BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys High School

16 years old in April of his Freshman year of high school. Sheesh. The Gilman kid is 17 - born 3/2000.

I was wondering why they havent competed in years. They have been the bottom feeder of the Balt County teams for years. They have a prefirst class?? Maybe enlarge that class and take some reclassed players. Everyone else is

Fat Crab and the Gilman kid interviewed by us lacrosse magazine about the recruiting rule change. Mr. "Selling the dream" and his holdbacks don't like the fact their reclassed kids actually have to perform against kids who have gone through puberty - boo hoo.

what two classes are they? 2020 & 2021?

Spalding 2021 and 2022 classes are strong (even relative to the standard of the MIAA-A)

Blah blah blah

What club do these 2021 kids play for?

Spalding has been saying this about their "recruiting classes" for years. They have talked and talked about the incredible class of 2017 class who will graduate with 2 league wins in 4 years... thats brutal.
Don't be shocked when they are moved to the B conference

they are 9-12 right? How do they even have a 2022 "class". Kids committing early there?

Why do people get wound up? Other than local bragging rights nobody GAF about HS lacrosse. Recruiting happens at the club level and the 18 year old still has an advantage against the 16 year old there.

Saying "they're all in HS now" is the primary deflection tactic of a holdback parent.

Holding your child back works unfortunately. Many coaches and parents associated with MIAA have held their sons back for years in prefirst. They know the drill. And many are not summer birthdays as the apologists love to point out. It gives them a boost and if they are a decent player as they get older in their age group..they are a good player when playing down in grade. When HS rolls around many of these players are usually starters on JV at the very least. They usually get more playing time and reps at youth level. After that it is up to them. But there is a reason that starters even in HS are usually Seniors and Juniors..They are older..so being held back is an advantage even in HS. Maybe not as much , but it is.

If you could and you kid is really into lacrosse...You would be a fool not to reclass him in 8th grade if you didnt do prefirst. But even better if you are in Baltimore and a lacrosse person, start your child late. It can only help if he like lacrosse later.

JV daddy ball coach making promises.

Why do you care how old a kid on varsity is as long as he did not hit his 19th Birthday before starting his senior year? That's the only rule for miaa.[/quote]
I believe that is the rule for most HS's. People get so wound up about this. Maybe there are some advantages for middle school grade teams but HS is HS and your are going to have at least a 4 year variance across players ages and even more in college if they're lucky enough to play at that level...[/quote]

Why do people get wound up? Other than local bragging rights nobody GAF about HS lacrosse. Recruiting happens at the club level and the 18 year old still has an advantage against the 16 year old there.

Saying "they're all in HS now" is the primary deflection tactic of a holdback parent.[/quote]

You actually typically care, unless your high school is a real pile of donkey dung.

Why do you care how old a kid on varsity is as long as he did not hit his 19th Birthday before starting his senior year? That's the only rule for miaa.[/quote]
I believe that is the rule for most HS's. People get so wound up about this. Maybe there are some advantages for middle school grade teams but HS is HS and your are going to have at least a 4 year variance across players ages and even more in college if they're lucky enough to play at that level...[/quote]

Why do people get wound up? Other than local bragging rights nobody GAF about HS lacrosse. Recruiting happens at the club level and the 18 year old still has an advantage against the 16 year old there.

Saying "they're all in HS now" is the primary deflection tactic of a holdback parent.[/quote]

Holding your child back works unfortunately. Many coaches and parents associated with MIAA have held their sons back for years in prefirst. They know the drill. And many are not summer birthdays as the apologists love to point out. It gives them a boost and if they are a decent player as they get older in their age group..they are a good player when playing down in grade. When HS rolls around many of these players are usually starters on JV at the very least. They usually get more playing time and reps at youth level. After that it is up to them. But there is a reason that starters even in HS are usually Seniors and Juniors..They are older..so being held back is an advantage even in HS. Maybe not as much , but it is.

It's obvious, and comical, when a public school parent tries to explain pre-first, desperately trying to tie it to sports. Just for the record, no, parents aren't holding their kid back in pre-first (at 5-6 years old) because one day they may get an advantage at middle school, or high school sports. Just no. Most kids at this age haven't even started sports, or spend most of the time picking dandelions on the field of whatever sport they did get signed up for, so no, most people aren't just arbitrarily shelling out an extra 25-30k just yet!! Now, for those that can gently remove head from arse for just one moment, let me try to help you. After kindergarten, the schools will conduct a conference with the parents, and most kids in private school are recommended for prefirst. Some object, and move on to first grade, most don't. Unless your kid is really big, really late birthday, really smart, or you are really poor or really old school, most just do it because it seems like the right thing to do (you know, maybe follow an evolving educational system, rather than just do what the government has done for 100 years). Private school is just simply more challenging, so not surprised there is an extra grade, for those that wish to do it. And, no, kindergarten and first grade teachers don't give a monkey turd about MS or HS lacrosse. They care about childhood development, as in social and academic. This whole reality is why we see many lateral transfers from public to private, or some repeating in MS, because they are behind the pre-first kids. Sure, there are some kids and parents out there with a big chip on their shoulder when they step out on the lacrosse field as a holdback, but the schools make very thoughtful decisions when it comes to evaluating a kid's option to repeat a grade. The argument as it pertains to the club lacrosse brackets should be a rules argument with the league, not criticism to parents or players for the educational decisions they make as a family.

7th & 8th grade?

Rumor has it most of the Hawks and Diamondbacks from these years are going to Spalding.

If the Hawks 2021 and 2022 kids go to Spalding the Diamondbacks kids will not play or get cut.

Question: Who at Spalding is doing to coach / develop / lead this incoming legion of stud Jimmy Laxalots? Last I checked there was no real alumni core at Spalding and the head coach was advertising for assistants on Twitter (while counting down the days until he can upgrade and go home to Severn)

Life on I-97 and at the bottom of the A Conference... There is no lacrosse tradition, just an endless well of "potential"

I believe that is the rule for most HS's. People get so wound up about this. Maybe there are some advantages for middle school grade teams but HS is HS and your are going to have at least a 4 year variance across players ages and even more in college if they're lucky enough to play at that level...[/quote]

Why do people get wound up? Other than local bragging rights nobody GAF about HS lacrosse. Recruiting happens at the club level and the 18 year old still has an advantage against the 16 year old there.

Saying "they're all in HS now" is the primary deflection tactic of a holdback parent.[/quote]

You actually typically care, unless your high school is a real pile of donkey dung.[/quote]

Well perhaps you care...but it does not matter. Club play is what matters, if your goal is recruiting, and there a 2 year gap is still an advantage.

I believe that is the rule for most HS's. People get so wound up about this. Maybe there are some advantages for middle school grade teams but HS is HS and your are going to have at least a 4 year variance across players ages and even more in college if they're lucky enough to play at that level...[/quote]

Why do people get wound up? Other than local bragging rights nobody GAF about HS lacrosse. Recruiting happens at the club level and the 18 year old still has an advantage against the 16 year old there.

Saying "they're all in HS now" is the primary deflection tactic of a holdback parent.[/quote]

Holding your child back works unfortunately. Many coaches and parents associated with MIAA have held their sons back for years in prefirst. They know the drill. And many are not summer birthdays as the apologists love to point out. It gives them a boost and if they are a decent player as they get older in their age group..they are a good player when playing down in grade. When HS rolls around many of these players are usually starters on JV at the very least. They usually get more playing time and reps at youth level. After that it is up to them. But there is a reason that starters even in HS are usually Seniors and Juniors..They are older..so being held back is an advantage even in HS. Maybe not as much , but it is.

It's obvious, and comical, when a public school parent tries to explain pre-first, desperately trying to tie it to sports. Just for the record, no, parents aren't holding their kid back in pre-first (at 5-6 years old) because one day they may get an advantage at middle school, or high school sports. Just no. Most kids at this age haven't even started sports, or spend most of the time picking dandelions on the field of whatever sport they did get signed up for, so no, most people aren't just arbitrarily shelling out an extra 25-30k just yet!! Now, for those that can gently remove head from arse for just one moment, let me try to help you. After kindergarten, the schools will conduct a conference with the parents, and most kids in private school are recommended for prefirst. Some object, and move on to first grade, most don't. Unless your kid is really big, really late birthday, really smart, or you are really poor or really old school, most just do it because it seems like the right thing to do (you know, maybe follow an evolving educational system, rather than just do what the government has done for 100 years). Private school is just simply more challenging, so not surprised there is an extra grade, for those that wish to do it. And, no, kindergarten and first grade teachers don't give a monkey turd about MS or HS lacrosse. They care about childhood development, as in social and academic. This whole reality is why we see many lateral transfers from public to private, or some repeating in MS, because they are behind the pre-first kids. Sure, there are some kids and parents out there with a big chip on their shoulder when they step out on the lacrosse field as a holdback, but the schools make very thoughtful decisions when it comes to evaluating a kid's option to repeat a grade. The argument as it pertains to the club lacrosse brackets should be a rules argument with the league, not criticism to parents or players for the educational decisions they make as a family. [/quote]

Only one making excuses is you. No one cares about prefirst and what you do with your child for any reason in school. Even for sports in school. Who cares. What people have an issue with is the select kids being able to play down in YOUTH sports. Do you get that.. The majority of kids did not do prefirst or go to private school... Why do these select kids get an advantage other children same exact birthday and age dont get?? This is YOUTH sports..all should get it or none..pretty simple concept except to long winded apologists like you who want to bring strawman arguments into this issue.

I am very familiar with the MIAA Balt private schools. They are great schools to educate children. I had one finish and Two still go to private. And if you dont think that sports is thought of when these kids do prefirst...well you either are ignorant or have your head in sand. Of course other factors are also responsible as some children dont even play sports that do prefirst. Most schools encourage strongly the parents of kindergarten boys to do prefirst if they are born in the summer.

spalding has won 2 miaa games in the past 3 or 4 seasons so of course they are going to hold out hope some 7th graders can help them. If a parent has any interest in lacrosse they should be sending the kid to Severn, St. Mary's or Severna Park. The 21's they are getting are team cancers, just ask any Hawk parent. There is a reason those kids are going to Spalding...

Just parts of those teams. Some are still going to be at Severna Park and South River.

[quote=Anonymous]spalding has won 2 miaa games in the past 3 or 4 seasons so of course they are going to hold out hope some 7th graders can help them. If a parent has any interest in lacrosse they should be sending the kid to Severn, St. Mary's or Severna Park. The 21's they are getting are team cancers, just ask any Hawk parent. There is a reason those kids are going to Spalding...


....why does everything have to have a such a toxic slant......the poster above had an opinion that there were strong classes heading to Spalding, just an opinion , thats all...nothing provocative ....next thing you know we are talking about team cancers.....lol.... really?

The interesting thing is those that are actually in the game - like the coaches, players, trainers, ADs, parents (mostly) have great respect for each other, and the sport - and genuinely get along - its a lacrosse family- they compete hard and walk off the field friends that do business together, help each other, and do whatever possible to make a student-athletes journey a great one...

Holding your child back works unfortunately. Many coaches and parents associated with MIAA have held their sons back for years in prefirst. They know the drill. And many are not summer birthdays as the apologists love to point out. It gives them a boost and if they are a decent player as they get older in their age group..they are a good player when playing down in grade. When HS rolls around many of these players are usually starters on JV at the very least. They usually get more playing time and reps at youth level. After that it is up to them. But there is a reason that starters even in HS are usually Seniors and Juniors..They are older..so being held back is an advantage even in HS. Maybe not as much , but it is.

It's obvious, and comical, when a public school parent tries to explain pre-first, desperately trying to tie it to sports. Just for the record, no, parents aren't holding their kid back in pre-first (at 5-6 years old) because one day they may get an advantage at middle school, or high school sports. Just no. Most kids at this age haven't even started sports, or spend most of the time picking dandelions on the field of whatever sport they did get signed up for, so no, most people aren't just arbitrarily shelling out an extra 25-30k just yet!! Now, for those that can gently remove head from arse for just one moment, let me try to help you. After kindergarten, the schools will conduct a conference with the parents, and most kids in private school are recommended for prefirst. Some object, and move on to first grade, most don't. Unless your kid is really big, really late birthday, really smart, or you are really poor or really old school, most just do it because it seems like the right thing to do (you know, maybe follow an evolving educational system, rather than just do what the government has done for 100 years). Private school is just simply more challenging, so not surprised there is an extra grade, for those that wish to do it. And, no, kindergarten and first grade teachers don't give a monkey turd about MS or HS lacrosse. They care about childhood development, as in social and academic. This whole reality is why we see many lateral transfers from public to private, or some repeating in MS, because they are behind the pre-first kids. Sure, there are some kids and parents out there with a big chip on their shoulder when they step out on the lacrosse field as a holdback, but the schools make very thoughtful decisions when it comes to evaluating a kid's option to repeat a grade. The argument as it pertains to the club lacrosse brackets should be a rules argument with the league, not criticism to parents or players for the educational decisions they make as a family. [/quote]

Only one making excuses is you. No one cares about prefirst and what you do with your child for any reason in school. Even for sports in school. Who cares. What people have an issue with is the select kids being able to play down in YOUTH sports. Do you get that.. The majority of kids did not do prefirst or go to private school... Why do these select kids get an advantage other children same exact birthday and age dont get?? This is YOUTH sports..all should get it or none..pretty simple concept except to long winded apologists like you who want to bring strawman arguments into this issue.

I am very familiar with the MIAA Balt private schools. They are great schools to educate children. I had one finish and Two still go to private. And if you dont think that sports is thought of when these kids do prefirst...well you either are ignorant or have your head in sand. Of course other factors are also responsible as some children dont even play sports that do prefirst. Most schools encourage strongly the parents of kindergarten boys to do prefirst if they are born in the summer.
[/quote]

Just because someone chooses to send their kid to a third world school with a curriculum from the stone age, doesn't mean I have to tell my private school 2nd grader to pretend he/she is a 3rd grader at lacrosse practice.

with all of the talk about holdbacks and the age limit can anyone at all give just one instance when a good player that was held back like everyone says missed their SR season because of age? I have NEVER heard of this happening and with all holdbacks that people claim you would think you would hear about that....must not be an issue

No one ever double holdbacks. It is just a common fabrication when a really big kid dominates a smaller kid.

That's because most coaches know it exists and they look the other way in case they ever have a player like that. This is an anonymous board but I have heard it directly from the mouth of an MIAA lacrosse coach. They don't check. Don't ask, don't tell.

Coaches all know each other. No one is making an issue of the rare kid that is 19.

Of course not at school. But in the outside world of youth sports they go by age. Ooops..Not youth lacrosse. They give special privileges to select kids that were heldback in school and let them play down..Ooops I mean it is within the rules

Spoken like a true parent of a mediocre public school player. Chin up, buttercup. There is always baseball.

Hillarious that all these 2020 holdbacks that go to MIAA schools that aren't committed now have to wait til their Jr. Year to be able to pound their chest on Ty Xanders twitter account. The holdback game is the scourge of youth lacrosse and hopefully the ER rule change puts an end to it.

Even more hilarious are the ones who were held back in 7th for "academic reasons" and have yet to get an offer from anyone.

Not everyone will get an offer no matter if you reclass.

Well if it was for Academic reasons they will benefit from being held back. And ask yourself a question " what does it say about me if I am happy when a child is harmed from his parents choice?" My point being you should insure your anger is pointing at the correct person in these cases not the child. They are kids and should never have to read or feel any judgement from strange adults on a anonymous site or in person. People point out all the time that their is no money to be given out in lacrosse so why is your anger so high?

PLENTY OF MONEY IF YOU ARE WANTED - PLENTY

What's hilarious? Are they being more productive in school? Are they getting better grades? What parent in their right mind would want an 8th grader to get an offer from a college! Sounds like you are either envious, or for some reason really really like to worry about other kids. That's weird. Getting an offer Junior year sounds great. Again, you said hilarious, and I'm not even seeing anything you should be concerned with; I hope you aren't sitting around thinking there is some great contingency of people out there that are suffering, and somehow thinking you are getting amusement from it! Fake dreams. Get a life!!

Let's just let public school kids choose to play down a year. They dilute the talent anyway.

You obviously don't know the game. There are still many 19's out there that will be making commitments this Fall, so to think there is some great travesty out there with 20's is a false hope. You either are good enough, or you aren't. There are great placements Junior and Senior year at D1, D2, and D3. Relax, worry about yourself dude. As you look out the side and rear windows, there's something coming right at you out the front. Try to enjoy something real, my friend.

Actually baseball is a money sport. Most lacrosse players dont have the ability to make it in baseball, basketball or football at D1 level or beyond. That is why all this " grade based garbage" goes on now with the private school parents. They know little johnny cant make it without some kind of edge over other players same age.

Actually baseball is a money sport. Most lacrosse players dont have the ability to make it in baseball, basketball or football at D1 level or beyond. That is why all this " grade based garbage" goes on now with the private school parents. They know little johnny cant make it without some kind of edge over other players same age. [/quote]

If you think lacrosse is the only sport where kids reclass or are held back you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Every sport has it, especially football, more than lacrosse. And before you say lacrosse is the only one where it affects youth levels remember what forum you're on and think about all the football hotbeds where most kids play for their middle school. Stop with the complaining that this is a lacrosse / private school issue. It happens in all sports around the country.