BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Looney's Boys Lacrosse

Anybody who has the time and inclination to produce stats like this seriously needs a mental health examination.

Does all of this really matter? We could have the same conversation with any club. This year is good, this year is bad. Move on. Enjoy it.

Let me guess, MD Elite Dad

2019 A team or Orange team is the worst of the daddy ball bunch. Not good. Several games below 500 for the season.

You're right. Why bring facts into an argument about which club has a better record top to bottom?

A very high level college football coach told me that the best players will be found, You just have to get them on the field. So lets stop acting like any of us Dads care about the name on the front of the Jersey we only care about the name on the back. We all use the club programs as much or more the the people running them. Everyone should move there kid until they get to play/start.

Very good point! There are very good players on some of the premiere teams looking for the opportunity to have a more prominant role on a 2nd tier team. Still good coaching and good quality of play, just slightly less talented and less depth. The depth of talent often separates the premiere teams from the 2nd tier teams.

One, these are stats, not facts.

Two, these "stats" are skewed. Not every club listed here fielded the same number of teams. Some fielded teams in NPYLL. Some in Hoco. Some in both. Some fielded teams at the A level. Some only in B. Some in both.

There is a wide variance among these teams in terms of number of teams fielded, teams in HoCo, teams in NPYLL, teams in both, teams who played NPYLL A, NPYLL B, etc.

Thus, the winning percentage stats are rendered meaningless. The only thing you can draw is that the author of the "study" is weird.

I didnt realize that the only guideline for a successful club season was winning percentage. Interesting.

Correct your Kid should care about his high school team winning or losing, and care about becoming a better player anywhere and everywhere else he plays. I am sure those AAU Basketball kids do not care if there teams are winning or not. They care about how much they scored, who saw them play, and if there Jumper or free throws got better.

These stats are only for the top level teams at each grade level. No B or C level league results were included. These are the very top teams representing each club at all Grade levels (a win for the top 2rd grade team counts as much as a win for the top 8th grade team). The information came from the NPYLL and HoCo websites and about ½ hour of effort was taken to put them all together in a spreadsheet. The stats/facts are only as good as the NPYLL and HoCo websites.



In some cases, the clubs chose not to field a team at the top level in each grade. Some clubs only fielded 2 top level teams total. Other clubs had as many as 7. The top level HoCo leagues may not be at the same level as the top level Npyll leagues, but I think they are in the same ball park. - so yes the results are skewed, but I don't believe they are meaningless.

I was at a loss on how to evaluate the multitude of clubs out there today to justify the significant cost (Paying these costs for youth sport may be the real reason for a mental health examination).

All clubs "build character", "improve a player's skills", "win championships" and put out D1 players – just look at their websites. But as everyone points out, most clubs are inconsistent top to bottom having good and bad teams and coaches within the organization. Depending on who you are talking to, the same team/coach could be good or bad. So I crunched the numbers.

I am open to any suggestions on a better way to compare the clubs top to bottom.

Is using tournament records any better? The overall tournament competition is very inconsistent especially with teams using “guest players” and playing down a grade level or teams just hitting the weaker tournaments.

Is listing D1 commits better? D1 commits really only come from the older teams and you don’t know if the club that now has those players did the development of them.

Even talking to the coaches and attending many tryouts can't give a complete picture on how well your kid will fit on a team.

In general, I believe good coaching does translate into improved skills and therefore wins.

As for the weirdness, you can lump me in with the fantasy football and rotisserie baseball players. Guilty as charged.

The best way to "evaluate" a club is:

do the kids get better?

do the kids enjoy playing with their teammates/coaches

does it match my kid?

what is the reputation of the club in terms of developing impact HS players?

if my son wants to play in college, how successful is that club in getting their players recruited


Any of the above is much more important than wins, losses and/or tournament finishes.

And no, the work you did took a lot more than just 30 minutes. Come on.

Look, I agree with you 100%. It is not about the wins and losses and being on a club that struggles makes those Ws that much sweeter when they are the result of the time and effort put in as individuals and as a team. I realize most kids (mine included) will never play D1, D2, or D3 ball so trying to ride the coat-tails of the dominate team is no answer.

Also - some of these clubs are in regions without a large rec program feeding them. MD elite (Emmittsburg), MD Xtreme (Olney), and Storm (Eastern Shore) don't have nearly the same number of rec clubs (and lacrosse dads) getting the kids ready at the youngest ages as the Baltimore and Annapolis area clubs.

The big question is : Where do you go to get honest unbiased answers to your questions.

A lot of these questions can't be answered by the club or the families associated with the clubs - they will all tell you the same positive responses. They can't be answered by the families that have left the club (willingly or otherwise). You can see by reading this forum, for every post praising a club, there is a response bashing it.

Unless you spend a couple months with the club, you really can't tell if it is a good fit.

Do you think the high school coaches would be the best place to go for unbiased assessments of the clubs? I'd love to see a poll of the high school coaches ranking the different aspects of individual clubs.

Love the BOTC and most discussions, but I am tiring of these dubious arguments supported by misleading stats. There are 3 strong clubs in DC area: Madlax, VLC and Blackwolf. Madlax is the best top to bottom. Period.
Real Madlax youth stats: 23-10 at all AA levels in Spring NPYLL. That's a 70% win percentage BTW (23/33=.6969). Then dig a little deeper--U15AAA at 7-2 and U13AAA at 8-1. Losses to Crabs and Hawks, Baltimore and Annapolis teams respectively. Pretty good by my standards, and best teams at this critical age in Washington DC. To be fair, Crabs are still better top to bottom, but gap is closing. As a Baltimore club, Crabs are not a real option for us DC parents. Hawks (Annapolis) were awesome this past year, particularly at youth, but again too far for most DCers.

The Madlax U15 team won Dicks national title at Christmas (U13 then) and the current Madlax U13 team won the World Championship in Denver this July. Look it up, and confirm. The U13 team won 4 out of 5 tournaments this summer, losing in finals at Young Gunz to a loaded Dukes team. This team has lost only 2 games since it was formed in Fall of 2013 and is clearly one of the best, if not #1 U13 team in country (sorry LI). Won Next Level Fall League, all 3 Fall Tournaments, 2nd in Spring League after losing to Crabs in final by a goal. 2-1 v. the Crabs too, after beating them in fall NPYLL championship and in Young Gunz this Summer. There isn't a youth team in DC that can compete with these teams. In fact, VLC enters its U13 in B brackets to avoid Madlax, haters check Fall NPYLL and Summer Greene Turtle before responding. As you may know, Blackwolf doesn’t do youth, VLC only u11, and Madlax .500 at U9 and U11, although the Madlax U11’s had a great summer.
Madlax will continue to be stronger at 2018, as rising Freshmen will be the U15 AAA moving up -- including first 2018 commit to John Hopkins. Go watch them play – a very skilled and entertaining group. VLC not is same zip code and Blackwolf is in formation.
U15AAA will be best team in youth lacrosse in Washington DC, as it will be rising U13’s. Players are getting tremendous national exposure. Google them if you doubt me. VLC will continue to avoid this team.
Madlax is also very strong at 2017, as is VLC to be fair. Madlax stronger at 2016, VLC at 2015. Blackwolf is a ?? at these levels for me, although awesome reputation. As VLC’s really strong senior team dwindles, it will be left with 1 good team, at 2017. Further, this VLC team is loaded with Madlax defectors. Despite repeated efforts by coaches, VLC has been unsuccessful at recruiting Madlax players at other levels.
While change is constant, Madlax has consistently been the top program in the Washington DC area.

oops, I thought I clicked on the Looney's lacrosse thread, not Madlax's. My Bad!!! I also though this was the Maryland Main Forum...not DC's

Agree, 2020 talent will catch them. Lost to a few other Md clubs and may continue. LI concerned

what does this mean? Who is Long Island concerned with? Looney 2020, madlax from previous post?

UMMM Every time we played Crush we got blown out. We have a long way to go. 15-0 12-1 those are bad losses

my kid is not on the 2020 team. I think coaches, parents and kids know that 91 is on another planet. how about giving them some credit for being one of the better teams in their grade and going to the same tournaments as crush and other top teams.

Rec teams faired better than those scores.

Which rec teams?

Mary Dobkin All Stars for one....

Second that, half those kids from the older teams play for fca and crabs when they can

Looney's had a great 2015 team and a very good 2016 one. Every other team is marginal. The 2017 team is horrible.

2018 and 2019 too

If you're going to make a statement like that, about these "horrible teams", can we assume you have some kind of statistics to back this up??? I hope you realize they have multiple teams at these ages, not team....so when you say their 2018 and 2019, what are you referring to????

Anyone who has seen any Looney's team knows that the program has crumbled. The rise of FCA, Breakers and some other clubs have really hurt them.

Any looneys team? You are a joke. Make an educated statement with facts. Anyone can post meaningless posts like this. Fact is looneys is right there with breakers and fca in most grad years.

Have you seen Looney's 2017? LOL.

Yes they are horrible. This would be their Orange Teams which are supposed to be the first teams. Organization in shambles. Daddy Ball all the way

Because of fca btw. Only affected 17 and 18 teams. All other teams are competitive

Here are their records in the top levels of Hoco:

2018 - did not play in top level
2019 - 2-3-1
2020 - 5-1-0 (HoCo Champs)
2021 - 3-3-0

So they were a combined 10-7-1 playing in AA, yeah, they should just give up now.

They were on the brink of folding and had to run to fca and crabs for help.

how did fca and crabs help?

I just have to hear how Looneys were on the brink of folding, please do tell. You seem to have so much knowledge.

Sounds like a disgruntled parent. his kid probably didnt make Looneys, or he thinks his son is a blue-chipper and he switches programs every year because none are good enough. Keep dreaming Dad.

Any kid who can't make a Looney's team needs to give up the sport.

ouch! That Hurts!

true that. write the check and your in...daddy ball at its finest