|
Forums20
Topics3,799
Posts399,683
Members2,638
| |
Most Online62,980
Feb 6th, 2020
|
|
 Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Lets see BL play up at least one grade if not 2 against local clubs like another program had done that were competing with top teams. Then we consider how good they are. At the younger ages having bigger stronger kids can get you by, but not against older teams. Man, what's your deal? Why does it seem like you have such an ax to grind with BL? Why does it matter to you that some of us think BL is actually pretty good (even compared to the good teams)? What's the point of your mission to "set the record straight"? I don't get you. You're like an annoying gnat that won't go away. I'm sorry, that wasn't nice, but come on, its freaking tedious fact checking you all the time.
|
Like
 Reply
 Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I agree with your depth of talent and I do think that the talent is spread over more club teams thus resulting in a dilution factor for LI and MD. The top talent is the top talent meaning the top 20 kids from each of the three areas for example are all going to be comparable...there is a ceiling of ability no matter where you come from. This is why Philly has top notch players in Collegiate ranks the top 20 are the top 20 but then there is a bigger fall off for us. Now I will concede that both LI and MD after the top 20 kids have much more parity thus reconciling to the point about depth of talent.
I still disagree about the National Rankings. Yes they make a token effort to include disparate geographical areas; however, teams from MIAA and NY Leagues are routinely included in the top 20 simply because of where they hail from geographically and they "fill out" the rankings with those teams.
I will give you two examples. Malvern Prep out of Philly was the #1 ranked team in the country a couple of seasons ago and Avon Grove which had a stacked team loses to them in overtime by a single goal and never even gets into the top 20?? How do you lose to the #1 Team and not even get a mention?? Then Malvern Prep goes on and beats a lot of MD and NY teams handily that REMAIN in the top 20? If an MIAA or NY team were to lose to Malvern by a single goal that year they would have shot up in the rankings.
Second example Salesanium which is a Delaware school but has a ton of Philly talent loses to the #1 School in the Country last year Hill School, by a score of 10-9. How to they not appear in the National Rankings? Salesanium is a very good team. They finished 2016 ranked #63 in the country. They lost to Hill Academy who finished #10. They also lost to Malverne at #17 and Culver at #33. All 3 losses were to quality teams. The problem is that their wins didn't come against highly ranked opponents. Their best win was against Easton Area, and they finished the season ay #82. In order to break into the top 25 they need to play more non-league games against top ranked opponents. That goes with any real ranking system. Your first example is a lot more irrelevant. Yes, in 2014 Avon Grove lost an early season game to Malverne in OT. And yes, Malverne finished the season #2 behind only Boys Latin. The problem is that they lost their next two games to Central Bucks East and Bishop Shanahan... not exactly dominant programs. Not even ranked in the top 500. A team needs to put together a body of work; they can't be judged on a single lucky game. There's not a ton of movement nationally in the first few weeks of any season. Can't see how a team can jump into the top 20 by losing to anyone. Win and maybe there's an argument. But losing, even in overtime, isn't going to do it. I think the problem is your citing laxpower and I am citing UA/IL I don't think laxpower is the standard although their data seems much more objective and scientific. To me a national ranking that changes every week should oscillate with the weekly results
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I agree with your depth of talent and I do think that the talent is spread over more club teams thus resulting in a dilution factor for LI and MD. The top talent is the top talent meaning the top 20 kids from each of the three areas for example are all going to be comparable...there is a ceiling of ability no matter where you come from. This is why Philly has top notch players in Collegiate ranks the top 20 are the top 20 but then there is a bigger fall off for us. Now I will concede that both LI and MD after the top 20 kids have much more parity thus reconciling to the point about depth of talent.
I still disagree about the National Rankings. Yes they make a token effort to include disparate geographical areas; however, teams from MIAA and NY Leagues are routinely included in the top 20 simply because of where they hail from geographically and they "fill out" the rankings with those teams.
I will give you two examples. Malvern Prep out of Philly was the #1 ranked team in the country a couple of seasons ago and Avon Grove which had a stacked team loses to them in overtime by a single goal and never even gets into the top 20?? How do you lose to the #1 Team and not even get a mention?? Then Malvern Prep goes on and beats a lot of MD and NY teams handily that REMAIN in the top 20? If an MIAA or NY team were to lose to Malvern by a single goal that year they would have shot up in the rankings.
Second example Salesanium which is a Delaware school but has a ton of Philly talent loses to the #1 School in the Country last year Hill School, by a score of 10-9. How to they not appear in the National Rankings?
Salesanium is a very good team. They finished 2016 ranked #63 in the country. They lost to Hill Academy who finished #10. They also lost to Malverne at #17 and Culver at #33. All 3 losses were to quality teams. The problem is that their wins didn't come against highly ranked opponents. Their best win was against Easton Area, and they finished the season ay #82. In order to break into the top 25 they need to play more non-league games against top ranked opponents. That goes with any real ranking system.
Your first example is a lot more irrelevant. Yes, in 2014 Avon Grove lost an early season game to Malverne in OT. And yes, Malverne finished the season #2 behind only Boys Latin. The problem is that they lost their next two games to Central Bucks East and Bishop Shanahan... not exactly dominant programs. Not even ranked in the top 500. A team needs to put together a body of work; they can't be judged on a single lucky game. There's not a ton of movement nationally in the first few weeks of any season. Can't see how a team can jump into the top 20 by losing to anyone. Win and maybe there's an argument. But losing, even in overtime, isn't going to do it. I think the problem is your citing laxpower and I am citing UA/IL I don't think laxpower is the standard although their data seems much more objective and scientific. To me a national ranking that changes every week should oscillate with the weekly results Now your really stretching it. If anything, playing that game should have hurt Malverne a heck of a lot more than helping an otherwise mediocre AG team. You'll never sell me on the results of one game. There is no way that the Avon Grove team was, at any time, a top 20, or even 50, team at any point in the season.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I could say the same about the bottom half of the top teams there were teams on the list with 4-5 losses give me a break they are there by reputation alone and that includes Haverford
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I could say the same about the bottom half of the top teams there were teams on the list with 4-5 losses give me a break they are there by reputation alone and that includes Haverford We'all have to agree to disagree. Bishop Shanahan? C'mon.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Bishop Shanahan "not exactly a dominant program", Who and where are you from!?!? They have made it to the District 1 Final or Semi's the last 3 years!!!
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
He's right. The context of the conversation was from a National Ranking. Bishop Shanahan is an excellent high school program for the Philly area but let's get real. They are not a National Caliber Team that should be ranked in the top 20 in high school lacrosse.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Exactly. Teans have to get out of their comfort zones and challenge themselves to be credible contenders. Most area coaches are much more realistic than you are. They're happy with regional success.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Can anyone give me some thoughts about the Dukes national team. My kid was thinking about trying out at one of their mini camps
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Dukes national 2023 is a very good team. Continually picking up top talent from various regions . Here is my personal opinion. The 3 hour mini camps for 60 dollars is a bargain regardless of whether or not you decide to play. They are fast paced, high intensity workouts. Definitely worth checking out
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Let me guess you are the one collecting the 60 dollars and running the camp. Self promoting...very obvious....smooth operator....NOT.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
No. I'm simply a dad , who thinks 20 dollars per hour for high level clinic is a bargain. Just so happens that the 2023 happens to be very good. Losing to the bandits by 1 goal in December. Those are pretty much the facts
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I think it has be rehashed several times, but the 3 key players on that Dukes team were actually 2022's....they are not a bad team, but at 23 the Bandits would beat them by at least 10. I watched 2 of there 3 games at NXT and they are a solid team, very good defense, but they got almost nothing from the attack..
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
The question was "is it worth going to a mini camp?" And my answer was for 60 bucks. What's the downside
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I think it has be rehashed several times, but the 3 key players on that Dukes team were actually 2022's....they are not a bad team, but at 23 the Bandits would beat them by at least 10. I watched 2 of there 3 games at NXT and they are a solid team, very good defense, but they got almost nothing from the attack.. The Dukes National 2023/ Freedom Coach son plays attack and he is the best player on the 2023 team.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
All the best players/athletes play midfield at younger ages, not attack, he is wasting his time.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Why is he wasting his time?
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Because people like to say stupid things. And the coaches son is not anywhere near the best player on that team....
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Because people like to say stupid things. And the coaches son is not anywhere near the best player on that team.... As much as the Dukes National 2023/ Freedom Coach son plays is an indication that he is by far the best player on that 2023 team and a top wrestler in PA to boot.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
In my humble opinion. If your child is looking for additional lacrosse away from your primary team, than dukes nationals is worth checking out. I'm not promoting, it's one mans opinion . Kids from Maryland, Virginia, ny, pa, Carolina, etc. for many reasons. Kids are not fortunate enough to be part of a program that plays 12 months a year and this a great alternative. It's that simple. They do some great events and camps at various college campuses and keep it fun. But competetive.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Because people like to say stupid things. And the coaches son is not anywhere near the best player on that team.... As much as the Dukes National 2023/ Freedom Coach son plays is an indication that he is by far the best player on that 2023 team and a top wrestler in PA to boot. LOL
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
They use a depth chart, so that should solve any arguments.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Because people like to say stupid things. And the coaches son is not anywhere near the best player on that team.... Who is the best? Righty attackman?
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Because people like to say stupid things. And the coaches son is not anywhere near the best player on that team.... Who is the best? Righty attackman? The Big Defenseman, but Dukes needs some help to beat BL
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Created by the three coaches who all have sons on the teams...what a joke
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Yes they have 1-2 standout poles, and some solid middies...the attack seemed non-existent
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Ok jerk off. Look at 91 bandits, crush. Etc. spallna s kids. What's your point. Maybe they wanted to get away from negative a-holes like you
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Created by the three coaches who all have sons on the teams...what a joke Right why would you want 3 former college players all at different positions with 50+ years of HS and college coaching experience combined coaching your kid? Better to have a college sophomore home for the summer coaching.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Yes they have 1-2 standout poles, and some solid middies...the attack seemed non-existent Based on a local fall tournament that only local players from the team played in
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Yes they have 1-2 standout poles, and some solid middies...the attack seemed non-existent Well said, look what happened in the Championship game against the Bandits in Florida the Dukes 2023 attack non-existent. They can't even beat BL.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Yes they have 1-2 standout poles, and some solid middies...the attack seemed non-existent Well said, look what happened in the Championship game against the Bandits in Florida the Dukes 2023 attack non-existent. They can't even beat BL. Or 4 of the 5 scored by the attack in the finals, but it's more fun to make up stuff
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Let me guess the coaches kids play attack... struck a nerve there
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Spring League starts next weekend. In Pool 1 we have:
Sons
Tri-State
Uprising
Freedom
In pool 2 we have:
Team 11
NXT
RR
Black Storm
This Sunday is NXT vs. Team 11 and Team 11 vs. Black Storm. Predictions for this weekend and for the overall.
Pool 1, I say Freedom, Pool 2, Rough Riders, this weekend, Team 11 in the first game, Black Storm in the 2nd.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Did they play this weekend? There are no scores posted on Tourney Machine
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
All the best players/athletes play midfield at younger ages, not attack, he is wasting his time. Could be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on here. True some athletes play middie, but a lot of the times at this age the middies are kids who can run up and down the field with ok stick skills. They never have the stick skills or IQ of a good attackman. And my kid plays middie. Complete tools on this thread
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Just to comment about dukes depth chart heard from friend who's kid played on dukes even though u make it above travel line the organization brings in outside players not on the team and gives them lots of playing time which ultimately cuts down on ur kids playing time and when the next depth chart comes out those kids are nowhere to be found, don't know if true but sounds like pretty lousy thing to do to kids that work hard to make it to tournament let alone the expenses involved...
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Did they play this weekend? There are no scores posted on Tourney Machine No games start this upcoming weekend. Only 2 games at the 2023 level that I saw. No BL, No Mesa....probbably 2 best clubs at this age not in it.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Just to comment about dukes depth chart heard from friend who's kid played on dukes even though u make it above travel line the organization brings in outside players not on the team and gives them lots of playing time which ultimately cuts down on ur kids playing time and when the next depth chart comes out those kids are nowhere to be found, don't know if true but sounds like pretty lousy thing to do to kids that work hard to make it to tournament let alone the expenses involved... As a FORMER Duke's Nationals dad this is accurate. If you're looking for yet another outlet to drain your wallet, you belong there. Don't get me wrong, great players and its a good time but another helmet, uniform, travel (think LI, CT, MD, upstate NY) wore us down. They put together great events for the boys and its fun for a while but it wears off after spending an additional $2k on LAX for a team that will bring in a ringer at a moments notice to win some scrub tourney... Final note: Know all those annoying LI parents you see at all the tourneys? Yeah. They're on your side now wearing your team's colors. Sit away. Far, far away.
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
How did the Mesa tournament go this past weekend?
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Did they play this weekend? There are no scores posted on Tourney Machine No games start this upcoming weekend. Only 2 games at the 2023 level that I saw. No BL, No Mesa....probbably 2 best clubs at this age not in it. Mesa best in age 2023? Got spanked this past Saturday... 0-3
|
|
Like
Reply
Quote
|
|
|
Moderated by A1Laxer, Annoy., baldbear, BiggLax, BOTC_EVENTS, botc_ne, clax422, CP@BOTC, cp_botc, David20, Gremelin, hatimd80, JimSection1, Ladylaxer2609, Laxers412, LaxMomma, Liam Kassl, LILax15, MomOf6, Team BOTC, The Hop, TheBackOfTheCage, Thirdy@BOTC, TM@BOTC |
|
