BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Is that right Crab dad, keep crying? You are part of the cesspool Crabs organization and feel it is ok to have a crap load (10+) holdbacks on the Crabs 2020 team and feel proud about it?
You are just as much a part of the problem as the leader, Ryan McClernan, the top pos.
I hope your son at some point sees what kind or organization you have him in and what a low life stance you took for him to play youth lacrosse. At that point you can keep crying.

Will be nice to see the chickens come home to roost when the switch to age based teams happens. The scourge of reclassifying has really damaged youth lacrosse. Sad.

You do realize that the on age kids will just come back to crabs if this does happen.

Though judging by the Crabs tryouts information on their site for next year, they are not switching to age based so I doubt anyone else is either.

If it does go to age base lacrosse, Crabs will then have just average teams, nothing special. They can't field a strong team without holdbacks, that has been proven several times.

Actually, I believe that the tournament organizers may play a bigger role in enforcing the age groups next year. They may enforce the younger ages and allow the older ages to be grade based BUT WHO KNOWS. Hogan and Beach lax only put in grade-based divisions last year, so just another change but next year will be ...? The HOCO league could also make a difference by announcing their guidelines during the summer. It is going to be interesting next year what clubs are going to do. I have a feeling that the clubs do not know themselves.

As far as crabs, the landscape of club lacrosse is different than a few years ago. There are a lot of clubs (about 40 clubs in 2020) to choose from, so the top players have a choice of where to play. Crabs has good younger teams but without the number of holdbacks, they do not dominate as they did in the past.

If most club teams use US Lacrosse insurance, then US Lacrosse should be able to dictate terms. Follow the US Lacrosse guidelines for safety reasons or find other insurance. I wouldn't want to be another insurance company out of step with US Lacrosse age based safety recommendations. Seems like a field day for the lawyers. Regardless the recommendations are being phased in.

Crabs never had younger teams in the past. They just started a 5th grade team when things went grade based. Prior to that they started with U13

Exactly where has it been proven? Don't say WSYL. Taking kids off the existing team and leaving them with a partial team is different than if the tryouts were based on age and that's how the team was put together. When teams were age based, when exactly was it proven that Crabs couldn't field a strong team? Crabs will field a strong team regardless the rules. I think THAT is what has been proven several times.

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If it does go to age base lacrosse, Crabs will then have just average teams, nothing special. They can't field a strong team without holdbacks, that has been proven several times. [/quote]

not true, they would still pull some of the better players in the area. they just wouldn't be the top team, Looney's and FCA Blue would be able to roll over them and probably Hawks.

Sorry Crab dad, but you are completely wrong. Stop making excuses, Crabs without holdbacks are just average. And, there are lots of kids who are good, on elite teams that want nothing to do with Crabs. These kids talk, they don't want to be known as cheaters.

Ok. You're right. Crabs was just a terrible program before the switch was made to grade based. What was your excuse for why your kid lost to Crabs when it was age based?

No excuse, because when it was age based, his team never lost to Crabs. Sorry to disappoint you.

Lets follow that logic on this, can we? You cant just say take the holdbacks off Crabs and they would be just average. If you took all the holdbacks off Crabs you should take the holdbacks off every team. And assuming you took the all holdbacks off every team the right thing to do would be to re-hold tryouts. So if we re-held tryouts then every elite club would have open roster spots. (BTW-- those awful holdbacks need to find something else to do anyway -- they are ruining the world) And if every elite club had open roster spots then the best non holdback kids would come flocking to Crabs tryouts. And if all the top non holdbacks came flocking to Crabs then Crabs would re-load (again). And if the Crabs reloaded again then all the angry dads would still be angry...so whats the point???

I think the problem is someone currently playing for Crabs thinks they know the history of club lacrosse just because Crabs has had some amazing teams. Yes, they have. So have other Clubs. Currently, the only Crab team they may be the best in Maryland is 2020 and that will be determined in the next 8 weeks. Besides that, Crabs has some really bad teams in the younger ages and some decent teams in high school ages but it's amusing how Crabs fans think they are the only game in town. Maryland is one of the strongest lacrosse states for a reason. There's good lacrosse players everywhere. Don't fool yourself that because a kid where's a Crabs Jersey then he's a stud. There are currently 4-5 kids on Crabs 2020 team that aren't standouts and wouldn't play at any of the other elite club teams. Keep it in perspective. Crabs is good but so are many other clubs. Integrity is the question being raised. Crabs lost theirs at Beach Lax. Can't have kids play 2019 one weekend and 2020 the next. That crossed the line and showed RMs true colors. Win at all costs.

The point is that kids would be playing against kids their own age. Duh.

The point is most non holdback kids would not try out for Crabs. They are happy with their elite team, and want nothing to do with Crabs, Crabs reputation is well known.
Plus, if all the elite 2020 teams for example, had to move out their holdbacks, most elite teams would lose about 3 to 4 holdbacks while Crabs 2020 would loose 10 holdbacks plus 2 double holdbacks.
And to your point about dads being angry, you are way off point. In todays youth lacrosse world Crabs is not respected and many if not most parents would not want their sons to be associated with Crabs. Plus, as previously mentioned, kids talk, they know what Crabs is about and want nothing to do with them.
You are just too hung up on the misguided thought that Crabs is the best and greatest, with and without holdbacks but the truth of the matter is that without holdbacks Crabs is average at best and would remain average after their tryouts to replace their boatload of holdbacks.

What Crab Dad is missing..The landscape has changed in the last few years. Yes the Crabs as recently a few years ago had some outstanding U13 and U15 teams. That is the only youth teams the Crabs fielded. RM has now gone so far with this disgusting holdback issue it has effected how people look at Crabs. That has happened in last two to three years.
If Crabs went back to age base..Many parents would not go out for them as in the past. Many think the Crab Org is POS now .There is way to many teams out there now. In the past, it was limited if you were a great player...

We can sit here and speculate (hope) what may or may not happen when/if things go back to age base. My opinion is Crabs will still be strong and attractive to kids and parents because of their strong track record of sending players to D1 programs. You can't dispute this history. Therefore, love em or hate em they are a logical club to play for if you can make he team.

Then how do you explain the fact that there were 200 kids at tryouts for 2020? Probably around 125 for 2021. About 80 for 2022. Saw a lot of helmets of other clubs there. By your theory, all these kids were holdbacks since non-holdback kids won't try out for them now. You're kidding yourself if you really think the majority of people are disgusted with Crabs as you are. Most kids could care less and would still love to play for them

So you are telling me that out of 200 2020 kids they couldn't find 22-24 great players born the right age? Are you telling me that 10 plus 2019 aged kids trained by the Crabs weren't good enough for their own 2019 team and had to be put on 2020? Clearly something isn't right with the Crabs. If they are this amazing club, their players shouldn't need to be older, they should be able to field great on aged teams. This would go for any of the other clubs with more than the 1-2 kids that start school late- which I don't agree with either. It just makes me really question with all that supposed talent showing up why so many kids don't make their own teams and why they have to play younger and on top- why the Crabs can't find enough kids on age to make a talented team. Something must be off- no?

There should be a topic dedicated to the holdback conversation. Then you could go to that thread to b**** about it. Every thread in the Maryland forum seems to devolve into the holdback argument. I'm not a Crab dad, my kid plays for one of the irrelevant VA teams.

Totally agree....it is what it is. Everyone knows what the Crabs do and they are tainted for it. Time to move on.

There is a forum already - it is called the Crabs forum. We can all agree to move the holdback conversation there so we can discuss what matters in the other forums. Crabs do not matter. We know what they are. They know what they are.

Of course they could pick the 23 best on age kids and have a good team. That's kind of a stupid theory. The teams right now are grade based, so if the older kids are better, why are they keeping younger kids? When/If the rules change to age, they will keep the best 23 on age kids and still be good.

Other parents don't want to admit it, but for the most part, Crabs gets their pick of kids and the rest funnel down to the others. There are kids that stay loyal to their current teams, but I can tell you that there are a lot of helmets of other clubs at crabs tryouts. Someone will say that there are Crabs helmets at other clubs tryouts also which is true. But those kids are there as an insurance if they lose their spot.

Don't buy it. Why are the older kids not playing on their own teams then? Why are they allowing their kids to repeat grades?Why the trickle down affect if the kids are so good. Why are so many playing down and asked to repeat a grade? If YOU CAN play with your peers and you are so GREAT, then why repeat? There is absolutely NO reason to do so. It is grade based and if the kids are so good in each grade there is no reason to play down. If you have 200 kids that are trying out, you cannot tell me that you need kids to repeat a whole year of school ,transfer to another school, leave friends, etc., but they are so good. Talent does not play down. Kids play down because it brings the club money in the form of wins because they play teams with younger kids. Period. We all know that if you could be number 1 with on aged kids, you would not bring older kids in to play. Not a stupid theory at all.

HOCO

Loonies 11/Hawks 10 final

Well done Hawks! Close games in the 2020 elite bracket today. FCA won 8-7 over 91 Force in last minutes of game. Crabs/Next Level game report? Should be an exciting few weeks and could not ask for a better experience for all the boys with games this tight. Will be any team any week with this lineup.

Anyone know the score of Crabs/Next Level game? It was 2-0 Crabs in the first 5 minutes. then I left.
Got a chance to see the Crabs players up close prior to game, without their helmets on. It is quickly very obvious many and I mean many of Crabs players are much older than 13/14. They are 15 and a few close to 16.
Absolutely obnoxious the crap Ryan McClernan pulls and just out and out violates the grade base system. He should be banned from youth lacrosse simply for his lack of ethics.
He is a total POS and I am surprised that schools like St Paul's, Loyola and even Boys Latin want to have any connection to him. Why be associated with a cheat.

Wow...nice job Hawks!

Hoco

Fca 8/ Team 91 force 7

Crabs defeated Next Level 10/1. All the other elite 2020 games today were close, one point margin. Except for Crabs, who with their 10 holdbacks and 2 double holdbacks just pile it on.

This is what Ryan McClernan wants, have an older/bigger team so he can dominate others, making him and his team look like they are great. Wonder what his team would look like without the holdbacks and replaced with age appropriate players. I would bet a much different outcome.

It is clearer and clearer that those involved with this sport including RM, the private schools and leagues like HOCO are not in it for the kids but purely for the $$$. None of them care about the kids. None. Wonder if the Crabs players with their learner permits and the FCA defenseman with his learners all drove their parent to the games. They are all close to 16. Pathetic.

Sloppy play by all teams except Crabs. You can tell they put the hours in. They will win 2020 easy if other teams play like they did today. FCA and team 91 gave ball up 10 times each with easy missed passes and bad clears. Loonies and Hawks don't seem to have the speed and athleticism.

Kids repeat grades because their parents want them to, not because the club does.

Exactly how is he "gaming" the system? The league is grade based. Those kids are in 8th grade. Where should they be playing?

That's funny that you think 10-1 is piling on. It could have been much worse.

Crabs were sloppy in the first quarter. They were only up 2-0. The other elite teams were all close because they were playing teams of a similar caliber. Crabs will not have the same success with any of the other elite teams. They will see there fair share of close wins, but will not see another spread like today.

. You either just don't get it or you are a Crab dad and trying to defend Crabs "gaming" the system. Yes, gaming the system. True, it is grade base but the intent was not to have a team of holdbacks and even 2 double holdbacks. As soon as it went to grade base Ryan M figured a way to create a team of mostly holdbacks, like his 2020 team. This not the spirit of grade base lacrosse. They are in the 8th grade, but most are 15 and a few close to 16. You need to go thru these forums and see what Crabs is like, what people thing of them and how they operate.

. Ok Crab dad. Ryan M never lets up, never. I have watched him for 5+ years and he will run up the score as much as he can. This is what you can do when you have an 8th grade team of 15 and 16 year old holdbacks. Ok, now your turn to try and deny this and push back. No one will believe you, we all know how Crabs operates.

It was obvious Next Level was playing to try and keep the score as close as possible. They were stalling in the second half while down by 8 goals. Strange.