BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) BOYS PAL League

our coach is tough, but I'm fine with that. Our team has gotten better and better each year. The only reason I'm glad its coming to an end is the conflict. PAL coaches resent you not coming to go to travel practices/games, and travel coaches get annoyed that your not dedicating yourself to the tourney team. Kids want to do both, but parents AND kids both feel the pressure of not attending one. It should not be that way. PAL is 2 months, let the kids play PAL without having the travel pressure. Our PAL coach has practices 3 days a week and game on sunday, so he gets a good run for the week. Just my thoughts.

totally agree with above post. My sons play on high level travel teams and wish the travel directors would give it a break for the 2 months PAL is in session so the kids don't feel the conflict and they can develop with their own classmates... would make everyone's life easier.

Probably a better question for my local PAL director but what the heck why not get this thread's view on this. So the coaches on my 4th graders team I think are fine, but their philosophy definitely is win first (of course they don't come outright and say it), which means if it's a close game, some kids are lucky to get any minutes. My understanding is that this is against the spirit of what PAL is supposed to be. Am I wrong with this line of thinking? I mean look I get it, better players get more minutes, but to have kids not play at all, or just 2 minutes seems wrong. Let me know if I'm off base. Thanks

Its PAL, the lowest level of lax. All kids should play equal in PAL games. If its a tournament team outside of PAL games--all bets are off, play to win. I am a director and a coach and that is how we do it. If a kid doesn't come to practice--different story, his playing time may be affected.

Does anyone know of any summer leagues or clinics for PAL/town teams (2nd grade) in central/eastern Suffolk? Not much on the other threads.
Thanks.

For PAL...for 4th grade... you are correct. The purpose is to still expose ALL kids to game concepts and split time evenly. That is the perfect world scenario. Do we live in a perfect world, where everything that is supposed to happen does? No.

Your PAL director will give you the most specific answer for your town and how they approach things. Many will say "Yes, we split time and/or teams evenly" and many of those towns then churn out deep talent at higher grades as kids mature at a different rate. Most important thing at this age (and even younger) is practice & game reps. Very easy to coach the most "natural athlete" when they are young, but some of the shining stars at the HS/college level may be the bottom of the roster kids now, or potentially haven't picked up a stick yet. It's not a surprise that towns that follow this are consistently ranked among the best HS programs on LI

Other organizations say they split equally, and do the exact opposite. And you can see that right away and it is unfortunate when coaches don't give attention to the full roster. For PAL, we're all paying the same amount. PAL isn't designed to be club lacrosse. It is still about learning.

My boys are lucky enough to not be in one of these towns. If we were, my younger son would be on the fast track, whereas my older guy would have been given no attention and left to flounder until he ultimately gave up. But with the attention of his PAL coaches thru the years (and some at home practice with me & some clinics along the way) he has become a 10th grade Varsity starter in a top-level high school program with a realistic shot at playing D1 or D2.

Listen, I get it. Everyone wants to win but some towns identify winning differently. I haven't heard of many towns that tout that their 4th grade PAL team went undefeated......but LI/state championships are counted!!

Good luck to your son
And I hope you don't get bashes on here for asking a normal question

Contact the ESM LAX director. They are running a summer league

Thanks, I sent them an email on their website.

Greatly appreciate your input. I've been coaching town youth sports (not lacrosse) at this age and below for several years now and my personal philosophy at this age is everyone plays. Yes sometimes the minutes favor the better players, but everyone plays. I would have expected PAL to to share the same (sounds like they do).

PAL does! They have written guidelines. Its up to the directors to enforce with their coaches and to get feedback from all the parents to make sure that is how it is playing out. Of course there are aberrations, but on the whole you want to strive for equal time.

most towns have at least two teams. Thus one should be a more competitive team and the other more a learning team. Some of the boys want to play with a more competitive group while the boys who are still learning can develop with lots of pt. I think this is the way to go. Thus in 4th grade they have A/B/C/D divisions.

You are incorrect. The divisions are strictly so that PAL can match teams up based on last year's records so there are fewer lopsided games. The only time there should be an "a" team is fifth grade and above IF THE TOWN CHOOSES TO ENTER THEMBINTO THIS DIVISION. This, in my opinion divides a town into the "us" and "them". It's not good for the community, it's not good for the boys. The only thing it is good for is to stroke egos. If you want to be in an A team then play travel.

totally agree with this

I can see how this could happen. I always viewed the young PAL years as more learning focused and kids getting to play with their friends as opposed to trying to win. "Win first" can be done at the travel level in my opinion

So true, absolutely divides into the haves and have nots. The resources are not the same for all teams.

come on guys...its not the pros but the whole object of sport is to win! Compete! Stop with the baby stuff. I said the kids that are still developing should play in the lower division with other teams that are at the same level There is nothing wrong with that. Lets the more developed players play in a more competitive division. Everyone wins! Otherwise you'll discourage good players from even bothering with PAL.

What division is this in? Not that it matters but It would make more sense in an A division.
I love the 4th grade PAL coaches that believe they are coaching a D1 team in a championship game. Even sadder is coaches in B or C divisions not equally playing their kids while they are running up the score or playing for a blowout/shutout. I don't think PAL gives you anything for going undefeated in 4th grade PAL lacrosse. You just turn 10 year-olds away from lacrosse. But Baseball and Soccer will thank you.

4th grade soccer , 4th grade football, even CYO basketball is competitive, why do people have a problem with Lax?

As a coach and director, I have seen entire teams with all travel kids in lower divisions. Then when asking the coach of that team or even worse the PAL league you get, " This is where they put us." And, " Well they asked to be put there and sorry to hear that happened." So I am happy that your travel team is playing in the 4th division and goes undefeated!

The Towns that run true balanced teams all the way through NCPAL are some of the strongest Varsity programs on LI. If your town runs NCPAL with a A/C structure win at all cost model you will have a weak Varsity team and barely be able to field a JV and MS teams. PAL victories mean nothing....State Championships go to the towns that balance the youth programs. Let the better kids learn to play with their friends and most importantly learn how to make the kids around them better. There is nothing better than seeing one of my better players consistently make the correct feed to a kid that is wide open. It doesn't matter that the kid may not catch the ball. What matters is that the correct lacrosse play was made.

Agreed!

No problem with Lax. PAL Lacrosse's purpose is developmental. CYO basketball and travel soccer have tryouts and is not developmental. PAL has its purpose, if you don't like it, don't have your son play it.

You are so right Mr. LarryMiller, farmingdales 2011 state champs were split talent wise in pal rite down the middle from the getgo. end result says it all

Wish BOTC had a "like" button for this post.

Win now, lose later. Develop now, win later

PAL is competitive because it's based on children playing sports. Football and lax have different divisions so that stronger players play in stronger division and weaker players play in weaker divisions. That's the model. And it works. Most towns have evaluations starting in 4th grade (for many players, this is year 4) to allow the more advanced kids to play other advanced kids while allowing the newer/developmental players to compete against similar players. This model gives every player an opportunity to play and enjoy the game while enhancing/advancing their skill set (regardless of where that level is). There is no relationship between PAL and travel. They are mutually exclusive. Some parents don't want to put their children on travel teams. Some children don't want to play on them. some can't afford an extra $4000 per child. Are there travel teams for football? No. So, by your argument, those kids should have no competitive outlet to play the sport? That makes no sense. Sports are competitive. Maybe you should just enroll your child in clinics. That seems like what you're looking for.

You're referring to kids who started playing PAL 16 years ago. You don't think the lax climate has changed in the last 16 years? Did they win 12 Championships? Because by your logic, that system should churn out repetitive winners, not just one year. Does Smithtown have balanced teams? Ward Melville? West Islip? Connetquot? Manhasset? Bayport? I'll answer for you. No, No, No, No, No and No. And they never have. Spare me you singular antiquated example. Lacrosse has become even more competitive in the last 15 years because everyone is hoping to get that elusive scholarship. PAL has evolved. The club scene has to. Maybe you should realize that.

Thank you I am just telling it the way we do it in our town. Every year someone brings up the great idea of having "A" teams..."that the better kids deserve to play with the best". This usually happens at the 3rd grade level. Fortunately we are able to say no and move on with a balanced system. It works trust me,

West Islip Girls & Boys balance teams for NCPAL.

PAL programs are run by parents. If you have a town with parents who played the sport themselves, the PAL program will be strong. What town PAL has input from the Varsity coach?

THe probelm with PAL is when you had a few towns stacking their teams and ripping through PAL leagues. The Top division was formed a few years ago for town that insisted upon doing that but then guess what, half those towns opted out of that division and went to divivion 2. So despite PAL's effort to keep each division competitive the plan was circumvented by overzealous town directors that only cared about winning. The problem with going A/B too early (4th grade?) is that the skills are not developed enough for the B kids yet to be able to carry a team. If a twon only puts out 1 team or has a tryout then PAL should mandate that team goes to D1. As long as there is a fair outlet for all the kids to play, then do it how your town wants but play in the appropriate division.

I'm from WI. That's not true, despite what they try to make you think.

Their teams are not split down the middle now...2024 has an A team and a C team. 2023 is A and D. 2022 is A and C.

Let's not get crazy here...the Dalers split based on talent

What's not true?

Riddle me this... Why does West Islip play in Nassau PAL?

Massapequa

There is nothing to win in pal lacrosse. These coaches hide behind the notion of I'm trying to win the game as opposed to playing everyone equally(at least until last 5 minutes). The biggest sin apalogize coach can commit is turning a kid off from a sport. I have been coaching pal basketball for 10 years and I think I'm the only idiot that doesn't favor my son ansd plays everyone equally. Lose the ego guys. You are only coaching because u have more time than other parents. That doesn't give you the right to play your son whole game and have him run up middle and get annihilated and lose ball constantly. Also , kids who make practice should automatically start games and be rewarded. Kids who have soccer , baseball , travel should not be rewarded by starting especially when coach is only a dad and isn't qualified to judge a kids talent in 8th grade or under. Pal is a learning league. If your first object is to win the game get a travel team with 5 of your friends and their sons and get your butts kicked in watered down travel leagues. PAL has been ruined as coaches are in it to showcase their sons who stink. Btw my son stinks too. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be taught or turned off by unqualified coaches

Wrong, wrong, wrong.... I am a current PAL coach for one of those towns that you mentioned. In the early years of PAL (3rd/4th grade), we split talent evenly across our 2 teams.

Yes, we have a tournament team to offer the more skilled better competition. There are evaluations/tryouts for that team....but that is not PAL

For the same reason most Suffolk towns (on the Nassau border) play for NCPAL, they would rather drive to an away game at Farmingdale or Massapequa rather than drive an hour to EasT Hampton, Shoreham, Riverhead, etc.

Garden City

PAL in Garden City. I have sons that play in PAL. I am involved and the GCHS head coach has never been involved with any of my kids greades. I wish he would be involved volunteering his time for all grades because he is a great coach and great with kids but he cant because his program is still in the playoffs for lax. GC has balanced team in 2,3 and 4th grade. 5th and 6th grade they tryout for A,B,C. The PAL program is great for ALL involved. The girls PAL program is great also.