BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) WSYL NEW RULES

The tournament lost alll credibility last year when they pulled the musical birthdate debacle. Down right embarrassment done to get certain kids to make age cut off. True teams had no chance playing against teams full of kids just squeaking by age cutoff. Might be better now, but left a bad impression on the brand. But then again there is not much ethics in youth lacrosse in general.

Fact of the matter is all players had the opportunity to play if they made the age cutoff. ..all...that means even yours. Sounds like yours didn't make the cutoff and now you are hating on those who did and succeeded. Why was the winning team able to adjust to the rules and not everyone else? Well that's just it, everyone else had the opportunity and either added players to their team, which many did, or they didn't. You can't cry foul. Those were the rules and the players played by them. They were the best in tnmt. Case closed.

Rules were manipulated, everyone knows it. A joke! Teams were created choosing mostly older players close to a unrealistic cutoff. Those same kids are not anything special when they play on their real team. Sad for the kids who missed out. It is supposed to be a team event, not an all star event. FOUL!!

Says you! Oh it's rigged? Ok Trump...until the rules favor you then it's not rigged?? Who missed out?? The holdbacks?? If you met the age cutoff you could play in the age-based tournament. If you didn't, so sorry for your little Johnny.

All the changes in the first 2 years were not good and odd, but now they have it straight and are going with the birthdate date cutoff that USL uses. Makes a lot of sense now.

Makes a lot of sense? Let's use an age cutoff that no team in the country uses and hold it in an area of the country where on only 1 B level team can convienintly attend. Then lots of other B teams can fly in along with 2 A teams who have more dollars than sense and play. What a great tournament!

Think about what you wrote- only B teams can attend. Are they possibly B teams because they are younger than the kids playing on the A teams?

Look no one is forcing you to go. Don't want to go- so be it- but the experience is one that your kid won't have anywhere else. Like a previous poster stated- like a fantasy camp for older guys. The kids had a blast, and in no other tourney will get radio interviews, tv exposure and treated like a pro. You don't think it's for you and yours- so be it. There will be others that will enjoy the experience without you. Worth every penny to see my kid smile that whole time!

Hopefully they keep it in line with USL age guidelines. I dont have much faith tho as many top clubs now are grade base and have older kids,

Silly event, weak competition, $$$

It's B teams because real A teams won't kick 3 dedicated kids off their team for a tournament because of some arbitrary rule and pay too much for weak competition.

So now the US Lacrosse age limits are an "arbitrary rule". That is just crazy. This will be the only tourney without holdbacks and you dismiss that fact.

Are you saying B teams bc they don't have three hold backs? Loser

It's arbitrary because it changes year to year and does not follow what the majority of the teams use.

Also USL is a joke. They recommend combining 2 grade years in 1 team as the general rule. How is that any better?

No they are B teams because they lose to the 2 A teams that make the finals by 10 goals. Look at the scores from last year.

I can't for the life of me figure out why the MD, PA and MA teams can't put an aged based team together for this tournament. Can someone please explain why?

HOLDBACKS !!!that's why.

The prep schools have many many kids heldback, Grade base teams allowed these prefisrt/reclass children to play down as defined by USL age guidelines/ The teams in these three states have many of these players playing down.The best teams in these states are loaded with these holdback/prefirst players. These top teams would not be that good without these heldback players and for sure are not giving them up. It is a very simple why.

We are a top 5 MD team and have 3 or 4 players born between July 2003 and the Sept. cutoff which matches the cutoff for our schools. I suppose these kids are holdbacks, but the team decided not to go without them.

This is a gross exaggeration. It seems you guys up north have this idea that there are these hordes of kids in pre-first. Pre-first classes exist in only a handful of schools that have boys: BL, SP, McD, Gilman and are around 8-10 kids. McD and SP have girls in the pre-first classes, too. Are all these kids going on to play lacrosse and dominate these clubs? No! Your argument is ridiculous and impossible. Are there a couple on each team? Yes. Do a handful of boys choose to reclass at 9th grade? Yes. Do 99% of us wish this were not allowed? Yes! But this is not a big issue at 7th grade.

Any MD teams opting not to go for WSYL are doing so because they don't want to leave behind the 1-2 kids who don't make the age requirement. Or because they don't see the value if flying to Denver to play a tournament when you're in 7th grade. Think about it. It's cost prohibitive for most people and there is great competition within driving distance.

If the 1 - 2 kids that can't play also happen to be the best players on the team, it might be another reason not to go without them!!

Having attended tourneys down in MD and DE and watched every MD and PA team we played (EG, Looneys) line up last year for the starting faceoffs with 6+ boys over 6' on the field for a 2021 team (7th graders at the time!), I question the whole 1 - 2 holdback players per team as the norm!

I'm guessing closer to 4-5 holdbacks

The sooner youth lacrosse goes to calendar year teams, the better it will be for everyone.

Looneys 2021 6 footers? I'm sure they had their handful of summer 02 birthdays, but not an exceptionally big team. I don't recall any 6 footers. Their 2020 teams both had around that many 6 foot plus kids. You either saw one of those teams or making stuff up

Never going to make everyone happy. Contrary to what some people seem to think on here, this is supposed to be fun for the KIDS . So that means they should be playing wiith their friends which in all likelihood are kids in their grade. No mater how you slice it you will have kids that benefit from the age cutoff and others that will be younger and hurt by it (in theory )Just keep it consistent

Every other sport does it & it is working out great -- why not youth lacrosse??

I disagree. I really don't care at all about holdback/reclassed kids. My kid is NOT a holdback, but I'd rather have him play against the kids that he will play against in middle school and high school. Does a 19 yr old HS senior get booted off of the team? No. What about a 13 year old 7th grader or 14 year 8th grader? No and no. It's not about silly youth tournaments. It's about preparing them for JV, Varsity and possibly beyond.

My 2021 son on his 2021 team was playing the Looneys - the boys I am talking about were taller than most of the refs and their own coaches! Parents of other games walking by asked what age group was playing, and laughed at how ridiculous it was when they heard it was 2021 based upon the boys on the field. It was so obvious that it was downright pathetic!

Your missing the point. In High School everyone is fair game no matter what age. But in 8th grade and down, the difference a year (or 2 in Md, PA & MA cases) makes can be dramatic. If it is age based - it is fair for everyone. If it is grade based - it is not fair for everyone.

Sorry. That team was average to below average in size for 2021 last summer. Can't speak to whether they added bigger kids this year but you are either confusing another team or making stuff up

Sure - because as a parent from LI, I would have reason to make stuff up about that team! Only played three games that day, and no one else we played wore unis that had orange, so no!

Under an aged based system, you would be permitted to have your son play up if you wished him to play against older boys who you believe will be his opponents on JV and Varsity. It would be your choice. But if you were like the majority of parents, and thought it best that he play against kids his same age only, than you would be able to ensure that that happens. As it is now, parents have no choice. Their kids are forced to play against older kids whether they like it or not. And what makes it worse is there is a randomness to it. You never know the amount of older kids the opposition has until you get to the field.

And as someone else has said, age difference is diminished greatly once puberty starts to kick in. In most sports, including lacrosse, a freshman can play well against seniors. But a 9 year old against 12 year olds - good luck. Once the kids are 15 or so, age differences become far less determinative. But 14 or below, more or less, older kids have a huge innate advantage. Such advantage should not be forced on a kid.

Please don't make assumptions about how old kids are because of their size! It's not fair to the kids, the parents, or the teams. Most kids who reclass/holdback to so because they are small. Think about it! My son has a kid in his grade who is 12 and 5'11". He doesn't play lacrosse. But there are kids that grow early or are just big. If you really question the age, just ask. Ask the coach, ask a parent. Believe me, they will both be glad to clear the name of their team. Assuming the worst makes you bitter and the other team's reputation is damaged. Just stop, please.

Can't speak to your motivations but you are calling out a specific team of which I am familiar. So I am calling you out for being wrong. What tournament?

Blue Hen

. . . and to be fair, the team that won the 2021 bracket, Rising Sons, was'worse' size-wise than Looney's. Their G was so tall, his helmet reached above the cross bar! Not sure about Furious, but neither Rock nor iM3 were anywhere near as big as Looney's or Rising Sons. And let's be clear: height and size are one possible indicator of age, and that can be observed from afar, but when you also see them up close and notice they are well on their way to shaving every day, it is not just size that I am going on. That is also why the parents I noted above laughed at the idea that these were on-age 2021s - they could see these other things as well, especially when you watch from right on the sidelines.

ah yes if you are a Sr in HS there is an age requirement that has to be met.

This is a great quote!!!Most of the parents on the sidelines would feel better about the the other teams,parents and most important the integrity of the game our kids have come to enjoy if we know that it was a fair age based game. Please pass this along.

No one cares. The horse is way past dead. Please find something else to complain about.

Says someone who is part of the problem . . .

I am assuming after what Igloo has done in the fall they have to be the favorite?