BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Early Recruiting

I know one who is al best an average player, he isn't even one of the top players on his club. I seriously don't get it, and I can guarentee if my job rested on who I was recruiting, I would do way more research and I wouldn't be signing kids that I have only seen play once or twice. (And playing against weak opponents). I will be shocked if this kid ever sees time at his HS much less EVER steps on a college field. Time will tell

So idiot the sports you listed that you say laugh are 100 percent full scholarship sports(not baseball)please be educated before you post. Also how many times so hear on weekend TV her mom was XXX, her dad was XXX.... let's call it 50 percent. Read GRIT...a great book.

sp you are assuming that because their dad is a coach that they were some type of lacrosse genius? I know plenty of coaches who just coach so they can make sure their kid is the "star". Again, time will tell. I am sure that some of these early commits will have great careers, but I am just a certain that come of them will never see the field.

Everyone of these 2020 commits is legit. How can a parent come on here and act like they know more than a D1 coach. I'm sure most of seen these kids play more than 1-2 times. That statement alone makes you look foolish. Go back to screaming from the sidelines because your son or daughter really isn't that good. Most of these kids committed have been to 3-4 individual show case events beside their team events. And unbeknownst to you have multiple schools interested in them.

They ought to run these kids thru combines to test their overall athleticism and not to mention their grit. I bet most cant run a sub 5.0 40 yd dash and bench more than 95 lbs. Most would probably puke or pass out if truly athletically tested. But somehow they are considered elite D1 recruits?? Seems Silly.

A lot of these commits are 1 and 2 years older than the kids they play against. Will be interesting to see how they fair against upperclassman in HS who may also be held back 1 or 2 years. Gig is up - welcome to the real world.

The constant whining about kids being older is really getting stale already. The fact is when they get to high school they are all playing against older and younger kids, and they either sink or swim, its that simple.

So then why hold your kids back??

You're funny!

Some punctuation would go along way here!! Had to read it 5 times to kinda understand!/;,?

This statement is spot on if we're talking about high school kids, (and not 8th & 9th graders playing summer middle school grade level). And these 'older early commits' should hopefully be playing Varsity level, because up here in Westchester, there is a lot of bad JV lacrosse being played. At the prep school level it is a different story of course, where a school like Brunswick Ct. can field Fresh - Varsity highly competitive teams.

The whole system is a joke. Unfortunately, there is no getting the toothpaste back in the tube.

I have seen a lot of these early commits from MD. The one thing they virtually all have in common (with some rare exceptions) is that they are big holdbacks who have spent most of their time playing against much smaller kids. I'd like to see their first exposure to some double holdback Sr. laying the smack down on the supposed wonder kid who has verbaled to UNC, Hopkins, MD, etc. Won't be pretty...

The Prep school world is a completely different animal. The Prep school world is filled with holdbacks and reclasses. It is conceivable in the prep school lax world that a 15 year old freshman makes varsity and will suit up against 18 and 19 year old seniors.

The system can be fixed very easily by making club teams and tournaments age based instead of grade based. Its no secret that there are certain teams that play their teams down a grade to appear dominant. Going age based would eliminate all that and all the crying by Long Island parents. Again, on a versity team, there are kids ranging from 14-18 depending on the program, and the younger kids learn to compete at that level which makes them better.

As far as the holdbacks, people hold their kids back for many reasons. Some hold their kids back in kindergarten because they dont feel their child is ready. Some folks reclass their kids because they are late birthdays and have fallen behind academically and athletically. I would agree with anyone that holding back your kid for strictly athletic purposes is asinine, but Im sure it goes on all the time.

Concentrate on your kid and what is best for him or her and youll be fine. All the crying and whining about other kids isnt going to change anything and it detracts from what your doing and instills a sense of being a victim in your kid. If a kid is good in the classroom, is a good player, works hard and keeps his nose clean, he/she will be just fine and find a spot that fits him/her.

You're right, but why give up...help create a new dispenser.

Except by the time Lacrosse season comes along these Freshman will already be 16 if they are not now.

Currently 35 2020 commits and counting ..some heldback a some on age. Look at the list of 2017 commits to the 70 D1 schools and it totals close to 700 players... 700.!! Who the fk cares about holdbacks.. As above poster points out all those rising freshman committed or not are now jokeying for a varsity spot on their high school team against 14-19 yr olds!.. "If your kid good in the classroom, is a good player, and works hard and keeps his nose clean, he/she will be just fine and find a spot that fits him/her."

If you're really good it doesn't matter except for cheap shots. My son is 16 yo rising Jr. Played in committed games against 19 and 20 yo rising college freshman. Broke one kids ankles on a dodge and the older kid crossed checked him in back. No big deal. He got right up and laughed at him. He says to him "is that the best you got a 20 years old?" Classic. IMHO this re-class thing is going to start to produce some real bad misses on these recruits. Most of these kids are going to get their asses handed to them when they actually have to play on age or up in college.

Are coaches concerned about older recruits idling, not progressing, by playing down against younger competition? It can't be the preferred method of developing players

Out of the 35 what percent are reclassed? Don't know all the kids but didn't seem like many.

So you decry "all the whining by the LI parents", yet in the same post, you state that it is asinine to reclassify or hold back kids strictly for athletics. Sure, there are numerous reasons why parents hold back their kids from kindergarten which have nothing to do with athletics - but lets be intellectually honest here; we are on a lacrosse blog on an early recruiting thread. the people we LI parents are "whining" about are parents who reclassify or hold back their kids with the strategy that when the younger kids are just hitting puberty, their little Johnny has an obvious physical advantage over the kids he is competing against - with the hopes that he will get on coaches' radar and commit early. That's the plain truth and in my opinion is a stones-throw away from cheating. Sure they will play against older kids in HS, but most D1 early recruiting is not done at Varsity HS games (on LI) primarily because most of those kids already have their commitments in place (not to mention the seasons conflict) . And coaches know the freshman is going against a senior and really don't expect domination against an 18 year old - just grit and determination, and the ability to be athletic and hold one's own. Maybe the source of that whining is also frustration - frustration with driving on the NJTPKE for 6 hours down to watch a group of kids who have worked their assess off lose to what would otherwise be an inferior team because some kid with a 5 o'clock shadow who never comes off the field, is running over kids with 2 hairs under their arms. Just make sure little Johnny knows the physical advantage eventually diminishes to zero by college. And mommy and daddy cant pull a "reclassification" when he is going on a job interview.
This is about a physical advantage for early recruiting - plain and simple - don't put it on the LI parents.

Why are these holdback attacks aimed at LI parents? I've been involved with club lacrosse for 8 years and MD and MA seem to have the most kids playing down. Frankly, we haven't really experienced a large number of LI kids playing down an age group. The most audacious offenders have been the Canadian clubs like Edge who register entire teams down attempting to standout. Lame all around.

I'm a Westchester/Western CT coach.

Well, Edge's strategy didn't work for the 2017 Team that played in the finals of the NLF Tournament in Stony Brook about a month ago... The LI Express 2017 Committed Team took them apart, despite Edge's overly aggressive play.

Hey West/Ct coach trust me, you guys have them also, remember Ny has a Dec 1st in most spot cut off.

Well, Edge's strategy didn't work for the 2017 Team that played in the finals of the NLF Tournament in Stony Brook about a month ago... The LI Express 2017 Committed Team took them apart, despite Edge's overly aggressive play. [/quote]

I'm a LI dad. Have played Edge 2017 many times over the years. That was not their 'A' team. Their top group at it's peak, summer 14-15 were a top team in the class. They were all born in 1998.

Their top 2017's are all committed and no longer playing due to Jr.A or Jr.B box lacrosse, the World U19 tournament or travel/cost.

I'm a LI dad. Have played Edge 2017 many times over the years. That was not their 'A' team. Their top group at it's peak, summer 14-15 were a top team in the class. They were all born in 1998.

Their top 2017's are all committed and no longer playing due to Jr.A or Jr.B box lacrosse, the World U19 tournament or travel/cost. [/quote]

Not getting ur point...The Edge Team that showed up got thrashed in the finals... How many Edge 2017s As as you say made the Canda U19 Team?

Not getting ur point...The Edge Team that showed up got thrashed in the finals... How many Edge 2017s As as you say made the Canda U19 Team? [/quote]

Genius, what he is saying is the the Edge team that got dismantled by the LI committed kids isn't their top players. What is so hard to understand?

How does every thread always turn into a insulting jab or a pissing contest
How about a little decorum on the forum

Genius, what he is saying is the the Edge team that got dismantled by the LI committed kids isn't their top players. What is so hard to understand? [/quote]

That's like saying that Kansas City won the World Series because they weren't playing the 1986 Mets.. Two teams played.. Edge lost. Btw US U19 beat Canada twice in the U19 tournament... Where were those 2017 Edge kids ?

Really???? now LI has their dad's playing against HS kids? holdbacks no longer an issue i Guess

I have been following the early recruiting conversation for a while now and it appears to be a whole lot of sour grapes. For the record my child is born in May 2004 and is about to enter 7th grade, so he is on the young side. If there are holdbacks, he will be playing against kids MUCH older. To that I say -- c'est la vei. If he is good enough he will get recruited. If the college coaches take the time to look at his age one day down the road if recruited they will hopefully see he held his own or out performed against kids up to 2 years older. If not then it wouldn't matter anyway bc when he is in college, if he continued to play he would be playing against men and not boys anyway. Additionally, if there are approximately 70+ D1 teams with 45 kids per team then we are talking over 3000 potential spots. I am pretty sure that all of the recruits are not reclassified or holbacks thus ALOT of spots for the others. One final note, I do think it is pathetic if you hold back for sports wherein you hope to get a 20% (maybe more or less) scholarship when the reality of this is that you should only be hoping your kids get a great education and prepares for life AFTER lacrosse. I also do think you are doing your kid a disservice by having him "excel" against younger kids. Your child will know he is beating up on kids potentially 2 years younger and that is the only reason he excels. Just my two cents. Everyone may now return to their daily rants about holdbacks.

Well said

I think your view will change when your son is recruited. Saying there are 3,000 spots really is not the reality. How about narrowing it down to 900 kids per recruiting class. Then realize there are only 20-30 teams that meet your kids academics requirements and majors.220-350 spots now, oh and your son plays attack and now theres 60-90 spots for your son....not 3,000.

This is very true! Going through this now and finding an academic match that pairs well athletically can be a little tricky and also true for D3 schools. My sons know their academics come first and they will not settle, just to play a sport. More money in academics anyway, so grades matter.

As for spots available, those numbers are a good representation of reality and its even harder for a fogo or goalie. If your dream school commits a kid from your year, you might as well find a new dream school.

I have found it interesting and sad for many to see really talented kids not get recruited because of grades. Before my son started the recruiting process I heard that grades were a big factor, but knowing a few kids that couldn't get committed because of grades was eye opening. It's definitely worth staying on top of your kid's academics. If two kids are of equal talent, higher GPA may be a deciding factor.

Good story about early recruiting in football - http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/the-forgotten-prodigy/

Sounds totally crazy, this takes "crazy dad" to a whole new level. He didn't start a club team for his Grandson, he started 2 schools. Feel sorry for that kid, he obviously has been very invested in his "life" as a quarterback, it sounds like he doesn't have much else. Very sad...

Very sad

sounds like a lot of guys I know in the lacrosse world.

Also pretty sad that lacrosse parents have so unanimously read over Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" as a bible for holding kids back the grade. Seems like very few of them read the rest of the book very carefully. One chapter talked about the low stakes / high consequences "tournament" kids enter to be street drug dealers. Most drug dealers live with their parents, and very few ever see riches at the top of the tournament results.

Lacrosse isn't as odious as drug dealing, but the principle isn't too far off. The best of what's around in this sport is a partial scholarship to a good college. And that is pretty rare to accomplish...it is also a very small fractional reward for such a life imbalance all the way through childhood. I'd love to see more kids playing club and high school lacrosse because they are enjoying it. The rewards at the end are a pretty low stakes game anyways. Parents and kids should know that.