. This potential does not equate well with the loss of income that comes with joining the workforce a year later

wow - what a difference a day makes - probably the best thing a parent can do is what ever the [lacrosse] they want to do with their own kid, hold them back a day, a month, a year, or whatever, I hardly think that the decisions made at 4 or 5 years old have anything to do with sports and everything to do with development both socially and developmental. and for you to be able to critique the decision of someone else on a anonymous board is ridiculous. all they were saying is that it worked out well for them.

Everybody should do whateverthey want with their kid. Absolutely... However, until we go to age based brackets with birth certiicates to prove age, this controversy will never end. Grade based brackets fuel this conversation. Ever notice the people who claim they held their kid back for developemental reasons always say "it was the best decision for him". Oh yeah, and they never admit that it is also a huge benfit to the kid in sports... Of course it's not in the best interest in of the kids who are supposed to be in that grade. Same kid playing with kids his own age, average at best. Aged based brackets with proof of age is the only way to level things out. Somebody's gotta be the oldest, somebody's gotta be the youngest. At least we'll eliminate the crazy's who hold their kid back specifically for an advantage in sports, as well as the "it was the best decision for him" crowd...

they should also factor in height and weight as well as ethnicity, Jews and Italians mature younger so they should have a 1 year penalty and Polish and Irish mature later so they should get a one year credit - this way, all the kids will be the same height and weight and athletic ability and all games will end in a tie.

a second option would be to have all the kids graduating in the same year play against each other as they do now, whatever is better for your kid.

I couldn't agree with you more. It would eliminate all the nonsense that goes on in the sport. Also when teams play out of state it would eliminate having to play older teams that start school a year later.

This was not a critique of an anonymous post. It was a statement of facts and was not intended to offend

1-the original poster commented that their child was "bored at school" perhaps the child is very bright or the child is bored because he is more developed than his classmates. In either case the potential as well as the impact of being "bored at school" by being held back in kindergarten is significant. This should be taken into account as parent's make decisions.

2-the math behind the economics of entering the workforce at 22 instead of 23 is quite clear also. Deciding to take away an entire year of earning potential from your child is a very big decision to make. It will have much bigger impact on their life than being the youngest in their class

I think this is a great topic for a discussion forum even if it is anonymous

Nobody cares....if you are good you play....if not you watch....its a simple thing.

The poster actually stated "SOMETIMES he was bored at school". My son is within "age limits" & is "SOMETIMES bored in school". When making this decision (I also have Nov & Dec children) it should be based on emotional maturity, not intellect or size for sports.

The decision to "take away a year of earning potential from your child" amazes me...would that even come to mind when your child is 4/5? It NEVER was a thought when making decisions for my children.

Are there nutty people who do this for an advantage in sports? Probably but, for the most part it is a decision a parent has to make for their child that they will always question. Being the oldest or youngest in a grade has its pros & cons. You need to make this decision based on your childs maturity.

Not every "late birthday" kids parents are lunatics;)

Would like to offer my insight on this topic as I am a parent of a child that would be the poster child for this argument. My son was born at the end of November 1999. He made the school cutoff by a few days. We decided to send him to school and let him try it to see how he fared. Long story short, he has done wonderfully in school, academically, socially and athletically.

At present he is playing travel lacrosse with a known program and we are in a big lacrosse town. Up until this year I would say he has done very well and is a very good player. However this year i have noticed he has been struggling against the kids in his age group due to the size, strength and speed difference that starts to happen between 13 and 14,15 yr olds. It is very hard to watch him struggle after watching him for so many years compete at the highest level with these other kids, but as many of you know some of the kids he is playing against were "held back" so in some cases he could be playing against kids almost 2 years older than him.

In retrospect i dont regret my decision, because my son is turning into a great young man and I do believe all of the lacrosse stuff will even out in High School. I do somethimes ponder whether or not I should have held him back, however I think it is a decision each parent must with the childs best interests in mind.

I think the US Lacrosse age rules are fine the way the are written. The problem is the enforcement of the rules. A better system needs to be in place to ensure that kids are playing in the right brackets according to their ages.