BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Can you remind us what happened in Denver on National television against Crush? Playing age appropriate, Crabs 2020 is just another good team.

What was the score of the Crabs vs 91 game on 4th of July on national tv? Whittle bitty crabs couldn't compete without their holdbacks...wah wah wah.

From reading the above posters reply to your post doesn't seem he is crying at all, it seems apparent that you know you are affiliated with a very questionable organization and when confronted you feel the need to push back. Crabs is well known and not respected, including the parents and fans of said organization.

There is no league play for 2020s next year to move down to. Don't think that the teams that belong in the bracket are worried - there are just better teams that could move up then the ones being mentioned and that would give everyone better games. Seems like it is just based on who complained the most.

which teams are playing in this play day?

Kind of funny that everyone cites that game. 91 was clearly better, but nobody else has come closer to them than the Crabs. So basically you are bashing the Crabs because they were the 2nd best 2020 team out there last year (and slightly better when those 5 kids who were too old were allowed to play in a grade based tournament).

When your kid is in HS, are you going to stop the game because there are kids older than him on the field? LOL. Grow a pair.

who are the better teams?

it has never been an issue in high school sports, the issue is when they start running youth teams as high school teams.

If the event is grade based, nobody is breaking rules. If you don't like it, don't attend grade based tournaments.

Slightly better? You seem to conveniently forget many games. At Beach Lax, Crabs tied both Crush and Breakers and had to go to OT to win by 1 over both- even when they had those five (ahem...5?) players. Hawks gave them a run for their money too and Looneys could easily beat them if they played age appropriate players along with Long Island Express, Tomahawks and the list goes on. Stop kidding yourself - only better because you play a majority of kids 1-2 years older. On their high school teams, your players are all spread out between the schools and play MIAA.

Crabs and Ryan McClernan violates the spirit of grade base youth lacrosse and feels proud of it. He and his organization, including the parents/fans are all part of the deception and if you feel it is ok to have a team like the 2020 Crabs with almost the entire starting lineup loaded with holdbacks, you are just as much a cheater as Ryan McClernan. Look and listen around the lacrosse community, see how others feel about Crabs. No, it has nothing to do about wins and loses, it has to do with the abuse and cheating this organization does. If Crabs wants to do the right thing, put the 2020 team in a 2019 league, where they belong. But, you can also continue to keep your kid where he is and let him know it is ok to violate the guidelines to get ahead. 4b4xfn

Other than 91, the teams in that tournament last summer were weak, so stop pounding your chest that Crabs was the second best. You go your heads handed to you and even with your holdbacks you would not have beaten 91. And I don't believe the number of holdbacks were 5, closer to 8 to 10. High school is completely different, what Crabs does is game the grade base youth lacrosse to make themselves look like they are a great team, with, without the holdbacks, they are just an average team. You need to grow a pair and have your son play on a team that try to abide by the rules/guidelines or would that not make you feel proud. Simply disgusting, the entire organization.

Not true, Crush has had a few 1-2 point games in the past year, Looney's to name one. There are several teams that would beat the on-age crabs regularly. The Denver team lost to Edge the week before the WSYL. Without holdbacks, just another good team among several.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, huge difference between 7th graders playing 9th graders and 10th graders playing 12th graders, but what else can a Crab parent say?

How exactly does the conversation with your son go....
1) I have no faith in your ability to compete with kids your own age so you are repeating a grade or
2) the only way you can get into college with lax is if you repeat a grade but don't worry every one won't be laughing at you and if they do, screw them because you will get to talk about how great you were against younger kids for the rest of your life while you try to figure out why the real world is so unfair.

Parents are crazy and have their priorities so messed up.

Tell it to the County Executive who seems to be trying to clean things up In HC but those in Howard County who have held back their kids and RM will be ready to dismiss your claim. There is no integrity in the sport even when run by a government. Don't you think there was a reason why they were an early adopter of grade based?

That is a big mystery to many. Why did a Public organization paid for by taxpayers start a grade base lacrosse league in Howard County. Not ONE other sport controlled by Howard County Recreation is grade base, NOT ONE. Only Lacrosse. Howard County and the government employees who started this should be put in with all the rest of the slimeballs who turned YOUTH lacrosse into this cesspool.

Elite Bracket is the Holdback Bracket

AA Bracket is the correct age for the grade bracket

Careful your jealousy is rearing its ugly head again. Guess you were not invited. My kid worked hard along with his team to be included in that bracket and is on age. Your spewing of nonsense is transparent.

No jealousy here, perfectly content in playing in the AA on-age bracket. I'm just stating the facts. The teams in the Holdback Bracket all have a significant number of holdbacks. Like it or not that's the truth.

Can someone post the teams in the 2020 and 2021 HOCO brackets again please.

Whaaaaa...Sorry pal, life isn't fair

This must be a Crabs parent. They are the creators of the cesspool, along with Ryan McClernan and now it seems some employees of the Howard County Rec and Park program, Time to now find out who they are and flush them out. Shouldn't be too difficult. I'm sure they have strong ties with McClernan, who, if I had to guess first contacted them and sold his grade base system. When they jumped onboard, he began his "gaming" the grade base system and it is now where it is today, with
Crabs having sh*t loads of holdbacks. Yes, it is a question of being fair, and that word is not in McClernans vocabulary.

The reality is everyone on the forum will complain about it anonymously but nobody is willing to actually contact the County Executive or somebody that might think twice about the practice. The Lawyers for the County would probably be the most concerned as it would be difficult to defend that it is standard practice for large age differences resulting in large size difference in youth lacrosse and the prevention of avoidable injuries. Maybe they would force them to use USL guidelines of one year for YOUTH lacrosse.

Who is actually competing this weekend for the spot in the upper 2020 bracket? Any more teams drop out for lack of interest or bad timing reasons? Hope they have enough skilled teams show up to make it worth it.

USL has made changes this year. Instead of the promotion of the two year system (U15, U13, etc), they now promote single age and only use 2 year if necessary.


The below is right from the 2016 USL Guidelines
Grade - based competition:
For leagues or associations in which some or all teams choose to organize by grade, those should be single-grade teams and should play in the age division determined by the oldest player on their roster.
If a league or local program needs to group two years or grades together, it should strive to limit the maximum age
difference between players in any youth game to no more than twenty-four (24) months.
US Lacrosse discourages, but does not prohibit, a player eligible to play on a team in a younger age division from “playing up” on an older age division team, within such a twenty-four month age spread.
However, in no situation may a player “play down” below his appropriate age level.

The reality is everyone on the forum will complain about it anonymously but nobody is willing to actually contact the County Executive or somebody that might think twice about the practice. The Lawyers for the County would probably be the most concerned as it would be difficult to defend that it is standard practice for large age differences resulting in large size difference in youth lacrosse and the prevention of avoidable injuries. Maybe they would force them to use USL guidelines of one year for YOUTH lacrosse.

Who knows, maybe an anonymous letter to the County Executive and a copy to the County State's Attorney would get their attention. I'm saying anonymous as I wouldn't think a parent of a player would want to sign such a letter as that correspondence will surely trickle down to the Lacrosse Commissioner and other employees in the Howard County Rec and Parks Dept. and no one knows who, if anyone, has a connection/relationship with Ryan McClernan and if they do there is the chance that they could take some retaliatory action against a parents son or team. With Ryan McClernan you never know as he always his way and he could try and cause problems for someone interfering.

This must be a Crabs parent. They are the creators of the cesspool, along with Ryan McClernan and now it seems some employees of the Howard County Rec and Park program, Time to now find out who they are and flush them out. Shouldn't be too difficult. I'm sure they have strong ties with McClernan, who, if I had to guess first contacted them and sold his grade base system. When they jumped onboard, he began his "gaming" the grade base system and it is now where it is today, with
Crabs having sh*t loads of holdbacks. Yes, it is a question of being fair, and that word is not in McClernans vocabulary.[/quote]

The reality is everyone on the forum will complain about it anonymously but nobody is willing to actually contact the County Executive or somebody that might think twice about the practice. The Lawyers for the County would probably be the most concerned as it would be difficult to defend that it is standard practice for large age differences resulting in large size difference in youth lacrosse and the prevention of avoidable injuries. Maybe they would force them to use USL guidelines of one year for YOUTH lacrosse. [/quote]

What is stopping you? I wonder if they've pondered that and realized that youth lacrosse has been organized by 2 year age groups since the beginning. And that if Hoco said let's change 2020 to u15 probably every 2020 kid (including crabs) would be eligible. My 2020 kid is spring 2002 and not crab, so save the your kid is a hold back response.

BTW- Crabs were not part of the formation of the Hoco league. RM had run the NYPLL until it folded a few weeks ago. That league was actually age based until last season. You can criticize him for many things but this move to grade actually started in NY. Not sure why since their school system is calendar year and thus their grade based teams will average 3-4 months younger if before hold backs

That's right. Be careful. I heard there is a body buried under the turf at BL. Rumor is a kid got cut and the father complained and was never seen again. He sleeps with STX Barney's

The reality is everyone on the forum will complain about it anonymously but nobody is willing to actually contact the County Executive or somebody that might think twice about the practice. The Lawyers for the County would probably be the most concerned as it would be difficult to defend that it is standard practice for large age differences resulting in large size difference in youth lacrosse and the prevention of avoidable injuries. Maybe they would force them to use USL guidelines of one year for YOUTH lacrosse. [/quote]

What is stopping you? I wonder if they've pondered that and realized that youth lacrosse has been organized by 2 year age groups since the beginning. And that if Hoco said let's change 2020 to u15 probably every 2020 kid (including crabs) would be eligible. My 2020 kid is spring 2002 and not crab, so save the your kid is a hold back response.

BTW- Crabs were not part of the formation of the Hoco league. RM had run the NYPLL until it folded a few weeks ago. That league was actually age based until last season. You can criticize him for many things but this move to grade actually started in NY. Not sure why since their school system is calendar year and thus their grade based teams will average 3-4 months younger if before hold backs[/quote]

Hogan was the one mainly involved with NYPPL - not RM. Crabs were involved the first year with HoCo and their 2020 team played. RM started holdbacks in the mid Atlantic and made it his business model.

The reality is everyone on the forum will complain about it anonymously but nobody is willing to actually contact the County Executive or somebody that might think twice about the practice. The Lawyers for the County would probably be the most concerned as it would be difficult to defend that it is standard practice for large age differences resulting in large size difference in youth lacrosse and the prevention of avoidable injuries. Maybe they would force them to use USL guidelines of one year for YOUTH lacrosse. [/quote]

What is stopping you? I wonder if they've pondered that and realized that youth lacrosse has been organized by 2 year age groups since the beginning. And that if Hoco said let's change 2020 to u15 probably every 2020 kid (including crabs) would be eligible. My 2020 kid is spring 2002 and not crab, so save the your kid is a hold back response.

BTW- Crabs were not part of the formation of the Hoco league. RM had run the NYPLL until it folded a few weeks ago. That league was actually age based until last season. You can criticize him for many things but this move to grade actually started in NY. Not sure why since their school system is calendar year and thus their grade based teams will average 3-4 months younger if before hold backs [/quote]

McClernan was involved with the HOCO league and Crabs played in several age brackets. They didn't last year but in prior years they did. One thing McClernan wanted when in the HOCO league was that all Crabs games be played at Boys Latin. He didn't want to have to come to the HOCO fields. Who knows, maybe grade base started in NY but everyone can agree, he grabbed on to it very quickly and began to violate the true spirit of grade base. If 2020 was changed to U15 today there are quite a few Crab players who would not be eligible. This is the main reason, I believe, that many are fed up with the way he "games" the grade base system.

Maybe and hopefully there is room for you there also. So now we know the reason why BL always has that raunchy smell around their campus.

What is stopping you? I wonder if they've pondered that and realized that youth lacrosse has been organized by 2 year age groups since the beginning. And that if Hoco said let's change 2020 to u15 probably every 2020 kid (including crabs) would be eligible. My 2020 kid is spring 2002 and not crab, so save the your kid is a hold back response.

BTW- Crabs were not part of the formation of the Hoco league. RM had run the NYPLL until it folded a few weeks ago. That league was actually age based until last season. You can criticize him for many things but this move to grade actually started in NY. Not sure why since their school system is calendar year and thus their grade based teams will average 3-4 months younger if before hold backs [/quote]

McClernan was involved with the HOCO league and Crabs played in several age brackets. They didn't last year but in prior years they did. One thing McClernan wanted when in the HOCO league was that all Crabs games be played at Boys Latin. He didn't want to have to come to the HOCO fields. Who knows, maybe grade base started in NY but everyone can agree, he grabbed on to it very quickly and began to violate the true spirit of grade base. If 2020 was changed to U15 today there are quite a few Crab players who would not be eligible. This is the main reason, I believe, that many are fed up with the way he "games" the grade base system.[/quote]

The 1st year was 2013 and no Crab teams participated. In 2014 2020 2021 crabs were in Hoco. In 2015 no Crabs teams in hoco. Not a fan of RM but he didnt have anything to do with the formation of hoco club league or force all the teams to go grade. Also any club has the option of using home field, provided they pay for turf, have someone run score board, clock etc.

They have also complained for the last 7 months about the game they lost to FCA White - how the heck do they expect to compete against FCA Blue and are we going to listen to the whining the entire season ?

Fwiw, 91 platinum has gained a few very good players. The game they lost last year was not to the legitimate FCA white, they had BLUE players on the white team during the tournament.

2020 crabs vs FcA March 13 battle of the holdback.

Where is the HOCO 2016 schedule and Divisions at?

Most be a Looneys parent jealous

or the parent of any other kid that does not play on a team that games the system

[quote=Anonymous]Most be a Looneys parent jealous [/quote

Why would a Looney's parent be jealous? Crabs and FCA, two of the biggest violators of holdbacks in grade base youth lacrosse and just all around cheaters, mixing teams to suit their needs, in violation of league/tournament rules. Having three to four times as many holdbacks than any other team. Crabs and FCA Blue have the most, Crabs the largest amount closely followed by FCA Blue. Don't even try to deny it, just live with your cheating and try and convenience yourself your team is really good. What a joke.

Looneys parents trying to say this so that when they get beat they have an excuse. Keep trying to convince yourself that Looneys barely has any holdbacks when in reality they have just as many as Crabs and FCA .