BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

The fact that 91 brought on crush kids to a team that is suppose to be a competitive 7Th grade group will eliminate playtime for starters and as it is feast or famine already for the "top 10 blaze players" ,now you add 4 kids from another team to try to get a championship , which honestly means nothing!! you will cut kids short of playtime and if any which is completely unexceptable. There's no loyalty what so ever with this group of coaches . They will play at all cost and if it means getting complaints from a parent that the Allstar player that received a recruitment phone call while they were still playing for their previous travel team and was excepted to the team in the fall will now be sitting on the sidelines.. How are some of these parents going to deal with the new top 10 players not coming off the field ? Is it really worth sticking around any longer ? , when by no doubt their kids was good enough to make the team , but will be not good enough to play .other then during practice as their practice meat . If my son was on that team I would be a realeast from first site and looks elsewhere! there are plenty of other solid teams who can use an attackman , defenseman or a middie ., dont kid yourselves if your kid hardly gets out their now , it will be real disappointing once things start really rolling, and will be to late by then to jump ship. Don't be fooled by the great practices they have and you do it just for that. It will get played out real quick. You will see other organizations producing the same level on intensity as they get older.

What was the score of the 91/FCA-NE game? Anybody know? I wonder why that is not posted on the WSYL site. Did they not play and 91 only played 3 games?

The second day of the North qualifier got canceled due to the weather so they gave bids to the top three teams in each bracket. The teams that are going to Denver are Igloo, 91, Prime Time, Legacy, Eclipse and LIE.

what spring tournaments are club teams playing

Unless you hit the "Quote" button - then the name pops right up where the asterisks were.

What did they do so the public is aware?

What did that club do

In our experience we found the folks we dealt with at the club to not be truthful, we found them to be deceptive, and found that their business was not all they said it was.

It is our opinion and position, that if we experience a scum-bag attitude from a club then they are also treating you the same way.

In this case the club involved was a paying sponsor. I tell you that because we gave them back their money and told them not to come to our house again. There a few groups who were under the mis-guided impression that money talks and we (BOTC) can bought. They found out that is not the case. Add to this group Sean Chamberlain and his boyfriend Ray, Carol Rose, Rich Nessim, and a few others who do not have anyone here who want or seek their business.

You, the lacrosse customers can play with and spend your money with whomever you choose. Speaking for BOTC we do not get involved with lacrosse whores and sluts. There are too many nice guys and truthful businesses out there.

If you have any questions or want our take privately on a club, coach or team get in touch with us privately. If we have information we will share it, and if we don't we will tell you so.

I'm Larry Miller and I approve of this message.

Express not going to Denver. Despite what the pot-stirrers will say, Express played with their normal 2021 team up in Worcester. WSYL is a joke and not a level playing field. Not worth the headache. Other clubs can stroke themselves on how great they are watching their 8th grade 2020s (or in the case of [****] even older) run around legit 7th grade 2021s. So impressive.

Was wondering who ******* was. Makes complete sense.

Agreed that the rule change mid-year made this tourney less reputable. But the tourney is technically age based, not grade based and decisions on what team to bring rests on the director. Kudos to all the teams that went with their 21's (unlike 91, [****], and Primetime).

BUT, now would be the time to call out the bs if you know something about [****]'s older kids, if they even qualify or had inaccurate birth certificates. Some families on Express are from [****]'s south shore area on LI that would know the truth. It should have been reported during the tournament if you were aware. Do what's right and report it now. It's not too late and maybe you can help the tournament directors make it more legit.

Otherwise you're making excuses and condoning the behavior. Those who willingly stand by and stay silent are equally at fault.

I call BS. The WS of lacrosse is sponsored by Coke and ESPN. They chose to do it by age because thats how every other sport and normal thinking human beings have decides id the fairest way to do it. If you did it by grade your inviting players much much older. This is as fair as fair can be. I think its exciting, I think its good for lacrosse. I think any organization that could put a team in would. My kid is not good enough to play at this level, but I still think this a great event. US lacrosse has been preaching for years to go aged based.



Express not going to Denver. Despite what the pot-stirrers will say, Express played with their normal 2021 team up in Worcester. WSYL is a joke and not a level playing field. Not worth the headache. Other clubs can stroke themselves on how great they are watching their 8th grade 2020s (or in the case of [****] even older) run around legit 7th grade 2021s. So impressive.

What team is [****]?

Hay Larry, my kid plays for legacy. Are they the team you say is not reputable?
I'd like to know why because now you got me worried.

Sorry to disappoint and discredit your inaccurate bs, but Prime Time came with only their 2021 players. They did ask a 2020 age eligible kid to play but he backed out at the last minute. Now, they did have two 2022 players participate in Worster and maybe that's what's upsetting you?

Agreed grade play is a joke and age play is the only way this should be done , the issue that many have is you play as your current team the team you will be playing with during the travel season , not bring in guest players. It's so obvious n**1 and L****y have gone beyond ridiculous to form actually another team but go in as the 7th grade lable that they promote .how low is that to claim your 7th grade team is going to Denver but by the rules they can bring in kids who make the cut off.
Plain and simple do not promote your team as 7th grade and add players they are playing on your 8th.

why do some of you keep referring to 2021? its not a 2021 tourney anymore. Its age based. get over it. sorry you're in the transition year but its for the better.

So happy n**1 is asterisked now. Especially since they are affiliated with tournament group that canceled the lax fest on LI last year!

.... and engineered the last minute rule changes that benefitted them and Legacy and hosed the other teams after they picked their teams!

What's with the asterisks in place of some team names but not others?

Scroll up and read.

One thing is certain all the rule changes came from the WSYL staffs my son plays for express and his coach said that all the NLF Was against this being an age based tournament. Being that no organization makes their teams age based and all are grade based makes that easy to see. Very unfortunate the WSYL staff changed this Their justification was that making it a worldwide tournament grades could be different NOT age Problem is don't think anyone outside US Is attending

Great point, sad for these true 2021 kids that got bamboozled!

Wow...way to make excuses for not being able to compete in an AGE-BASED TOURNAMENT where the playing field is level and you can't hide holdbacks. All teams were free to bring a team with players born AFTER May1, 2002. If your team was only 2021s then that's your director's fault.

Of course NLF staff would say that! Those teams thrive on rostering holdbacks to maintain dominance and claim faux 'superiority'. Then they charge more dollars and maintain their brand image. They don't want any young programs challenging their dominance or old, entrenched way of thinking.

Change to age based is good for the public and the sport. This change is not good for orgs like NLF.

BTW, weak argument trying to mention international to support your thoughts. It's in year 2. It will take time to grow and the rules need to be established so no issues arise down the road.

What would be the best age cutoff? I like birth year. So 2021 would be all kids born in 2003. May 1, 2002 to April 30 2003 cut off would have half of two grades together which is never a good thing. Although birth year will have some grade mixing it won't be that many. In New [lacrosse] just December kids would have to play up.

You missed the point. Most teams didn't know about the rules changed untial AFTER they selected their teams. Only 1 or 2 programs knew these rule changes were in the works and were able to plan for it. You can guess which programs these were.

You missed the point. Our program found out about the rule changes when everybody else did. The players already in our program that met the age cutoff were placed on the WS team...as evident by the different helmets. If your program chose to do a grade-based approach to the now age-based tournament that's your director's decision but don't go crying because a few programs adapted to the changes. The fact that certain teams were able to adapt successfully shows that they've had young, talented players in their program.

As a Canadian who has played in us tournaments for 5 years. The age situation in the us has been to say the least unclear. Grade based tournaments only lead to cheating. Age based makes it simple either you are an 03 or an 02. If its an 03 tourney then you play that. If you don't start school on time you surely don't get the advantage of playing in the same age class. that seems totally screwed up. As for the WSYL our team has played igloo for two years now and have been killed each time and they are a very good team but here is a little secret. 13 of our kids are going to play in the wsyl next year because that is the age requirement so look out igloo 2022 because I guess we should have been playing you instead.

No one plays up in a grade based tournament. You play with your age. That is what makes it fair. No more hold backs.

Completely agree. It's a step in the right direction and if youth lacrosse ever goes aged based, hopefully like hockey with birth year) kids will be finding themselves in different groupings. Teams, clubs and coaches chose to adapt to new rules, which were given with plenty of notice. Some chose to adapt, some chose to stay firm with their team. You can't blame anyone for their choices. The way a team or club reacted may have caused families to confirm how much they want to stay or why they may need to find a new team, but this has nothing to do with manipulated advantages. Rules do change- look how much change there has been in the last 7-8 yrs in lacrosse alone. The WSYL did change and I suspect they will tweak them some more as the tournament grows each year, but no club is in charge or given preferential treatment over another. This accusation is coming from parents feeling insecure or slighted. The rules are fair across the board.

Hate to say it but the foreigner sees this more clearly than anyone else. They are right to get the sport focused on age based as grade based leaves too much room for cheating. WS only shortcoming was that they should have delayed implementation for a year so everyone could understand the rules. Whatever the cutoff date is, as long as it is reasonable and everyone knows it, doesn't really matter.

That's funny because Canadians are the biggest abusers of the grade based system out there. Edge makes no attempt to hide the fact that their kids are all a year older due to their PG year.

This would be another great example of why recruiting may be best classified as AGE based and not GRADE year.

In Canada, there are no hold backs, or kids repeating a grade, or starting school late because they were born after a specific date. Doesn't matter if you are born Jan 1st or Dec 30th of 'X' year, you all start school the same year.

Age based recruiting seems to be the easiest, fairest and most accurate way to evaluate talent and competition. Apples to Apples.

Age based recruiting would eliminate hold backs, repeats, etc and ultimately

you were correct up to the pt where you referred to age based recruiting. ALL college coaches are looking to fill a grade so at some pt they don't care about what age you are but what grad class you are. I say age based until high school

Fair, i think once you reach HS, GRADE/CLASS matters, as ultimately that's what a coach needs to know, you are a 2017/2018, etc. And AGE based system in Middle school/youth will ensure make sure that kids are competing against similar aged kids on a more level playing field.

No then the holdbacks still win. Age based is best barometer. Let the recruiters ask the coach what grade/class the player is based on his skill on the field.

And remember, you can always play up... and like our parents did... praised those truely gifted who could meet or exceed that challenge. Talk about xceeding their age group... 2 8th grade attacks lighting up the cages... Go gettem boys.

College coaches could care less the age of kids they are recruiting by grade, if a kid or two are slightly older for their grade the college looking at these games or any tourney is totally recruiting by the year of graduation. Every tourney should play by their graduation year period.

Disagree. With early recruiting the holdback may look better dominating younger players as a freshman but may not look great compared to their on age peers. Age based tournaments with graduation years denoted can give a better insight as to how the players truly stack up against other players their age. For some, not all, of the holdbacks they might not look so studly.