BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Crabs Lacrosse / Baltimore Lacrosse Club

If you are referring to the word 'Fair" as fancy nancy then yes sir we are fancy nancy. Yes life is not fair but most god fearing people work towards a fair system for all. I have never once seen any one on hear argue that a kid should not be able to play up a year. As long as a kid can play up this solves all the Pro hold back peoples issues. All the guys who say I like my son to be pushed, I like my son to play with bigger stronger players. Well feel free play Johnny up a age bracket feel free.
Oh and a side note do you call youth tackle football Fancy Nacy? Because most football leagues have age and weight rules. And even the ones who go no weight limit do have a age cut off.

2016_age_weight_chart

Sure, lots of thought given. I've come to conclusion that many on both sides of the argument want their kid to seem better now, not actually be better over time. Same thing you don't like about holdback kids that stand out under the current rules, but you want to dilute the division to make your kid seem better. You want to adjust to new rules, so your kid will look better in the system, now. I totally get it. I made my kid play up until HS, because I understand the game, but do you? Winning all of your youth games and thinking you are the best at the youth level is for helicopter parents. The holdbacks that could play up will be about as successful as your kid by changing to birth year, over time. Those of us that understand the actual game use the rules to get better, not to look better when it doesn't matter. No doubt at all that some kids play down to look better, but what are you trying to accomplish for your kid? Your hate of what they do is driving you to focus on the wrong goals for your kid. Diluting the talent in your division to give an impression that the average kids are better may satisfy a short term goal for parents, but actually weakens long term potential for the players. Again, I get it, and am by no means a fan of playing down, but there is a humble way to use what you hate to get what you want. Lots of thoughts given, brother, and sure it hurts to watch kids struggle, but that's why seasoned adults are supposed to understand the marathon, and you make adjustments along the way in an attempt to balance fun and meaningful growth. My guess, the Crabs forum is not for you, but hope this helps, my friend.

So lacrosse hasn't been fair, ever? Because what you are proposing would be new. Aren't there enough teams and clubs to gauge and satisfy the talent levels now, without discriminating by private vs public school curriculum? You are proposing breaking up basically 1/3 or more of the teams per division, so it's not just like moving a handful of kids. That is a dramatic proposal for a successful industry with extraordinary consistent growth.
Why would I criticize football? I love the way they do football too, very appropriate for football.

The grade based proponents have very little argument for their cause now. The main reason from clubs ( which had some validity) was that Early Recruiting was occurring at 8th grade and 9th grade for committing 9th graders. College coaches wanted to see them in grade.

Even the NCAA saw recruiting 9th graders as a destructive thing for lacrosse .So they changed the ER rules to 11th grade. So that big grade base argument is GONE. Sidelines of 2020 and 2021 are already empty of coaches ( Ty Xanders quoted that ). High School years with school and club will be the important years for recruiting ( if that is your purpose) .

Playing up was always a big thing and badge of honor just a few years ago. Playing down was for the occasional player ( super small, etc) who everyone knew could use it. Even then they were just average at best. How it became acceptable to play down is beyond me.

Club coaches can spin it anyway they want, but youth lacrosse ( 8th and under) will not be that important for recruiting anymore.

Oh boy....

I don't want my kid to seem better now, I want him to compete and be evaluated against his actual peers. If he decides to play up against bigger stronger faster competition that should be our choice, not some other parent's.

Requiring kids to play with kids their own age is not diluting competition - it's how every other sport works.

You do not use the rules to get better, you use the lack of rules to look better. Playing down makes average kids look like studs.

If this is a marathon then the holdbacks are riding in a golf cart.

Subtext of this entire post - you tell everyone else to play up to get better and you give your kid the easy path. Sad and a poor life lesson I think. Teaching our kids to make ethical choices throughout their lives, and not look for loopholes and shortcuts, is the real marathon, and that's where you are failing badly, my friend.

So your advice is to play against these better holdback/prefirst/reclass players. It will only make you stronger. But why dont you give that same advice to these same players? Do these players get to always have an advantage for the unskilled players to train against?? LOL

Only a fool doesnt see the advantage of being the oldest prior to puberty and even first few years of puberty. The bigger players will always get more playing time with competitive youth teams.
Being a year older gets you that time. Ever here of book Outliers? Maybe read it.

Being the oldest works at Youth sports . Is that the youth sports you want?Advantage to a select few but not others with same exact birthday. Youth sports will never be perfect but age restrictions is about the best there is. All Youth sports do it except for youth lacrosse.

Sure, lots of thought given. I've come to conclusion that many on both sides of the argument want their kid to seem better now, not actually be better over time. Same thing you don't like about holdback kids that stand out under the current rules, but you want to dilute the division to make your kid seem better. You want to adjust to new rules, so your kid will look better in the system, now. I totally get it. I made my kid play up until HS, because I understand the game, but do you? Winning all of your youth games and thinking you are the best at the youth level is for helicopter parents. The holdbacks that could play up will be about as successful as your kid by changing to birth year, over time. Those of us that understand the actual game use the rules to get better, not to look better when it doesn't matter. No doubt at all that some kids play down to look better, but what are you trying to accomplish for your kid? Your hate of what they do is driving you to focus on the wrong goals for your kid. Diluting the talent in your division to give an impression that the average kids are better may satisfy a short term goal for parents, but actually weakens long term potential for the players. Again, I get it, and am by no means a fan of playing down, but there is a humble way to use what you hate to get what you want. Lots of thoughts given, brother, and sure it hurts to watch kids struggle, but that's why seasoned adults are supposed to understand the marathon, and you make adjustments along the way in an attempt to balance fun and meaningful growth. My guess, the Crabs forum is not for you, but hope this helps, my friend. [/quote]

Oh boy....

I don't want my kid to seem better now, I want him to compete and be evaluated against his actual peers. If he decides to play up against bigger stronger faster competition that should be our choice, not some other parent's.

Requiring kids to play with kids their own age is not diluting competition - it's how every other sport works.

You do not use the rules to get better, you use the lack of rules to look better. Playing down makes average kids look like studs.

If this is a marathon then the holdbacks are riding in a golf cart.

Subtext of this entire post - you tell everyone else to play up to get better and you give your kid the easy path. Sad and a poor life lesson I think. Teaching our kids to make ethical choices throughout their lives, and not look for loopholes and shortcuts, is the real marathon, and that's where you are failing badly, my friend.[/quote]

Go shove a fidget spinner up your rear end and track it with your iphone. There's no age bracket for that, and you should be quite skilled. Just teach your kid to duck, life is tough sometimes, and there's no birth year sign up once you are on your own.

I did give that advice. You only read what you wanted to read, because you are stuck on talking points. It is what it is for now, no point in talking to someone that can't open their mind for a mere second. Ever read the book Why We Suck by Dennis Leary. Definitely read it.

You're With Her

Ha. Previous poster cites an accomplished and respected author who has produced actual resesearch on the subject of age bias in youth sports. Holdback parent counters with...Dennis Leary, priceless.

Oh boy....

I don't want my kid to seem better now, I want him to compete and be evaluated against his actual peers. If he decides to play up against bigger stronger faster competition that should be our choice, not some other parent's.

Requiring kids to play with kids their own age is not diluting competition - it's how every other sport works.

You do not use the rules to get better, you use the lack of rules to look better. Playing down makes average kids look like studs.

If this is a marathon then the holdbacks are riding in a golf cart.

Subtext of this entire post - you tell everyone else to play up to get better and you give your kid the easy path. Sad and a poor life lesson I think. Teaching our kids to make ethical choices throughout their lives, and not look for loopholes and shortcuts, is the real marathon, and that's where you are failing badly, my friend.[/quote]

Go shove a fidget spinner up your rear end and track it with your iphone. There's no age bracket for that, and you should be quite skilled. Just teach your kid to duck, life is tough sometimes, and there's no birth year sign up once you are on your own.

[/quote]

We all know life is tough, how gracious of you to offer to teach everyone else's kids tough life lessons while smoothing the path for your own. Weak and pathetic.

Nice comeback, why do these threads with holdback parents always end like this? What's next..
I know you are, what am I?

Being the oldest works at Youth sports . Is that the youth sports you want?Advantage to a select few but not others with same exact birthday. Youth sports will never be perfect but age restrictions is about the best there is. All Youth sports do it except for youth lacrosse. [/quote]

I did give that advice. You only read what you wanted to read, because you are stuck on talking points. It is what it is for now, no point in talking to someone that can't open their mind for a mere second. Ever read the book Why We Suck by Dennis Leary. Definitely read it. [/quote]

Ha. Previous poster cites an accomplished and respected author who has produced actual resesearch on the subject of age bias in youth sports. Holdback parent counters with...Dennis Leary, priceless.[/quote]

Ha, original poster responds in 3rd person to someone that responds to his original post. Priceless!!! No seriously, read that book.

Go shove a fidget spinner up your rear end and track it with your iphone. There's no age bracket for that, and you should be quite skilled. Just teach your kid to duck, life is tough sometimes, and there's no birth year sign up once you are on your own.

[/quote]

We all know life is tough, how gracious of you to offer to teach everyone else's kids tough life lessons while smoothing the path for your own. Weak and pathetic.

Nice comeback, why do these threads with holdback parents always end like this? What's next..
I know you are, what am I?


[/quote]

Club is exactly as advertised, to prepare kids that want to eventually make it to Varsity HS levels, and perhaps beyond. If you want fair for all, birth year, play or fun, all of that happy horsesh*t, stay with rec and argue with those folks about the age requirements. This is a business, not a mandate, take yourself down the road to the competitor. Don't let the holdbacks slap your a*s on the way by, some of them are pretty big boys.

Last weekend on Long Island an Ivy Assistant Coach was in attendance at 8th grade games. Know this person though his parents, and he was not there for the fun of it.

We all know life is tough, how gracious of you to offer to teach everyone else's kids tough life lessons while smoothing the path for your own. Weak and pathetic.

Nice comeback, why do these threads with holdback parents always end like this? What's next..
I know you are, what am I?


[/quote]

Club is exactly as advertised, to prepare kids that want to eventually make it to Varsity HS levels, and perhaps beyond. If you want fair for all, birth year, play or fun, all of that happy horsesh*t, stay with rec and argue with those folks about the age requirements. This is a business, not a mandate, take yourself down the road to the competitor. Don't let the holdbacks slap your a*s on the way by, some of them are pretty big boys.
[/quote]

Oooh, a tersely worded response (designed to make us back down)

Yes, we all know what the club is...emblematic of everything that's wrong with youth lacrosse.

We all know life is tough, how gracious of you to offer to teach everyone else's kids tough life lessons while smoothing the path for your own. Weak and pathetic.

Nice comeback, why do these threads with holdback parents always end like this? What's next..
I know you are, what am I?


[/quote]

Club is exactly as advertised, to prepare kids that want to eventually make it to Varsity HS levels, and perhaps beyond. If you want fair for all, birth year, play or fun, all of that happy horsesh*t, stay with rec and argue with those folks about the age requirements. This is a business, not a mandate, take yourself down the road to the competitor. Don't let the holdbacks slap your a*s on the way by, some of them are pretty big boys.
[/quote]

If these are 2020 Crabs we are talking about then the on-age kids from Crush will be spanking them...each and every time.

Denver, 19-8, never forget!

Complete and utter BS...Sorry Ryan..8th grade is no longer in the mix for recruiting. Your logic for an Ivy watching 8th grade for recruiting is beyond Hilarious!
2021 has very little college coaches right now. Mainly leftovers from a bygone era. 9th and 10 grade HS and summer club will be the time of possible looks by coaches. Of course no contact until 11th

Club is exactly as advertised, to prepare kids that want to eventually make it to Varsity HS levels, and perhaps beyond. If you want fair for all, birth year, play or fun, all of that happy horsesh*t, stay with rec and argue with those folks about the age requirements. This is a business, not a mandate, take yourself down the road to the competitor. Don't let the holdbacks slap your a*s on the way by, some of them are pretty big boys.
[/quote]

If these are 2020 Crabs we are talking about then the on-age kids from Crush will be spanking them...each and every time.

Denver, 19-8, never forget![/quote]

Ahhh, living vicariously through teams that your kid isn't even on, so great

you are an IDIOT...tell your hold back kid to play with kids his own AGE...maybe that will prepare him to play HS or beyond...

Just for fun or to prove your point, look up the ages of Rambo, Pons and Colin Heacock. Three of the best to ever come through College Park including the Tewaaraton winner. I will save you some time. All of them turned 20 way before your typical college student. No prep school just good ole fashion hold backs.
Holding back works at youth, high school and college levels. Look at the kids at Navy who are 21 year old freshman. They are pre-first, held back, prepped then on to Annapolis. Service academies are the biggest benefactors of hold backs.
By the time they are a pro, time catches up but by then who cares. They have the awards and degree from a university.
You may see it as unfair or not right but it is not a violation of the rules (which don't really exist).
If a parent wants to hold their kid back then that is the way it is. I'm going to hold back all four (2 already) of my boys because it works. When your kid is fighting for that D2 look my kid will have a 50% scholarship to Penn or Princeton.
"You are living through your kids" damn right.

50% scholarship to an Ivy school. Dream on. Never has happened and never will. My son played for and graduated from Princeton, I know how it works and what is offered/given out and it is not 50%.

Pathetic - let your kid live his own life rather than you pulling the strings just to give yourself something to talk about at the water cooler. And service academy kids are a large part public school kids who do a PG year AFTER they have completed high school. Many private kids -especiallybholdbacks who needed the extra year to look better- can't cut the lifestyle. Very sad your single focus to raise the next star? Bitter about spending the extra $ for that extra year with the new rules?

Your facts about Princeton are incorrect. Doors open and scholarships/grants come in when you can play. 50% is about the norm for family income levels below $200k. If you actually went through the process you would know that.

OK, you let your kid do what he wants so he can experience real life. Enjoy the literal funeral after the drug OD or food prep job. No one said anything about a star but facts are hard to argue when you have none to present. No extra money coming at all. Never mind you don't have the capacity to follow the reality. All the academies have well over 50% of their classes over the normal age group... I'll stop while you look it up. Don't trust what you read on chat board, do your own research.

Your kid can't hack it vs his peers so he has to play against his younger brother to look good. You are weak.

Academies in general do not have older kids. The sports teams do make use of a PG year at the military prep schools for some of their kids but as the poster above said PG Prep year is just that - a post graduate year after graduating from high school. NOT in 8th grade or high school when kids have not yet hit puberty and are playing against kids 50 pounds lighter and try to say they are so much better for daddy's sake or to get that extra look.

You like statistics so much you must realize that " 61 % of public schools kids were exposed to drugs at school compared to 54 percent in private schools." Both sets of kids are at HIGH risk for drug OD so please get your head out of the sand and realize you are not insulating your child from anything by sending them to private and holding him back etc, in order to set them up. Also the kids that survive best and are the most successful often had what you would term a "food prep job" or some similar hard working job . Can you be any more clueless and elitist?

You are not a strong reader. No more for you. You are blind or ignorant. Either way no more for you. Good luck and make sure the fries are done.

Not sure where you get your facts but all three went to Private prep schools. Heacock and Pons both went to Boys Latin,, King of the holdbacks in MIAA.

I do agree tho. It does seem that holding back your kid gives you a better chance than not. And especially at youth level where you will get more touches, playing time, etc.. . Frankly if you can hold him back..why not..It cant hurt.

I dont agree with the whole thing but I see the results. And none of mine are heldback, But if they were..WOW..

Of course it gives it an advantage. Your kid is playing against his little brother. I'm gonna have my kid do Pre K, reclass in 6th grade, reclass in 8th grade and PG before college. He will 25 years old before he graduates and will have a head start on getting social security. Suck it you holdback detractors.

you're an idiot... its a business? most of these clubs are non-profit(joke) If you think hold backs prefirst taking a spot on a club for the kids that do it right isn't wrong then you have a problem. Playing up was cool back in the day. Parents are afraid their kid may fail so let johnny play down so he can stand out. GO BACK TO BIRTHDAYS EVERY OTHER SPORT DOES IT.

Ha! This made me laugh while drinking my coffee. Funny stuff.

This makes no sense. But...you are great at hurling "insults". Too funny.

Unfortunately this is the only way to handle it.

Dear Officers of Baltimore Lacrosse Club,
It has come to our attention that several players on the grade based lacrosse teams you run (Crabs Lacrosse), and tournaments you operate (Young Gunz / Crab feast) have players participating on grade based teams down a grade from their official "currently enrolled" status. As participants of "BLC" events, we have a right as consumers to expect our child's safety is your utmost concern. As such, please make public the grade verification process your club and tournaments use to ensure the safety and welfare for all those participating. In addition you are hereby put on official "Notice" that if a player with any officer of BLC or their parents knowledge participates on a team or division other than his official currently enrolled grade you and the participating players parents will be held personally liable for any injury that may occur due to that player participating on a team or in a division lower than their current grade. We thank you for your continued commitment to offer safe and fair events for our children.

Fart. Yawn.

Calm down Ryan.. it is not like he taking food from your mouth!

This is the dumbest post that I think I have ever read on here and that is saying a lot.

You do know that both Penn and Princeton DO NOT offer any athletic scholarships for ANY sport. When you were held back I think the teachers called in flunking a grade

you do have the right as a consumer and that right is to stay home...don't play in the tournament..but no they run first class tournaments with great competition so you want to be a part of it because that's where the coaches are. If you think your child is at risk why put them in harms way...sounds like the parent is the liable one here... go play max lax with the other rec teams

Just don't play in the tournament. If enough clubs ignore Crabs and the like they will have to change. As long as your club continues to feed the beast your fear they only become stronger.

Make stand or shut your mouth.

Isn't club advertised as pairing up talent by skill at the grade level, for development, to help on the path to succeed at HS Varsity and College levels? Who advertised club as a means of pairing up kids by birth year? Why would you sign up and pay $2k if you were looking for something else? That is just stupid. Why would happy customers want to dilute the skill level among their current grade? That sounds really really stupid. You contaminate your brain with this holdback argument, after hearing someone else complain for a couple years, then your kid walks through the doors into HS, and....poof, meant nothing, real world hits. If you are that worried about it, we are a free society, go start a competing league for customers seeking birth year competition. Seriously, it may take off and be great. For us happy club customers, we'll just take exactly what we paid for, but thank you for your concern.