BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2020

Another Baltimore 2020 off the board. Probably another reclassed kid. NY is the only state that has on age kids in the 2020 class that are committed. SAD

Not a reclass. Why even comment if you don't know?

So you say "probably another reclassed kid" although you have no idea. Then you say NY is the only state with on-age kids who have committed, although you have no idea if that's correct.

Even if you are correct, there are reclassed kids in basketball, football and many other sports. Colleges don't care about the age - they want the best kids in each class. You may not like it, but you are tilting at windmills.

Sorry to burst your bubble but today's commit not reclassed or held back

All 3 PA kids are of age and not Summer birthdays!!

Complete false argument, No one doubts that colleges want the best kids in their class for all sports. Who has ever said otherwise. But why is that a driver of the thousands of lacrosse players playing YOUTH lacrosse. Why does lacrosse have some special need to give these heldback kids a advantage at the Youth level?? Is college the reason we let select heldback 10 year old children play against 9 year old children?? Or 16 year old children play against 14 year old children??
Hockey , Soccer, Baseball , Basketball all go by age at youth level?? They have more participation and generally stronger programs in college than lacrosse. Is lacrosse something special??

AAU basketball just recently tried to have some grade based teams. It is a complete mess. Many top AAU basketball programs refuse to play the grade based teams. Of course we know why??
At least in AAU basketball the better programs know what is right and wrong.

Age based in Youth, and grade based in High School. Only way to do it.

I like age based in youth and grade based in HS... If not, how about grade based everywhere with thresholds? ie: 2020 player can be grade based with a birth date no earlier than 1/1/01. Thoughts? That clears up the late birthdays and any reclassed kids not to be exceedingly old.

You generally play against kids a year or so older or younger than you throughout your youth sports career. In HS and College you generally play against kids up to 3-4 years older or younger. This stupid loser argument of "holdbacks" is primarily and incessantly fueled by 7th and 8th grade club lacrosse parents who seem to forget that their kids have been playing in a two-year spread age group their entire lives, but for some reason it is now time to complain when some kids have developed more than others at this point in their lives. Most private schools do pre-k, most public don't. SO, as you leave the youth-based age groups with two-year spreads, and if you live in a very diverse public/private school community, that two-year age spread carries from youth sports (which you were already doing) into HS sports. Let's face it, there are very very few parents that convince a school to allow their kid to repeat as a teenager, and there are very very few parents that send their kids to private school, so they can add a pre-k year for athletic purposes. This is a loser debate. When you get out of school, you will compete for jobs against people with many more years and decades of experience, so get used to it. If you are good or great at something, someone will want you. If you are not good or great at something, than find something else. You know who could care less about this stupid argument - good lacrosse players. That is, until their parents whine about it so much that it becomes a reality in their own mind.

For the last friggin time, it used to be age based for youth and grade based for HS. Girls has always been grade based.

It changed 3 years ago because club/coaches wanted to have kids grouped by grade to make it easier for grade based comparisons, rightly or wrongly.

You may not like it, but that's what it is. NY dads complained to US Lacrosse, and now they are trying to put the horses back in the stable. They might succeed, they might not. Until then, just tell your kid to play and stop embarrassing them with your whining.

Well is it whining when the people gaming the system are gaining a tangible thing. The spots on these college teams have a space limit correct. So they are not gaining a meaningless youth game win. They are gaining a spot on a college roster. And these rosters have a limit. So this is the point of anger nothing else.

Word

Private schools typically suggest and offer pre-1st. Unless it is a national conspiracy among private schools to drive up early high school college lacrosse commitments that was collaborated 20 or so years ago, I would contend there is no gaming of any system, other than maybe a system of inventing an extra school year worth of tuition for a great percentage of paying families. Many people on here probably could have used that extra year, and I would contend that the concept was thoughtfully developed by mostly good people, with education as the primary focus. To say that the government model of grades 1-12, unchanged for let's say 60-70 years, is the gold standard of excellence in education would be questionable at best.

I think a big issue is people give the college coaches way to much credit when it comes to recruiting. They are human and have lives. So they listen to rumors and other coaches to find the best players. So when a kid is playing with kids 2 and a half years younger then him even at a younger age, It helps in the long run. This older kid will be talked about and mentioned in a positive way. So yes the college coach will watch him with his own eyes but he will be swayed by all the great things the club or high school coach has said about the kid. I would never say these ER kids are not great players but its insulting to say the holdbacks are not gaming a system to gain these roster spots.

Again, you are trying to equate differentiating educational systems (public vs. private) with club lacrosse. The two do not go hand in hand. Sorry, but parents are not doing pre-1st when their kid is 5 years old to "game" the recruiting system 10 years down the road.

Most private school HS kids are about a year older than most public school kids in the same grade. This is a direct result of the education system. It is not a viable argument to say this system was developed to influence sports recruiting. Therefore, it is not fair to say people in this situation are "gaming" the system. Should parents have their kids skip a grade in private school to keep in line with the government system? Seemingly, that would be "gaming" the system.

No one cares about Private schools and doing PreFirst..No one cares what you do for your child to get him a good education..
Most dont even care when it comes time for you to be on your HS team.

What people DO CARE about is the gaming of YOUTH SPORTS.. Specifically gaming Youth lacrosse! Many feel letting a select group of children play down goes against what YOUTh sports is about.

You can tell you are not from Maryland or are completely clueless about the education system in Baltimore.
Your "stupid" arguments that as an adult you will have to compete, it is fueled by 7th and 8th grade, etc are lame. I didnt realize that we were teaching our 2025 9 year old's life lessons on adult jobs.
Youth sports is one area most people with any character would have played with a level playing field.

You apologists always want us to teach our children life lessons, have our children play against older competition,etc ...but for some reason that does not apply to the children of the holdback apologists?? Wonder Why??

There is not some nefarious conspiracy at the youth level to hold kids back at school, so that during club lacrosse they can be gaming the system by a year (playing down). Parents have their kids in school, and do what is best for them. Then when it is time to sign up for sports, you either check your age, or you check your grade, depending on what system that sport is using. Sometimes you will be older, sometimes you will be younger. The kids that love the game don't care about this, unless their parents whine at home about it, then it gets planted in their brains at some point. There will always be some bad seed that does the wrong thing for their kid, but lacrosse has mostly good people. It's a shame to create the sense that there is some universal widespread problem.

Ahh it was only a matter of time.. welcome back reclass whiners.. Can we all agree that girls youth soccer participation dwarfs lacrosse participation? Ok.. I would like to point out some recent developmentss for all of those who think the youth lacrosse community is corrupt and parents and players are gaming the system.. The Development academy (the gold standard in youth soccer)). There is no higher organization. Bottom line. There is the NPL, Then a step up to ECNL and then there is the GDA (girls development academy which is the feeder program into all colleges and the women's national team... My 2004 bday 12 year old daughters program was selected to join. They also just announced the age groups for the 2017/2018 season. They will have 3 age group combinations. 14's 2004/2003. 16's 2002/2001 and 18's 2000/1999!!! Oh my God.. Next season my little 8th grade girl will have to compete in front of D1 coaches all season long and at showcases against older more mature 2003 ninth graders!!! Actually it's perfect. the following season she is the older age player in the group.. Thats how it works.. So tired of hearing how unfair it is by parents on this forum. Considering in regions outside of NY and MD you absolutely have to combine ages to field teams!! Get over your pathetic stance on how unfair it is that your little Jonny has to play against kids 7 months older!! Ok 16 months older on a very rare occasion. Your kid and mine either has it or doesn't!!!! Signed on age parent..

"you're kid has it or they don't". What a sad state of affairs. Less than 10% of these kids will be playing professional sports or in D1 college. I hope some of these kids focus on their academics and make a difference in society vs having their parents live thru them to make up for an unfulfilled childhood.

Word

Stay on topic my court jester. Why not address the real content of the post? Oh yeah you are not capable and there is no rebuttal. Remember dopey we are in this for the same "end game". Get our boys into a school they "might" not otherwise get an opportunity to attend.. You can go back to watering the plants now. And it's your not "you're" in this case

Ahh it was only a matter of time till the holdback apologists come and and make ZERO sense.
Did you even think about what you wrote?? Your moan and groan about the "whiners" complaining about select lacrosse players playing down and what do you give us as a example..

AGE BASED soccer !! LOL You are Hilarious.. Here is some logic bright one..Your daughter gets a chance to be the older age every other year in your example..Holdbacks are ALWAYS the older player EVERY YEAR!!! Get it..LOL!!!

Here is another one Holdback apologist wise one.Since you are a soccer guy...Boys/Men soccer is the most popular sport in world..They have more youth/HS/College/professional teams in the world of any sport. They go by age like your daughter??? So why does Lacrosse need to give select kids an advantage always over other children?? Does Lacrosse have it right and soccer governing body have it wrong? Time to call up FIFA and let them know how screwed up they are! LOL

Another day, another FCA commit

Lacrosse is not giving anyone an advantage, and lacrosse is a sport, not an entity. You graduate from high school when you graduate from high school! Public schools don't do pre-first. It is really that simple, other than the less than .5 percent that do pre-first AND repeat a year of elementary or middle school, and usually that bunch actually needs an extra year of school. The holdback skeptics have created this issue in their own minds. Once in high school nobody cares, again, oh have a certain amount of years until you graduate. What would you suggest, age limits for all school grades? Who monitors that, the government! The sport is doing just fine; fastest growing sport nationally for years, essentially no bad publicity. Great kids, great teams all over the place!!

Very well said.

Private schools are in the business of educating children. If your child needs extra time because they can't sit still, get through a day without crying or napping, it makes sense to do an extra year to let them mature. What does that have to do with their ability to play sports? Kids don't have to play sports with "their friends" on the grade. I personally believe hockey does it right. You make a team by birth year- regardless of your grade. If your team is good, you can play up against Majors if you are in the Minor division, but you never play down. Every once in awhile excellent players get a waiver from the governing body to skip a year and play with an older team. These players are usually the kids that go the furthest. This is the exact opposite from lacrosse. The soft mentality of playing down is ridiculous. Play your age or play up. If you are talented enough, you will stand out no matter where you are. If you are small, you can do a PG year and possibly still be small, but truly talented kids can overcome that short coming.... Look at some of the small college and MLL players. Personally, I was never concerned with my kids as they always played up and are all in HS now, so my stance isn't personally rooted. I just think the sport has been reduced to a "pampered kid" sport and there is less grit among the players. It's far easier to take the easy way out than work to stand out. It's what is wrong with society today- kids and their parents need immediate gratification- if you are not committed or being looked at by 8th or 9th grade, repeat a grade rather than work hard or have faith in your skills. I'm quite disappointed to see that holding back players is now becoming more popular in NY and NJ. I wonder what the new trend will be when the holdback advantage disappears and levels the field.

[quote=Anonymous]Another day, another FCA commit

WOW that team is loaded. When do they post the roster?

9 commits from FCA/Crabs/Looneys. Care to guess what percentage of those are reclassed? Age based classification for youth lacrosse can't come soon enough. What a sham.

Petro at Hopkins does not have a single MD commit. Probably because they all know Baltimore is a dump.

so you should not go to Yale because New Haven is a dump...You are a [lacrosse]

You must be from Baltimore. 10 Commits from MD and not a single one to Hopkins? What is the reason Mr. Natty Bo?

Not reclass'd. Did pre-first. Nothing to see here. Youth age divisions would have no bearing on this outcome today, as they are not in youth lacrosse anymore. HS is HS, and recruiting is organized by graduation year, period. Talk to the government about taking a look at the public grade 1-12 system, but don't label the kids for getting the best education possible. Most of the kids on their teams, and the teams they compete against are all about a year older or younger on average. There is nothing nefarious going on here. Good kids, good players.

the girls are not attractive at hopkins. my sons wanted nothing to do with it.

King of Holdbacks doesn't have one from the land of Holdbacks.

Beautifully said.

But, as you say, the girls at Hopkins are not attractive, is this the main reason why your daughter is going there or is it because your wife went to Hopkins?

Larry LarryMiller,
still waiting on who is the best 2020 player in the country who's on VLC.

I have no idea. I guess I could look it up but you could tell me.

Learning lacrosse but soccer is my game.

Oh my God, grow the f**k up.