BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Wrong, I am not with Looney's, never have been. My fury comes from people on this board who are not associated with either team involved and yet yell and scream forfeit. Look, the holdbacks are also breaking the true rule/guideline of HOCO and every team in 2020 elite has, to some extent, holdbacks. Maybe not as many as Crabs but they have them. So you are saying its ok to violate the true/intended guideline on grade but not on this. This player is a kid, in the 8th grade yet good enough to play on his varsity school team. So lets go after him and his team and make them forfeit the game.
Don't you have better things to do than this.
I do know from a reliable source than this kid won't be going to school in Florida this fall, he will be going to McDonogh, so now find something to yell about that.

They are in it for the kids but given the landscape in youth lacrosse today and the holdback situation, what league is truly age based. I know players on teams that play in the Koopers league that have holdbacks. Every team has them. Do I like it or agree with it, no, but it is almost impossible to get leagues to change.

The problem stems from organizations that think they can ignore the rules and get away with it. The kids plays for a HS team. Rules state no HS players. Rule broken. Forfeit. End of story.

The fact that there are players flying in to play an 8th grade spring game is beyond comprehension. WTH is going on?? I mean seriously wth is going on.

If they are not following their own rules on 1. Hodlbacks and age appropriateness and 2) kids playing who have played high school then No, they are not in it for the kids. Stand up and be adults and do something about it instead of pointing to other people/leagues/tournaments and at least follow your own rules. Yes, your will keep most teams because you are the only league in town right now for Sunday play but stand up and protect the kids and families doing the right thing and stop pandering to certain teams. You are part of the problem and definitely not in it for the kids but probably for $$ just like the clubs who have manipulated the system and broken the rules. How do you look at yourself in the mirror and and convince yourself you are doing it for the kids? You are willing to sacrifice demonstrating to all the kids that are doing it right that you will sell out and break your own rules just to be part of the crowd. What ever happened to character and sportsmanship HoCo?

What is your excuse this time Howard County for not following your own rules? You know what is going on and ignoring it. What kind of youth organization does that?

It's an 8th grade league with some of the best players in the US and a preview of MIAA lax to come. Glad the league and teams are allowing flexibility.

Once and for all get over this topic. It is a grade based league, not age. Who cares about anything other than what grade kids are in right now. That is all that matters in grade based leagues. If you want to play age based play rec. Move on to another topic.

This is not flexibility - it is breaking rules for a select few. A rule is a rule and hoco is playing games with youth and bowing to the favored few. They are not in the business to break their own rules. You wrote the rules for a reason- now follow them and stop trying to be friends with those you perceive to be influential. It is not your responsibility to make assumptions and treat the elite kids differently nor your role to prepare them for MIAA. Not all of these kids play MIAA with their and now hocos elite rule manipulation. You and your senior managment are simply giving in to those you perceive with the power to keep your league running happy and calling it "flexibility".

Very convenient. You are cheating according to,the league rules and trying to justify it.

The Club teams are grade based and have all the baggage that goes along with it. If HoCo implements a age requirement, the clubs will go back to NPYLL or some other league and you guys will whine about that. HoCo will return to just being a B level or rec league.

Instead of constantly complaining about this league, you should appreciate that HoCo has pulled all the great clubs within 100 miles and has them playing on great fields with scoreboards and great refs.

Thanks Crabs dad of a 16 year old 8th grader. No one here cares about your opinion. Go enjoy drivers Ed with your kid.

For the third week in a row all Crabs team win...Crabs 4 Haters 0..Get bent haters

Everyone is better than MadLax - please...

I wonder if the 2020 Crabs players will be tired on Saturday. Lots of Junior Proms on Friday night.

Looneys= forfeit. Hoco grow some. Rising sons is putting in the challenge.
Crabs backing it

And you should follow your rules which were put in place to keep youth sports just that - youth and not high school age players or players playing high school already. You can have all the great fields you want, mediocre refs and still no character or back bone. Fields, scoreboard and refs mean nothing when you ignore rules and perpetuate a real problem in youth lacrosse by becoming part of the problem. Could care less about a scoreboard and more about teaching kids about what is right. The rest is all fluff and as a youth organization you should know that and care more about the kids then fields, refs and scoreboards. Fix the real problems, follow your rules and do what is right for the majority of the kids then maybe people will stop complaining. It is about the kids after all.

Seriously...Bitmore 2021 kids are probably the best around...college coaches chomping at the bit to talk to these kids someday. Well coached and all headed for success....Bitmore is strong and on the map as one of the best 2021 teams in Maryland..... Love watching those 16 kids just beast pretentious kids...Blue collar lacrosse at its finest. Fun watching stuck up parents figure out why they lost so bad to "that" team. Great coaching, fundamentals, and we work harder than any other team out there....Haters beware......Our talk is our play....

And nobody respects those wins - keep living in your bubble and pretending you are winners.

That's must be why they are not playing on Saturday this week!! Classic.

This one is pretty ballsy for even HoCo to allow to get by. Looneys had the rules just like every team in the league and it is common practice that anyone who has played even one game of high school is no longer eligible for youth. No matter where they live or what the reason.

My wife and I just went out and decided to be safe and get an Uber driver...Our pleasant driver told us he plays on the 2020 Crabs team...Great kid...

. You wish. Now, reach down, grab your ears and pull your head out. We all just love people who talk out of their butts.

College coaches lined up waiting to talk to Bitmore 2021 players. Really? For what janitor positions? You sound like the village idiot.

Blue Collar lacrosse? What does that even mean? Isn't your club one of the most expensive ones to join? Maybe I've misheard, but don't better players get a discount and those that aren't as strong foot the bill? Good for you if you have great players. But don't be a hypocrite. And don't assume other teams are full of rich kids with stuck up parents. That's ridiculous. And, most important, don't get smug. Everyone loses once in a while.

Come on man....These my club is better than your club posts are nothing but troll posts. Probably accurate that the originator and the responder are the same person....Probably accurate that they are not even from Bitmore..... By the way my kid is better than yours.

Come back on here in 2 years when your top 4 or 5 players have left for a established club with hundreds of D1 kids. Sorry I am old and have had several kids go through this world. It will happen and it should because that is whats best for those top 4 or 5 kids on your team.

Well, for one some of these players are extremely good and do not get the broad exposure in their home state so they play up here in Md.
The FOGO everyone is yelling about is an 8th grader who plays varsity for his HS team, he is that good. He has played for a Md. club team for the past two years. What has he gotten out of that, a sweet deal with a MIAA school, which he will be attending here in Md. this fall. He is already on the radar of many top D1 colleges.
If the parents can afford it (and this player can) and the kid wants to do it, why is it anyone's business. Seems people always have something to say on things that do not concern them.

I assume you're a parent and not some kid posting. So assuming you are an adult, you should know what it means to have things like integrity and character. This isn't an indeitment of the kid, but the coaches first and foremost followed by the parents.

Rules are rules, and in this case fairly black and white. Whether he is good enough to play varsity is completely irrelevant. What's lost in this current cesspool of youth lacrosse are the things parents and coaches pretend to espouse as values. We're building men of character, values blah blah blah. [lacrosse]. You're enabling kids to say it's ok to bend every rule possible or simply break them to get ahead. Well done. And America wonders why kids these days don't emulate previous generations that made this country great. It starts with people like you.

Looneys cheated - imagine that...

But he still needs to follow the rules in place . Dont care who has him on their radar etc. Follow the rules and play with some integrity. Hoco should not allow Looneys to be breaking the rule - why is okay for some to break the rules and others not? There are alot of kids who could play high school lacrosse but do not because there are rules in place that do not allow it. They apply to this boy too.

Yes, I am a parent of a 2020 elite player, but not on either of the two teams involved in this situation.
Do I like the fact that youth lacrosse has taken a turn for the worst, no I do not. I strongly feel the holdback situation is way out of control and this league and every other should go back to age base, that quickly solves the question of where a player plays. This player in question, the FOGO, does not even know the rules we are talking about, none of the players know this type of guidelines, it's the league who wrote the guidelines and the coaches, who should review and know them.
What I question is parents/fans who are not involved with these two teams quickly jumping in and causing mayhem. If the opposing team has no problem with it we should leave it alone. Perhaps the two coaches discussed this with the league and all were ok with this, who knows. Were the guidelines broken, yes, but the league may be showing flexibility, who knows. I have been told this player only comes up for maybe two games during the spring season. Does that make it right, no, but again the league showing some flexibility. I have no problem with him playing. My major problem is the holdbacks and how some teams (Crabs) completely violates the true spirit of grade base lacrosse. Having 16 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds is completely wrong, but the league looked the other way for Crabs.
It may seem that I am contradicting myself, and I guess I am, but for people to start demanding the other team file a protest and ask for a forfeit is not needed.
For me player safety is top priority and the holdback situation puts that in question.
I feel most of the players have character and most are good kids, at this point let's let them play and hopefully have a good time.ttt

There are very few 8th graders in the HOCO league that could play high school lacrosse. Every team in the HOCO league probably has holdbacks, so all of them are breaking the rules. No, two wrongs do not make a right, but they are all guilty.

There are actually several 2020 kids that easily could play high school - including private and public school kids. The do not because MIAA and Maryland Public schools do not allow it - it is explicit in their rules - and they follow their rules so it does not come up very often. If they transfer from another school having played high school already it starts their clock on 4 years- the maximum they can play in any Maryland school high school ball regardless of where they played the first year.

s, I am a parent of a 2020 elite player, but not on either of the two teams involved in this situation.
Do I like the fact that youth lacrosse has taken a turn for the worst, no I do not. I strongly feel the holdback situation is way out of control and this league and every other should go back to age base, that quickly solves the question of where a player plays. This player in question, the FOGO, does not even know the rules we are talking about, none of the players know this type of guidelines, it's the league who wrote the guidelines and the coaches, who should review and know them.
What I question is parents/fans who are not involved with these two teams quickly jumping in and causing mayhem. If the opposing team has no problem with it we should leave it alone. Perhaps the two coaches discussed this with the league and all were ok with this, who knows. Were the guidelines broken, yes, but the league may be showing flexibility, who knows. I have been told this player only comes up for maybe two games during the spring season. Does that make it right, no, but again the league showing some flexibility. I have no problem with him playing. My major problem is the holdbacks and how some teams (Crabs) completely violates the true spirit of grade base lacrosse. Having 16 year olds playing against 13/14 year olds is completely wrong, but the league looked the other way for Crabs.
It may seem that I am contradicting myself, and I guess I am, but for people to start demanding the other team file a protest and ask for a forfeit is not needed.
For me player safety is top priority and the holdback situation puts that in question.
I feel most of the players have character and most are good kids, at this point let's let them play and hopefully have a good time.ttt
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You can not pick and chose which rules to follow. The team is breaking the rules - period. Change the rule next year if all teams agree. Not mid way during the season when the expectation was that no player would be playing high school. It is not up to anyone to offer flexibility or to interpret the clearly written rule. All elite team players, coaches and families have a say in wanting the league to follow their own rule - not just the two teams directly involved this week. Nobody should be put in the position of having to okay the change of a rule. Get rid of the rule in the future if you find it problematic.

You leave out the fact that the holdbacks aren't breaking any rules. I know, I know. "The Spirit of the Game"

Being that the league is grade based, there are no rules being broken by them. However, the league does explicitly state if you play on a high school team, you can't play in the league.

There is also a rule in Maryland that if you turn 19 before August of you senior year you cannot play. If you turn 19 after August of your senior year you can only play varsity.
This can have an effect on some of the double holdbacks who are 16 or close to 16 and in the 8th grade. By the time they are in their junior year they could be 19 or close to 19.
I don't think some parents of holdbacks think this through and by the time it is realized it is too late.

If they're good enough at that point they will go to Hill, IMG or another prep school. I'm sure the parents have completely thought this through.

Here is the exact wording from the HOCO rules/guidelines:
"The Conference follows a grade based system based on the player’s current grade level and assuming normal progression of school to graduation."

The argument can be made that a 16 year old 8th grader is not normal progression of school to graduation. That is violating and breaking the grade base rule/guidelines. Plus, a play with words regarding a player who plays HS while playing in the HOCO league: "should not be eligible for 8th grade/U15 competition in the same season." Notice is says "should" and not "is not eligible" or "you can't play". Was this written in order to allow some wiggle room? Same can be said for normal progression, that could have been worded better.
I didn't write these, have no idea who did or who had input but the argument could be made on both, as they are weakly worded.

Oh please. That is a leap on both accounts.