US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Early Recruiting

To the IWLCA rep who's been on this site, explain to me how this is allowable? To advertise like this? Does the IWLCA condone this? Oh, wait, they do, BECAUSE IT ORIGINATED WITH DUKE'S WOMEN'S LACROSSE COACH!!! What a joke. Kudos to the IWLCA. . .job well done. . .not.

No one says you have to go. If you couldn't see this coming from a mile away...

My son, 2020 spoke to his coach today. Commitments are in place and there are loopholes all over. A joke!

Makes sense since they can watch and evaluate without feeling pressure to grab a kid before someone else does, that comes next year.

OP. 2020 boys commit. My point is that the IWLCA and US Lacrosse messed this up big time, at the bequest of Duke's Women and Penn's Men's coaches. Good thing neither of them have recruited early. . .oh, wait. . .

That is from Duke MEN'S Lacrosse....not women's....

True, but Lars Kiel, Duke women's asst coach liked the tweet. They - meaning all lax coaches - are in it together. The only way to interact with coaches is by paying to play at camps. The money trail leads straight to the college coach's pocket. Nicely done IWLCA, IMLCA and NCAA. The rich get richer….

And they have audacity to say this was done for the kids.

Disgusting. Not too opportunistic. Predatory.

Wink wink

And coincidentally a new coaches accreditation program is being rolled out by IWLCA to coincide with the new rules. For the benefit of the kids? Nothing could be further from the truth. A small group of college coaches trying to influence recruiting with uS Lacrosse helping them beat the drum. Sad.

Rather pay a few hundred to go see campus, get some training and looks and input from a college coach and his staff...Than pay thousands upon thousands to some club constantly. Play HS and go to college camp...Lot easier than the current garbage

You moaners club directors seeing your money pie go away???

Will be a massive Title IX Lawsuit coming. So much for equal opportunity. Calling it now

What about a kid sending grades to coaches they can't take a peak. Come on now, who is governing and policing this. Stinks for 2019 that was close to committing, worked their tale off the last 3 qts to get that 3.5 3.7 or 4.0 now they can't finalize things. But 2019's just have 4/5 months.. 2020's bought into the hype the last 3/4 years and are now deflated.. 2021, really you are worried don't be your not even in HS. What you've spent thousands to get this point, if your child is that good you won't need to worry and I think you will be fine.

As coaches have been saying come to my camp, enjoy those days do 3/4 tournaments and 2 school camps. Or better yet the conferences will have camps,with the coaches there. Do those.

The only one really hurting are the schools who have big 2020 commits. ND Duke IVY's will be poaching hard. By 2020 Stanford UCONN Fordham Columbia Arizona and Arizona St FSU Bama Clemson will switch from club to D1 programs, more schools to poach players.

You really think all those schools are switching to D1. Is that wishful thinking or is it based on some facts?

Actually, I thought the Title IX angle was bogus, but it could have some merit (note, I'm not an attorney). It provides: Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (b) scheduling of games and practice times; (c) travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athletes.

And: Under Title IX there are no sport exclusions or exceptions. Individual participation opportunities (number of student-athletes participating rather than number of sports) in all men's and women's sports are counted in determining whether an institution meets Title IX participation standards. The basic philosophical underpinning of Title IX is that there cannot be an economic justification for discrimination. The institution cannot maintain that there are revenue productions or other considerations that mandate that certain sports receive better treatment or participation opportunities than other sports.

So recruitment of PSAs and mandate that all sports must be treated equally. . .anyone out there an attorney?

After the top 10 teams the sport is unwatchable. Not nearly enough talent that's why a top D2 or D3 team would be ranked in the top 40 of D1 its brutal. Yes - more big schools are coming on board so it reinforces the fact that everyone that wants to find a place to play can in college. Watch some games on TV and except for the goal scorers most all of our kids are interchangeable on these teams. I watch and im shocked at how bad the product is and im also shocked that my daughter could hang with lots of the girls and as a realist I know my daughters game is quite flawed

Did any see Duke's coach Kimel's video IWLCA posted about communication rules? It's on IWLCA twitter page...
If anyone watches it let me know what you think. Can the club coach relay to you what the college said if it's NOT about recruiting?

RE: US Lacrosse......Tried registering my daughters for Lax for Cure Tournament. They require US Lacrosse membership. I sent an email to them explaining that I will not have daughters members of US Lacrosse since they are part and parcel of this dumb legislation. Still waiting for a reply. US Lacrosse is another org with its hand out taking money and providing ZERO for the players. Maybe we as consumers should do something about things and not just complain.

Not irrelevant. Coaches are still allowed to attend, just no communication. Trust me, they will still be on the sidelines because there will still be contact. It will all just be behind the scenes now.

<eye roll>

If anyone has the contact us info for the Nike Elite 120 girl's event this summer, would you please reply with it?
Thank You

NCAA can set rules that college coaches follow but they don't have any enforcement rights on what a club or HS coach communicates to a player right? Therefore one would think club coach can tell the player of the conversation. She said in video more clarification coming but it would seem that was is not OK is to communicate any type of offer - scholarship, admissions help, spot on team...

I stopped supporting US Lacrosse years ago, useless crooks. They only support their own very limited agenda. They should have required age verification years ago but basically ignored the issue. You can just make up a number when they require one.

USL allows for some back end system integration to check valid (in force) numbers, so that may not always be true.

C

Will it go like that? I don't know but it's a very possible scenario that has really fixed nothing but early social media postings. Maybe I'm just cynical. . .[/quote]Will be a massive Title IX Lawsuit coming. So much for equal opportunity. Calling it now
[/quote]

Actually, I thought the Title IX angle was bogus, but it could have some merit (note, I'm not an attorney). It provides: Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (b) scheduling of games and practice times; (c) travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athletes.

And: Under Title IX there are no sport exclusions or exceptions. Individual participation opportunities (number of student-athletes participating rather than number of sports) in all men's and women's sports are counted in determining whether an institution meets Title IX participation standards. The basic philosophical underpinning of Title IX is that there cannot be an economic justification for discrimination. The institution cannot maintain that there are revenue productions or other considerations that mandate that certain sports receive better treatment or participation opportunities than other sports.

So recruitment of PSAs and mandate that all sports must be treated equally. . .anyone out there an attorney? [/quote]

I'm an attorney but certainly don't specialize in Title IX. Regardless: the lacrosse rules apply equally to male and female recruits, so what complaint can there be about different treatment? There is none.

I think ambiguous wording in the new rule is to blame. The rule states that it applies to "Women's Basketball and Lacrosse", which could fairly be interpreted to mean "Women's basketball and Women's Lacrosse". However, I'm pretty sure they intended it to apply to "Women's Basketball and Men's and Women's Lacrosse". The multiple references to "his or her" support this (at least until the NCAA starts letting men who think they are women start playing women's basketball and women's lacrosse - how long until that happens is anyone's guess). Not sure why they didn't say "Lacrosse and Women's Basketball" - same number of words but without the ambiguity.

What about the difference between men's and women's basketball? Wrong forum, but it's not clear to me that women have a complaint. There is plenty of support for the proposition that the rules actually benefit women. It would be the men who might complain.

Any end in sight for this wailing and crying over an NCAA rule that is signed and done?

Title IX has been allowed to be exploited so beyond its original intent that it is anyone's guess as to how a party can use it to argue just about anything related to college in general, and college sports specifically!

when are college football and basketball coaches men allowed to talk to PSA. i know the answer it it is way before their junior year of high school. so title ix might have some legs here. also college basketball men have long been known to talk to AAU coaches about PSA. AAU is like club coaches. does this have legs or am i just reaching here

Yes, that's how i heard it. What needs clarification to me is CAN the club coach tell the PSA about their conversation? For example - susan is not what we're looking for, susan is at the top of our list ...etc so the parents and kids know if they should keep attending the same prospect days instead of throwing money away. You should know if you are on a coaches radar or not.

It seems to be the 2020/21 crowd doing most of the whining because mommy and daddy now have to wait a few extra months before they can start bragging on FB about
their little superstar committing to a school.

Might be the truest post on this site! 8th an d9th graders cant even decide what clothes to wear let alone picking a college. Mom and Dad feel the need to boast about the verbal just like they boast about their trips to MD every weekend of the summer. The only one that got hurt in this process is parents egos!!

New rule levels the field for the schools and will ensure the most deserving kids get the most cash and the kids will actually know what a HS class and an SAT is and might even have an idea on a major or career as opposed to mom and dad who just want a pro lax player

Same attorney here: what's the harm to a 9th grade girl for having to wait to talk to a lacrosse coach, even if a 9th grade boy can freely talk to a football coach? The same number of women lacrosse players will eventually play on the team even if there is a delay in filling the spots. Same with a club coach as go between: it's just a delay, not a reduction in the number of female student athletes that will eventually play for the team.

I don't see any harm to any lacrosse player. No one promised you that if you sent your child to all of the ID camps and prospect camps that he or she would receive a verbal commitment. You were promised absolutely nothing anyway, and now you will receive absolutely nothing until Sept 1 of junior year.

Reminds me of that Native American in the commercial with the tear running down his cheek because of the litter. Try accepting what you can't control and moving on to something different.

You would love to believe that, wouldn't you dad who's son had no interest now, and still won't 2 years from now. My son already spoke with his coach, yes he answered the phone and said nothing will change. In addition, my son's phone will be ringing off the hook come the first day of Jr. year while yours......? This is all very dumb!

Um, better me careful there. My son actually IS committed, a 2020, and no contact is allowed. Everything's still in place as we knew ahead of time it would be. Our club coach confirmed immediately after the rule went into effect as he had spoken with the coach just prior to the vote on Friday (in which the NCAA screwed the pooch and made it immediate). If you're son is speaking with his coach, you're in violation of NCAA new regulations. But I have a feeling you're lying. So, which is it?

No lying here. Spoke to Coach today. It was agreed that there will be no further contact till Jr year, but an email schedule was set up where we will send grades etc. Maybe your sons coach didn't really want to solidify the commitment? No rule is official until it is adopted 4/26 in case you didn't know.

I tend to think that although there may be some coaches at events for 2021/2020 kid this summer, attendance will be down for sure. Because it just doesnt really matter if they see a kid that plays well this summer. (Because with no contact, unless your kid looks like a stud the summer before their junior year, it won't matter). This is a bitter pill for some to swallow, especially the directors of all of these "exclusive recruiting" events. Their cash cow is coming to an end very quickly.
My suggestion, take the money you would have spent on those events and use it to hire a tutor, get SAT prep halo and make sure you kid is taking as many Honors/AP courses as they can handle. With some of their free time, they can also do some type of community service, so leading into their Junior year they will be a complete package! Heck, with a little hard work they might even get into college on their own!!!
I really don't understand why anyone is upset about this, if a kid is really that great right now (as a 8th or 9th grader) they will still be great as a junior, why all the fuss?

I guess your son's future coach is really not interested in keeping his current job and therefore will not have to worry about honoring your verbal. This looks like it's going to be the first test of the rules enforcement.

^^^ Not very good at arguing a point - how does your comment contradict anything that was posted? Answer: It doesn't! Rather, you resorted to a vaguely disguised ad hominem attack, the typical MO of someone who can't make a real argument.

You are just flat out wrong about the rule being adopted as of 4/26. Do you read at all? Effective immediately after it was passed.