BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2016 Men's College Lacrosse Season D1, D2, and D3

How do you know? If your kid is not on the team you have no idea. Memories with your teammates is what matters. The brotherhood will last forever.

What a disaster. Poster child program for early recruiting debacle after debacle. Poorly coached. Seemingly not motivated if body language in the second half is any indicator. This is what happens when you recruit kids early and have been told how wonderful they are since they were 14. They have to blow that thing up and start over.

They're honoring the 2006 NCAA title team before the game next week. I wonder how many of those guys will have the stomach to stay and watch the game against Duke.

You must be kidding. UVA has recruited well? According to the bloggers, sure. According to the club and prep hype machine, yes. Based on what you see in the program? Absolutely not. The Parcells Rule: evaluate what you can see. This UVA team is smaller, less athletic and has fewer players hungrier to get better now. That reflects 100% on how the coaches recruit an then develop players and a culture in the program. Remember when all UVa middies looked like Emery or Tucker? That wasn't a long time ago. The wheels are completely off now.

I have a kid on the team. I know. When graduating seniors say they have no good memories. Don't want to come back for alumni games and won't respond to communications from the coach. I think that says a lot.

any word on the new NCAA policy on Satellite camps for football and if that rule applies to lacrosse.


Essentially the NCAA said prospect camps for a school can only be on campus. Representatives for a school can not be in attendance at another schools camp or cant hold a camp off campus.

Where can we get some clarification

That's the most fabulous assessment of a team that's won ONE game in the ACC since these seniors started in the program. Sure players have comraderie with each other and have gained friendships. But when you've worn that uniform for 4 years and the program has done absolutely nothing in the sport as a program that isn't a very good feeling for anyone. Sure, alumni events are fun. Sure, the alums are supportive of the players and will help them with job searches. That's what the guys do. But this program is an empty shell of what it once was. Saying they have some good players is no different now than saying Towson has some guys who can play. It doesn't mean anything.

Not sure what the Towson reference is, they're ranked #9 and UVA is unranked... Here's the difference, UVA has been recruiting 20 year old freshman hold backs and 9th graders for a while now. It's not panning out. Kids who've been playing down for years are getting their worlds rocked when they have to play up against grown men, and the superstar 9th graders are not the superstar college freshmen. Think they are missing on recruits more often than not. Do a little research on these top rated kids in each grade from a few years ago, see how many have become All-Americans? See how many are even still playing or playing at the school that recruited them. I think you'd be surprised at the results.

I wouldn't be surprised at the results at all!! Any college coach that gives a verbal commitment to and 8th/9th grade star is IMO totally crazy, especially if the kid is a holdback. At this age a year or two in age can really make a kid look bigger/faster/stronger but that does not translate into a super athlete. All that means is a kid is beating up on younger kids. I seriously don't get it, I guess maybe some coaches will decide it isn't worth it when they lose their jobs because of poor recruiting decisions

I'd be shocked if we don't see a few major Coaching vacancies this year. A retirement or two, and a firing or two. Needs to happen.

Clearly Starsia and Breschi have to go. Virginia looked awful against Duke today, and Carolina got embarrassed by Cuse yesterday. With the talent both of those schools are able to attract they should be in the thick of it every year.

That's the issue, the talent is not what they thought it would be.. Too many other kids out there, just as talented and more so. Look at Penn State, on par with MD and HOP, took both to one goal games. Rutgers on the rise. That never would have happened just 3 or 4 years ago. Just wait, 3 or 4 years from now things will be all over the place. You'll see many more old guard teams other than Virginia unranked. It's going to happen. You will see more Ives, CAA, NEC and America East teams in the top 20.

UVA lacrosse: what a spectacular disaster. From an early recruiting poster child for the worse to a program that keeps pointing to good effort and patches of seeming competitive in games they are losing.

Time for a coaching change and a total culture and attitude change in that program. This is the low.

UVA lacrosse: what a spectacular disaster. From an early recruiting poster child for the worse to a program that keeps pointing to good effort and patches of seeming competitive in games they are losing.

Time for a coaching change and a total culture and attitude change in that program. This is the low.

Gotta love Rutgers beating Hop! So many top recruits going to Hop over the years and this is the outcome?? Keep up the great recruiting strategy. Really working for you?

Gotta love Rutgers beating Hop! So many top recruits going to Hop over the years and this is the outcome?? Keep up the great recruiting strategy. Really working for you?

To be fair, Hop went to the final four last year and came within a butt end save of going to OT in the semis with Maryland. They will make the tourney again this year and have the talent to beat anyone. Rutgers is improved and their goalie stood on his head last night. I get your point about the early recruiting but I dont think that stands up here with Hop. Drexel is a notorious late recruiter and how does that work out for them? Denver is a notorious early recruiter and how is that going for them? I understand the backlash against early recruiting but lets deal in reality.

To be even more fair, last year was Hop's only FF in the last decade and they needed no small miracle late season run to even make the NCAA tournament. Then they got the gift of playing their round one game against UVA, the ER train wreck poster child. If you coach a program like Hop or UVA and can't be competitive to be in or near a FF each year, something is off. Denver is off the charts because their coaching staff recognizes Canadian and Native talent and they have the admissions office latitude to recruit that way. Or am I not dealing with reality?

Loyola's championship team was the MIAA leftovers group. Denver didn't win with ER last year. The Denver recruits early narrative is a bit of a myth --- they can roster 80 if they wanted. Title IX room up the wazoo at Denver. So taking 5-7 kids early in the 2018 class for example does not constitute a big chunk of the flexibility Tierney has. Denver wins with 5-7 Canadian ringers, the few Native kids they can get through admissions and then make due with the US kids who can adapt to a quick box style QUICKLY to fill their lines out. Most US kids don't "get it" quickly to play the game fast with a shallow pocket where carrying the ball is a sin. The ones who do become fabulous college players at Denver. None of that owes any credit at all to early recruiting.

Sorry if you think your son being recruited in 8th grade imputes that he will be an exceptional college player. We are all seeing now this is not nearly as high a correlation as people believed a year or two ago. Hopkins is not demonstrably more skilled, athletic or loaded with lacrosse IQ over Rutgers now. They lost twice to Rutgers and neither game was a fluke. And Rutgers is not a top 10 team this year. Deal with it.

Question, does JH program have latitude in acceptance if recruit doesn't meet grade standards? Could this be a reason why some of the powerhouse programs ie UVA,JH and some others are not as dominant at they used to be? I know in football a great deal of flexibility is given at the big time programs, was wondering if this exists on the lax field .

Hop and UVA coaches have a lot of latitude with admissions at their respective schools. Lax is the only sport of any real measure at Hop, and If a recruit misses admissions, the academic record would need to be poor. UVA is a big enough university (13.5K undergrads) that sports recruit preferences are pretty material there as well. Bottom line, lax is also a sport wherein the demographic is more toward the prep school strata were kids in the sport tend to be on the higher side of academic quality versus football or men's basketball at big scholarship schools.

The relative blight at Hop and UVA over the last few years is not the fault of these coaches not having all that is asked for. Both programs have plainly recruited too early and too poorly and this is starting to show up. For every Shack or Tinney seems to be half a dozen whiffs. Hop and UVa have less depth and athleticism than any other ACC or B1G program now, with the possible exception of UNC...the 3rd ER horseman.

Loyola's championship team was the MIAA leftovers group. Denver didn't win with ER last year. The Denver recruits early narrative is a bit of a myth --- they can roster 80 if they wanted. Title IX room up the wazoo at Denver. So taking 5-7 kids early in the 2018 class for example does not constitute a big chunk of the flexibility Tierney has. Denver wins with 5-7 Canadian ringers, the few Native kids they can get through admissions and then make due with the US kids who can adapt to a quick box style QUICKLY to fill their lines out. Most US kids don't "get it" quickly to play the game fast with a shallow pocket where carrying the ball is a sin. The ones who do become fabulous college players at Denver. None of that owes any credit at all to early recruiting.

Sorry if you think your son being recruited in 8th grade imputes that he will be an exceptional college player. We are all seeing now this is not nearly as high a correlation as people believed a year or two ago. Hopkins is not demonstrably more skilled, athletic or loaded with lacrosse IQ over Rutgers now. They lost twice to Rutgers and neither game was a fluke. And Rutgers is not a top 10 team this year. Deal with it.

Never said I agree or identify with early recruiting, I just think its a way overblown issue. I find the people screaming the loudest are the ones whose sons did not get recruited early. My son was not recruited early, nor did he deserve to be but I dont understand why people want to blame ER for some of the plights of the bigger teams but its just not based in any fact or reality. ER is a relatively new phenomenon and some of these teams have been struggling for years. UNC hasnt been to a final four in forever and JHU has been to one in the last 8 years. The reality as it is today is that all the top teams recruit early, some are successful, some arent, its that simple.

Interesting to note that Petro was interviewed by Carc last year and went on and on about how he watches as much film as he can find on opposing teams & players over and over. He can never prepare enough for a game this way. But then he goes blank answering why he offers a kid just out of 8th grade based on a few 20 minute halves of club lacrosse. At least he was honest with the answer (or non answer). ER seems to be like betting all you've got every time with just two hole cards known. Even if some coaches have a great eye for talent, the probabilities math just renders the bets to be impossible to sustain over a long period. Why decline having the most info? I believe that Petro could easily call committed juniors before their senior year and fill out a class from scratch rather easily. Mid major schools can't pull that off, but Hop, UVA, UNC, Cuse all could. So why don't they? That's the question nobody has a great answer to.