BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

THe holding back strategy only works in a small window of time; when the holdback has a physical advantage over his younger competition. This ends once the younger kids catch up physically. So, if it hasn't benefitted the player in the year he stays back, you probably wasted time and money.

Just my observation.

Your theory is ok except for the IQ advantage and stick skills. Most freshman/sophomores are clueless. It helps having a hold back.

Most competitive and professional athletes peak between the ages of 26-28, hence the closer you are to that "age" the closer you are to your peak. Logic dictates that the holdback has an advantage all the way through, although that gat becomes smaller in a relative sense as players get older. (Simplified...If you are 13 playing against 12 year olds= 12/13, as a 26 year old vs 25= 25/26 the advantage is less, draw the pie diagrm if you don't see it). It does make a difference over a protracted period of time.

All of this stuff evens out by junior year of high school..Just because a kid holds back it doesn't make them a great lacrosse player . Let's be honest if your kid can't handle the stick at this age then he won't get that much better. He may be able to play Div III but not 1.The cream will rise to the top . Some kids have peaked already , some haven't . Worry about your own kid.Every parent will do what's best for their kid and in some cases what's best for the parents ego.

Cadets go Prep for academic reasons, never for the benefit of a sports team. JHU is loaded with older kids, reclassers, and very early recruits. They barely got by Navy, which is a good team. However, it seems to me the recruiting strategy employed by them is not baring the fruit they expected. It is working to the benefit of many other schools. Parity is coming like a freight train to D1 lacrosse. The number of kids playing HS lax has doubled in the last five years. In that same time frame you have 6 or 7 new D1 programs. Point is, the D1 programs now have twice the number of top players to choose from. I know it's February, but OSU barely survives Furman a program in year three, BU another program in year three beats Providence and JHU barely gets by Navy. By the way, where was Denver five years ago? It's a sign of things to come.

Love it! Will be an exciting year. Expect upsets. The year of the underdogs, and it's great!

NAPS and MAPS are provided to students who are not prepared for the academic rigors of USMA and USNA. That being said, many of those "at risk" students are athletic recruits. All schools that provide a 13th year or "prep" year are doing the same. I believe it is completely logical for anyone to consider it. I do not believe that attending a prep school is remotely similar to being held back as a eight grader so that you are a bigger and faster athlete that can compete against younger players and gain a advantage. Student-athletes that attend prep school compete against kids their own age throughout the high school recruiting process. Lastly, I am not a JHU fan but people screaming about the demise of that program have already forgotten that they were playing on Memorial Day weekend last year.

Did you forget that Hop barely had a winning record late in the season and was a squeaker of a win against Penn State away from being out of the B1G and NCAA tournaments? I give Petro a lot of credit for navigating through a very difficult season off and on the field. That said, these aren't the good old days. Yes, they made it to a FF game last year. But for a revered program they have done little to none in past 6-7 years. That's a long time. UVA has been a doormat in the ACC for 4 years running now. UNC, well...let's not even pile on out of politeness.

Early recruiting malaise contributes at least some to this. A better indictment of ER would be poor results this year and next...the 2015s and 2016s were the first of the real pre-mature recruits classes.

Very good points regarding the teams you mention. The early recruiting thing I have to disagree with. Early recruiting has been going on for a while. When everyone (common folk) gets wind of something it means it has been going on for a while. I think that its been going on for a very long time it just has become more evident and noticeable.It also became more in your face with all the websites and coverage lacrosse is getting. I also feel it is because parents started bragging and then every early recruit started having it posted wherever and whenever they could. This is the age of social and digital media where news travels at the speed of light across the world. Just my two cents. I also feel that the good ole boy teams are fighting a very difficult battle because there are so many programs and kids playing the game. 20-30 years ago the teams were Hopkins, North Carolina, Syracuse, and Princeton who won the majority of national titles. So in a 21 year span from 1978-1998 only 4 teams won the national championship. The expansion of the game is going to create more parody. That is why roster size is growing. I wish the scholarships would reflect the growth of the game.

Hopkins 6
Carolina 4
Cuse 6
Princeton 5

1998 Princeton (14-1)
1997 Princeton (16-0)
1996 Princeton (14-1)
1995 Syracuse (13-2)
1994 Princeton (14-1)
1993 Syracuse (12-2)
1992 Princeton (13-2)
1991 North Carolina (16-0)
1990 Syracuse* (13-0)
1989 Syracuse (14-1) R
1988 Syracuse (15-0)
1987 Johns Hopkins (10-3)
1986 North Carolina (11-3)
1985 Johns Hopkins (13-1)
1984 Johns Hopkins (14-0)
1983 Syracuse (14-1)
1982 North Carolina (14-0)
1981 North Carolina (12-0)
1980 Johns Hopkins (14-1)
1979 Johns Hopkins (13-0)
1978 Johns Hopkins (13-1)

Who are you talking about? Who is struggling? Why so much hate against a kid you don't know?

WRONG! the father is struggling. Still think I don't know them?

[quote=Anonymous]WRONG! the father is struggling. Still think I don't know them?

Did be tell you that?

WRONG! the father is struggling. Still think I don't know them?[/quote]

If you KNEW them, you would talk to them and not blog your feelings to the world. Man up and tell the father how you feel and don't hide behind this forum. That's what people that KNOW each other do.

Just wanted to update you guys on those damn cheating Canadians. Five verbally committed players.

Edge 2019
Hopkins (2 committed)
Denver
UNC
Albany

Right 16 yr old 2019s. Feel good about yourselves.

Nothing wrong with 2019s turning 16 this year. I'd be more concerned about a Crabs 2018 who is already 18 years old . Double reclass! But it's Edge "cheating" right?

Did not know that one. Lol that is real low

The only people who care about the injustice of all this are the parents of age appropriate kids who are either not being recruited or being recruited by teams that are not considered to be elite. No college coach really cares about age....they want the biggest, strongest kids and dont care (and actually prefer) that their players are 20 years old when they start freshman year. It is what it is......

My son is a 2018 and he just turned 16. Honestly I understand the paranoia but I doubt even the Crabs have a 2018 who is 18

True 2019s are 14 turning 15 this year.

Well I would challenge Ryan from the Crabs to come on here and dispute it. They have 18 year old 2018s. Unbelievable. Born in 99. You want the source of the reclass game? It started right there in Maryland with the Crabs not in Canada.

Can't play in MIAA if you're 19 fall of senior year, so...

Not all Crabs kids play MIAA ..so...

So where are they playing?

born in 99 means they are 16 or 17. In MD a kid born Sept - Dec 99 would be in his/her standard class if 2018 as the cut-off is Sept. Reclass happens and is a head shaker when done for lax but you are exaggerating.

IAC for DC, VA privates has the same rule. Couldn't happen in public right so where do these kids go? Or maybe the double holdback is a myth. More likely people refer to a kid born in Sept-Nov and does a hold back year, as a double hold back. Not really double. but since he would already be old for his normal grade, pretty bad form if not for purely academic/medical reasons. Such a kid could in fact be 2 years older than a kid in NY with a Nov bday, but not held back twice

The kids have to feel weird in school ..to go thru HS and be that much older then everyone else has to effect them psychologically.I feel bad because it's the parents that force these kids to do it.. Listen if your kid is good don't worry about the age difference . The cream will rise to the top, don't worry about kids verbally agreeing to a school it means nothing. The only kids that are 14-15 that commit are the ones who's parents went to a school or they have a connection to a school. These kids have no idea what they want to do yet at this age and any parent who tells you different is even more crazy. How does AF get kids to commit at this age? It's like the draft starts at age 14 instead of 18..Lets be real

That pretty much sums it up......spot on

Heldback before Kindegarten and then reclassifying is the common game. I know a kid personally who was a kindegarten holdback, he reclassed and is doing a PG year. Take one guess where hes committed too...... Duke!!!!!!

To say that a verbal commitment "means nothing" is foolish. The majority of commits actually do go on to attend the school they committed to. The majority of early commits are top players (at the time of commitment). To say that "the only kids that are 14-15 that commit are the ones who's parents went to a school or they have a connection to a school" is also foolish.

As far as parents being crazy... well that goes without saying. However, some on this site think that there is a magic time to commit. There is no perfect time and waiting until junior year will not somehow mean that kids will know what they they would like to study or what career path they would like to pursue.

The majority of schools engaged in early recruiting (boys & girls) are excellent schools that offer a variety of majors or fields of study. The top schools in the country are out there offering admission and or scholarship money. They are making these offers to the best players. Some will change their minds, some will not make the grades, some will not develop but, so what, who cares? It happens all the time things change it's no big deal.

I have an age appropriate freshman (2019 - June 2001 DOB) and if a school who we felt was a good fit said they would offer a spot in the 2020 class we would seriously consider a PG year (not sure about the reclass route).

And there it is, when I ask why Lacrosse doesn't go to an age based system like baseball, it's the 'business' of winning in D1 college lacrosse that dictates the status quo. Generally speaking in baseball, it benefits talented kids to play up 1-2 age levels while here in lacrosse 'playing down', or repeating is the way to be seen. Son's 2020 Summer Team will have 6 new kids this year who are all repeaters of 9th grade. As you say...it is what is.....

If you are a hockey fan, think about John Tavares of the NY Islanders. He is a star at the NHL level and was a phenom as a youth hockey player in Canada. So as a 16 year old he was good enough to play up with 18-19 year olds in junior hockey. What an uncommon idea in today's world where good players choose to further advance themselves by playing down.

My bad. What I meant to say was the Crab kid is a 98. Which means he is a 18 year old soph.

The difference in hockey and baseball if a very good to great player is to make it into the professional ranks as quickly as possible - monetary gain! In lacrosse the ideal end game is to go to a great school for lax/academics or academics/lax.

Yep and UNC got crushed by Hofstra, Hop lost to Loyola. While OSU got spanked by UMass. Hmmmmm??? Sooner or later these kids have to step up and play with the older kids. Looks like it's not working out too well. So go to UNC, major in Lax and sociology. OR.... Go to Hofstra, beat UNC soundly, major in Accounting, hang up the cleats and send your kids to the clinic run by the UNC grad. Them's the facts folks... As mother always used to say, "it all comes out in the wash"

Strange post . Seems like you are angry at the kid not the school for the early commit I assume. Are you sour your kid isn't getting any looks yet ?? I think a medical field major at Hop goes a long way.

Hey you're right. The alumni support for JHU lacrosse grads is drying up as a result of ER. What a tool

In the end the commits to the UNC and other schools most likely won't be playing for these same coaches either..They want to do away with the early commits because they realize the kids that are coming just aren't the top kids anymore and the top schools are paying the price while the other lower schools are reaping the benefit. Mom and Dad can't help the kids in college and they can't hide how they are playing. I for one have told my son he will not verbally commit .its way to early. I don't think I'm crazy , just know he is not ready to decide or go to a school because of a name

Ahhh...because you associate lax with academics then it's ok to play down (or repeat to play against younger competition to get noticed) The fact is most 'very good' American Hockey players look to play college hockey, and generally speaking the top 'hockey' schools are as good academically as those we usually associate with lax.

I'm sorry that's a bit of lax snobbery. Doesn't Stanford, UNC, Vanderbilt and Virginia have top baseball programs? They are pretty fair schools academically, and they also are all heavy early recruiters.....