BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums PENNSYLVANIA LACROSSE PENNSYLVANIA FORUM Boys 2023

Well said, however, those words don't cover up the fact that without those two, the team would be a successful club. But they have them and they are. With that being said, that doesn't mean that they are still better than Lax Black because they beat them two years ago. It would be a good game for sure, but I think Lax Black is a better team. My son's team played both teams last summer (oh, and 2 summers ago beat Lax Black by 6). Lax Black was the better team of the two last season. That's doesn't mean they will always be, but unlike BL parents, I have a point of reference that you don't.

You need to get out of Pennsyltucky before you can claim to be better than everyone else.

I can let the reference to Pennsyltucky slide. Anyone who knows anything about the main line, horse country and Northern Delaware knows there's nothing "tucky" about us. Assuming you weren't plucked off the top of some "mountain" in the Berkshires let's call it a draw at the very least. You are right in saying that exceptional players elevate teams, but you're missing the bigger point. My son, for example, is not the middie or pole people are referring to so let's call him one of the supporting cast. How does he support? In a contest for a ground ball, you'd want to put your money on him. Even though he is one of the smaller middies, it's not unusual to see him bend kids twice his size in half with legal hits. You can also count on him for at least one goal per game. Now, populate your entire team with kids like him as BL has done and they win. Add two power players and you begin to dominate. Keep an eye on them.

Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional

He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.

BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.

We have played BL several times, lost every time except for once we almost won but some boneheaded decisions by both coaches and players resulted in an overtime loss. The best kid on the team is the lefty pole. Once they move that player to attack where he belongs he will be the best player on the team and the field. I think they have 4-5 exceptional players but at this point does it really matter? Will be interesting to see how the summer plays out but remember what I said about the standout player.

You are both idiots....

Two

I was referring to the fastest kid on your team or at least he looks like it to me that plays middie and attack. He is left handed and SHORT pole. I just saw him again at a Box Tourney...everyone else looks like they are in quick sand...to me he was clearly the best kid on BL...maybe he doesn't play on field team for you guys.

Agreed. Idiots often fall in love with their own opinions as fact. From what I've observed, the average players aren't on the club teams (even your son's team, guy who called my kid average). Average lacrosse players stick to their community teams and that does it for them. They don't play much outside of practice or the games and they do alright, but they are average. Put them up against most club players and you'll have a different perspective on what average is. Maybe your sons team is the anomaly that has mostly casual lacrosse players on it?

Where I'm from, everyone plays club. Tons of average kids.

I would disagree. We have clubs competing at a high level. Some are better in high school some are better at the youth ranks but the following are all competitive. NXT, Mesa, Freedom, Brotherly Love, Triple H, and Dukes. Sure MD and LI has elite teams as well but really only 3-4 from each of the two geographies. I can speak to 2023 and 2024 and there really is only 2-3 clubs that are elite from each area. I know of really only 3-4 from LI and 2-3 from MD.

On a national high school level we simply don't get enough respect and it really is just a "geography reputation" factor. When schools like Salesanium, Garnet Valley, and Conestoga lose by a goal to Malvern Prep or Sallies does well againsts the #1 in the country. How do these schools not get nationally ranked higher than the bottom half of the MIAA and NY schools. Whether it is Dox Aitken, Matt Rambo, Jordan Wolf, Ryan Sankey, Mike Sowers, Ryan Mcnulty, Matt Moore to name just a few they are all from Philly and all elite. Does the game have more of a footprint in MD and LI asbsolutelty but this area has a plenty of talent.

There is some truth to that; however, with the exception of BL, there are probably 6-7 teams from LI alone (Both 91, Express A & B, S2S, Igloo and Leg a sea off of the top of my head) that will beat all of those teams you mentioned and most will be blowouts. There is talent, no doubt, but the playing field is not even close to level. Geographical reputation is all in your head. Last year, the top 20 nationally ranked teams hailed from 6-7 different states. Good teams get respect regardless of geography.

BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.

Actually, the top 25 came from 13 different states:
Md (2)
Ct (2)
DC (1)
NY (8)
Ma (2)
NJ (1)
In (1)
Ontario (1)
Va (1)
Pa (2)
NH (1)
Co (1)
Ca (1)

Spread throughout the country. No geographical bias present.

Wait a minute what rankings are you citing? Is it this years?

You could make the same point about Brotherly Love's 2024 Team as well. If you take the coach's son (I think #10) and the goalie off the team they are a B Team. Great goalie and the kid at attack either scores the goal or assists on 90% of their points. Don't see how this team was picked to participate in the Elite Eight. C'mon BL you know that I am speaking the truth...Stole the goalie from another club and without #10 you stink.

2016 final ranking. Those are the states (districts and provinces) with teams that were ranked in the top 25 nationally and how many teams from each.

If I didn't know the BL kids better, I'd swear that one of them stole your lunch money. You sure do put a lot of energy into hating them.

I agree with your depth of talent and I do think that the talent is spread over more club teams thus resulting in a dilution factor for LI and MD. The top talent is the top talent meaning the top 20 kids from each of the three areas for example are all going to be comparable...there is a ceiling of ability no matter where you come from. This is why Philly has top notch players in Collegiate ranks the top 20 are the top 20 but then there is a bigger fall off for us. Now I will concede that both LI and MD after the top 20 kids have much more parity thus reconciling to the point about depth of talent.

I still disagree about the National Rankings. Yes they make a token effort to include disparate geographical areas; however, teams from MIAA and NY Leagues are routinely included in the top 20 simply because of where they hail from geographically and they "fill out" the rankings with those teams.

I will give you two examples. Malvern Prep out of Philly was the #1 ranked team in the country a couple of seasons ago and Avon Grove which had a stacked team loses to them in overtime by a single goal and never even gets into the top 20?? How do you lose to the #1 Team and not even get a mention?? Then Malvern Prep goes on and beats a lot of MD and NY teams handily that REMAIN in the top 20? If an MIAA or NY team were to lose to Malvern by a single goal that year they would have shot up in the rankings.

Second example Salesanium which is a Delaware school but has a ton of Philly talent loses to the #1 School in the Country last year Hill School, by a score of 10-9. How to they not appear in the National Rankings?

Fair enough but answer me this am I right or wrong in my assessment of their 2024 team? Who is their third best player.

If I didn't know the BL kids better, I'd swear that one of them stole your lunch money. You sure do put a lot of energy into hating them.

I was referring to IL UA Warrior etc
You do have to concede if you lose to the #1 Team in the country by a single goal you should be in the top 20 the following week. It should be what happens on the field a lot of these teams s don't even play each other

Fair enough but answer me this am I right or wrong in my assessment of their 2024 team? Who is their third best player.

I was referring to IL UA Warrior etc
You do have to concede if you lose to the #1 Team in the country by a single goal you should be in the top 20 the following week. It should be what happens on the field a lot of these teams s don't even play each other

I was referring to IL UA Warrior etc
You do have to concede if you lose to the #1 Team in the country by a single goal you should be in the top 20 the following week. It should be what happens on the field a lot of these teams s don't even play each other

Salesanium is a very good team. They finished 2016 ranked #63 in the country. They lost to Hill Academy who finished #10. They also lost to Malverne at #17 and Culver at #33. All 3 losses were to quality teams. The problem is that their wins didn't come against highly ranked opponents. Their best win was against Easton Area, and they finished the season ay #82. In order to break into the top 25 they need to play more non-league games against top ranked opponents. That goes with any real ranking system.

Your first example is a lot more irrelevant. Yes, in 2014 Avon Grove lost an early season game to Malverne in OT. And yes, Malverne finished the season #2 behind only Boys Latin. The problem is that they lost their next two games to Central Bucks East and Bishop Shanahan... not exactly dominant programs. Not even ranked in the top 500. A team needs to put together a body of work; they can't be judged on a single lucky game.

Lets see BL play up at least one grade if not 2 against local clubs like another program had done that were competing with top teams. Then we consider how good they are. At the younger ages having bigger stronger kids can get you by, but not against older teams.