BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Why does every forum devolve into complaining about the age of kids?

Is that really the most interesting thing happening in the HoCo league?

People are complaining about what they deem "holdbacks", which you are now making worse by calling them "select". The only basis to call someone a "holdback", in a grade-based system, is that they deviate from the public school grade 1-12 curriculum. Private schools are very prevalent in the area, so why are we considering public school kids ok, and private kids not? It's not playing down either way! If anything, just let public school kids subtract one year when they register to head off the year of the painful drivel. I'm not explaining to my 3rd grader why some butthurt parent of one of his teammates keeps calling him a 4th grader! Get the rules changed, or accept it when you pay the bill, and shut up about the kids. And yes, third world.
[/quote]

Only one getting Butthurt is you trying to explain that had to do prefrst.
I can see you bought into the whole prefirst logic spewed out by the school.

Only problem is that it has nothing to do with what we are discussing. You feel your prefirst should get an advantage ( play at one level) another child born on same day doesnt at youth sports. So you think that is ok in youth sports, The majority of people dont feel your prefirst should get an advantage others dont get.. Pretty simple except to butthurt apologists like you! LOL
[/quote]

Practice, coaching, best competition possible. If the biggest thing you have going is argument about a year age gap, good luck with lacrosse!

No, the fact that Mark Millon hasn't been banned yet is. How can a coach yell break his arm and instruct his team to injure the other team, call a kid a [lacrosse], drop the f bomb, and openly heckle opposing players, and nothing happen to him. The guy obviously can't control his rage. Daddy ball at the worst.

The league is going very well this year. The officiating has been solid, consistent and placed safety over competition. I have seen a lot f 2022 and 2023 and the teams seem pretty well balanced. The divisions are a little odd, having two AA division in 2022 is a little silly. The AA teams should be A, mixed in with some of the A classifications, and most A teams should be B.

2023 has been a lot of fun. Every team has 2-3 outstanding players. Team 91 goalie is a brick wall. It is fun to watch the kids walk on and off the field with such camaraderie. The score can be pretty one sided but most of the kids are over it quickly.

The coaching has been very good as well. Very supportive.

back in the day(glory days)if you were good you played up. Everything use to be by BIRTH DAYS...soccer does it football, baseball, volley ball, basketball too. Every YOUTH sport does it except for lacrosse. Private schools are trying to hold on to there advantage in the sport. ITS CRIMINAL that the sport does not go back to birthdays and if teams break up until high school that's just too bad. if parents leagues tournaments don't recognize its a problem the complaining will continue. Every time a holdback, prefirst beats a kid out that's doing it right he is just screwing that kid. GO BACK TO BIRTHDAYS!!!! problem solved...then we can find something else to complain about...

Not sure criminal..But the system as it is now is not in the spirit of youth sports and everything we are taught about fair play for the youths of today.
One of biggest excuses for grade base was recruiting in 9th grade by college. That is gone now as of April 26 by NCAA. 11th grade is earliest you can have contact with college coach and that includes College coaches talking to Club coaches. 10th grade will be the new 8th grade for recruiting and 9th will be the new 7th for recruiting .. So 8th will be the new 6th..not sure that excuse holds up now. But I am sure the parents of older children and Club Directors have new and improved reasons for grade base without age restrictions.

"Most of us don't care", that's a lie. Most of us do care.... recent legislation says that. Your small circle of friends may not care about fair play but the majority of us do.

Cant you come up with something better than that. The equivalent to every year grade base league (ages from 1 to 2 years , birthdays do not matter with some kids playing down others not) and an age based league on a simple U15,14,13,12, etc..(ages all within a year) .... Not sure why grade based proponents cant get that thru their head. It is a simple concept??

Youth lacrosse was never birthdays, unless maybe your glory days were during the Korean War. You are comparing it to sports that are 3x, 4x, 5x larger, not enough kids historically to field one team per birth year in the rec leagues. Youth lacrosse has been 2 year age spreads (U15, U13, U11, etc) for many decades.

If the leagues went to birth year, strong kids would start playing up, then you would have to come up with a new label. How are the libs going to handle a 3rd grader beating out a 4th grader? Oh the revolt, these younger kids should not be moving up. Wait, we can revive the height/weight argument. In today's world, we may be able to sell a speed argument.

How hard is it to understand that it was birthdays?? It just was two year birthdays. But even with the 2 year spread. Every other year you were with the older group. And anyone that played in MYLA knew a few years ago. The A teams were mainly second year players with some good first year players mixed in ( in other words playing up) And if it was a single U based league like a 15,14,13,12,.. instead of single grade base like now. The U leagues would be only a year difference max.

But now with single grade base..Age doesnt matter and some kids always are the oldest starting at 9 years old.. Yea thats fair at youth sports

What legislation are you talking about? Nothing has been passed about youth ages.

How hard is it to understand that it was birthdays?? It just was two year birthdays. But even with the 2 year spread. Every other year you were with the older group. And anyone that played in MYLA knew a few years ago. The A teams were mainly second year players with some good first year players mixed in ( in other words playing up) And if it was a single U based league like a 15,14,13,12,.. instead of single grade base like now. The U leagues would be only a year difference max.

But now with single grade base..Age doesnt matter and some kids always are the oldest starting at 9 years old.. Yea thats fair at youth sports[/quote]

Two year birthdays. So great.

Actually, most of us don't care and are tired of this argument. There was a 2 year spread in the U9, U11, U13 model. Grade based ends up with kids closer in age than that as it is very rare for prefirst kids to have a birthday earlier than spring.[/quote]

"Most of us don't care", that's a lie. Most of us do care.... recent legislation says that. Your small circle of friends may not care about fair play but the majority of us do.[/quote]

What next, the I know you are but what am I argument. Legislation says your liberal whiner baby pussybow hat my kid is always a champion nonsense has been overruled.

"Most of us don't care", that's a lie. Most of us do care.... recent legislation says that. Your small circle of friends may not care about fair play but the majority of us do.[/quote]

What next, the I know you are but what am I argument. Legislation says your liberal whiner baby pussybow hat my kid is always a champion nonsense has been overruled.
Name calling is always the answer when you have nothing intelligent to say
[/quote]

You are the same person that says it's not cheating. Very precise and unable to understand the spirit of things.

Think he is talking about recent NCAA legislation to ban recruiting or even talking to players prior to Sept 1 Junior year. That includes talking to the players club coaches . Went into effect April 26. You will no longer hear about any 9th or 10th grade commitments this year or in future . The only commitments you will hear from now on this year will be class of 2018 and on Sept 1 Class of 2019 commits.

This takes away the critical 8th grade year as so important for recruiting 9th graders. That recruiting of 9th graders in many respects helped fuel the fire for getting any advantage for your child at 8th grade down. Club Directors were biggest proponents of we need grade based players to show college coaches 9th graders for recruiting.

Well all that is gone now. But I am sure there will be new excuses for grade base without age restritions. Hopefully some sanity comes back to youth club. But the money grab bag is out there. That will be hard to stop.

Wonder how the lacrosse world will survive without the constant talk of 9th grade commits ( over 100 this year) and 10th grade commits ( over 250) ..the Horror the Horror..

Anyone seen any games? Just wondering because this is some tired s++T.
Dont fight your battles here fight them with the teams and leagues. What a waste of time.
This is probably the same guy writing back to himself.

Nevermind

I don't think lacrosse parents of private school kids that either repeated or did pre-1st really care if they change youth to age, but they do care when kids are criticized while playing under the current rules. Most would probably push their kids up a bracket if the talent got diluted, but right now, the AA divisions are so competitive, there is no need to play outside of grade.

just an FYI, College coaches are not banned from speaking with HS or Club coaches prior to 9/1 Junior yr. They may not use said HS/club coaches to communicate offers etc. But the can call the kids coach to ask if he's a hard worker, gets good grades etc.

Why is there no medics at the games?

I think it was a really good point to let people know that the college coaches are allowed and still will look at the 8th to 10th graders. And they will still be reaching out to the club coach and high school coach to see what schools and what the kids grades are like. So with the old rule you could tell the club owner to hit the bricks the second you got on 10 or so D1 coaches radar. Now with the new rule you will be under the club owners thumb all the way up tell Sept. 1st of your sons Jr. year. You will have to take his word that X amount of coaches have called and asked about your son. You will have to guess if he is telling the truth when he said Maryland really like your Johnny and they want him bad. This new rule will also force you to pay for and attend way more school run prospect days. And how will you know which prospect days your son should attend? You might be told by a coach or club owner your kid is D1 material but on Sept 1 you will be getting no phone calls and you just spent the last three years sending your son to 3 or 4 D1 prospect days a year. You have not even looked at a D2 or D3 school. This rule is not good for the kids its good for the D1 college coaches and the money they will be pulling in from the camps and Prospect days. Please check back on here when you emails are being filled with 71 different schools camp or prospect day emails. And please fill me in on how you know which one to send your kid too?

If you don't trust your club coach maybe your son shouldn't be playing for him. A more objective source will be the HS coaches who can now be more involved. In Maryland the litmus test might be if your are a sophmore and a varsity contributor on MIAA A conference team or if public school a varsity starter and among the best at your position in your county - then pretty good bet your kid can play D1 at some level. That said Pat Spencer was on JV as a soph and look at him now.

So was the Team88+3 owner kicked out or not? If not, someone should sue HoCo,

Hoco rules
"Incidents / Injuries

• Games played on HCRP sites will have a Conference supplied Scorekeeper/Field Supervisor on duty. All Incidents/Injuries should be reported to this employee for documentation.

• Games played on facilities outside of Howard County should report all Incidents/Injuries to the Conference Commissioner within 24 hours of the scheduled game."

"• Each team must have a first aid kit, Ice (either fresh or chemical cold packs), and a container of Bleach - use on equipment in case of a bleeding injury. "

What is worse in that particular instance, the TRUE 2020 Crabs team and the Crabs organization was embarrassed on national TV by 91 Crush when the Crabs were forced to play with on age kids . Who does it really benefit , in this case certainly not the on age kids or the team.

What a doomsday scenario?? Why are they asking the club coaches so much about grades and what kind of kid he is??? The High School coach will be the go to guy?? High school coaches will be a better person to know as they will have 1 to 2 years with the player and his school.

I see Club Coaches losing influence not gaining. As it was, you better be on a good club team with influence to get recognized in 8th and 9th grade. What a joke the club youth system is now. Constant Holdbacks, 3rd thru 8th grade players not playing other sports due to not wanting to miss out on the important 8th and 9th grade recruitment years.

Club coaches will have some say but only some. Nothing like they have now with all this ER. I see sanity coming back to Club lacrosse. It will not be important until 9th grade. Best College teams and coaches will wait and look at 9th and 10 graders as they will be in in drivers seat for getting best players. There is only 12.6 scholarships..that isnt changing

I disagree about the interest or willingness of HS coaches to get too much more involved in the recruiting process than they are already at. Most of them hold down teaching jobs at the schools that they coach, or if hired in a Public School setting, likely have full time jobs outside of their school coaching assignment. The club system has actually lifted a burden from most HS coaches, who by and large are pleased to be a part of a shared approach to the matter. Until proven otherwise, I remain convinced that this plays into the hands of the college coaches and their pecuniary and lifestyle interests, and those of clubs that have built up over the course of the past 10 years a decent working relationship with the coaching community. It was a blatant power grab by the coaching associations, and even they do not understand what the downstream ramifications of all this will actually be. One thing though that will not be compromised and those are the established pipeline connections that have been established, e.g. Boys Latin, Crabs, ACC/BIG/Service Academies. That's just our area. These same pipelines have been established in Long Island, PA, and emerging in the Midwest and West Coast. There is a place and purpose for everyone in this process though the details of the new cooperative model, will take some time to evolve. Must my humble opinion.

That is a great question! The HOCO rules require each team to be properly credentialed and wearing ID badges (no one does), and ALSO bring a medical kit to the games with them. In the three years that my son has played in HOCO, I have only observe one team, at the 2021 "B" level carry a medical bag, as required to the game.

Medics at youth lacrosse games? Where does this happen? On our team, the first aid kit is carried by the team mom, a parent or the coaches' significant other. Some tournaments have trainers but there is rarely medics on site for any youth sport -especially league play. Do you really expect a league to test each coach to see if they have their first aid kit? Our coaches need to look out for the best interest of their players-not expect someone else to do it.

When there is 3 games going on at one time in 5 different locations it should be the leagues policy to have some type of medic/trainer/emt
at each site. This league is like no other in the country and each weekend is run like a tournament. This past weekend several kids where hurt badly and coaches , refs and parents had to make real medical decisions about kids that where not moving on the ground. It also took 20 mins in one of the cases. Of course coaches should have to required kit on the sideline but to say the league should check Coaches for proper ID badges and medical kit. They should also have at least 1 qualified trainer and each facility. So yes I really expect it!

Who's in and who's out in the HOCO 2023AA playoffs?

Happy Mothers Day

a few MD teams and possible VA as well.

Did Mark Millon get ejected from 2024 game today? What did he do this time?

Looking at all the of HoCo top leagues for each age, here is how the clubs with more than 3 team represented did:

Bethesda/DC Express (6 Top Level Teams) - 75% Win Percentage
Hawks (6 Top Level Teams) - 75% Win Percentage
Crabs (4 Top Level Teams) - 58% Win Percentage
Madlax (6 Top Level Teams) - 55% Win Percentage
Team 91 MD (5 Top Level Teams) - 53% Win Percentage
FCA (4 Top Level Teams) - 42% Win Percentage
Looney's (5 Top Level Teams) - 33% Win Percentage
Diamondbacks API/Arden (4 Top Level Teams) - 33% Win Percentage
Next Level (4 Top Level Teams) - 33% Win Percentage

Club Blue. Rough Riders, Greene Turtle, Lax Factory, Kooper's, Bitmore, and Breakers had one or two top level teams as misc. age levels.

Pretty clear who the top 2 Clubs are / top to bottom.

Crabs and Madlax without a doubt!!

I don't know whether to be really impressed, or just feel sorry for whoever took the time to calculate these percentages. Somebody has way too much time on their hands. Programs can fluctuate a lot from year to year. Win percentages don't tell you anything. Bethesda 2021, Hawks 2022, Crabs 2023, Madlax 2024 have dominated. But we can all agree that Team 91 MD just sucks, and always will.

Yes, have not heard the details of why, but his team was winning by quite a few points. My question is will HOCO enforce their rules and make him sit out a game this weekend?