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 Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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You have a point it's high school. But when you play in recruiting showcases at 2019 and the college coaches are looking at these physically matured boys who are way older then my true 14yr old, Sorry 15 by the summer it sucks. Because he is taking a spot away from my true 2019. I know it sounds like I'm crying but it is what it is and it won't change. I wouldn't reclassify my kid because I'm not teaching him by getting ahead in life you have to cheat. Work hard and hopefully he could land a spot at his dream school. Which by the way is not a top 10 lacrosse school.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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That is very misleading. Madlax is based in NoVa but is headquartered less than 4 miles from the Maryland border. It is a DMV club attracting from Va, DC and MD. And BTW, the holdback phenomenon is a DMV thing on all sides. If you add it all up over the preps these kids attend on both sides of the Potomac the holdback numbers are jarring. There are kids by the dozen playing grade based club for Madlax or Crabs that have done 8th grade twice at Bullis, Landon or Mater Dei (née Mater Delay). A decent percentage of those same kids live on the Virginia side. Those school buses leaving Tysons every morning for Landon, Bullis and Georgetown Prep are full. And they are full of kids who repeat a grade to play a certain sport we are also debating here. It is a minority of kids in the DMV playing high level club lacrosse who are on age. In Baltimore with the pre-first year as nearly a given nearly 100% of prep kids there are a year old for their grade.
I am from the area. I am informed. I have kids who play club, I had an on age kid at one of these schools and I am not making any of this up. I'm also not going to take any Madlax or Crabs defiant challenges to name names because all this is talk and not facts. I won't play on the kids. I'm embarrassed to be a part of a youth sports community this contaminated by serial lying and defiance. Let's just face it this way; there's no age rules in club lacrosse and there are people who can afford to game it for an advantage. Some of the things you write are correct. Most most of your thoughts are complete exaggerations or lies. Let's look at it. There are kids by the dozen playing grade based club for Madlax or Crabs that have done 8th grade twice at Bullis, Landon or Mater Dei (née Mater Delay). You state that 12+ kids at these schools/clubs who have repeated 8th grade twice. You can't name them because that's simply not true. And they are full of kids who repeat a grade to play a certain sport we are also debating here. They are not all on the same bus, but there are lots of kids who go to these private schools and repeat a grade primarily in order to be older in a particular sport (especially lacrosse). So this statement is basically true. It is a minority of kids in the DMV playing high level club lacrosse who are on age. Not true. Many kids are holdbacks now, but it is far from a majority of the elite kids. It's a significant number, but not number of elite players on age is the majority. By far. You make a number of good points, but you are seriously exaggerating the situation. The beauty of it all is that there are many kids that do not do a pre first, do not repeat their 8th grade and get left back and will play right alongside the kids on a D1 team. If you are that talented, you need no manipulated advantage, your skills speak for themself. Good luck to all the boys- the coaches are not dumb and know if the holdback is getting beat by a younger kid. In two years, it will be even more obvious and bench riding is no fun.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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That is very misleading. Madlax is based in NoVa but is headquartered less than 4 miles from the Maryland border. It is a DMV club attracting from Va, DC and MD. And BTW, the holdback phenomenon is a DMV thing on all sides. If you add it all up over the preps these kids attend on both sides of the Potomac the holdback numbers are jarring. There are kids by the dozen playing grade based club for Madlax or Crabs that have done 8th grade twice at Bullis, Landon or Mater Dei (née Mater Delay). A decent percentage of those same kids live on the Virginia side. Those school buses leaving Tysons every morning for Landon, Bullis and Georgetown Prep are full. And they are full of kids who repeat a grade to play a certain sport we are also debating here. It is a minority of kids in the DMV playing high level club lacrosse who are on age. In Baltimore with the pre-first year as nearly a given nearly 100% of prep kids there are a year old for their grade.
I am from the area. I am informed. I have kids who play club, I had an on age kid at one of these schools and I am not making any of this up. I'm also not going to take any Madlax or Crabs defiant challenges to name names because all this is talk and not facts. I won't play on the kids. I'm embarrassed to be a part of a youth sports community this contaminated by serial lying and defiance. Let's just face it this way; there's no age rules in club lacrosse and there are people who can afford to game it for an advantage. "In Baltimore with the pre-first year as nearly a given nearly 100% of prep kids there are a year old for their grade" Not accurate. It's nowhere near 100% in Balt. Don't get me wrong it's a higher percentage than other areas. The pre-first is largely a function of summer birthday kids of kids that start at prep schools in elementary school. It is close 100% of those particular kids. Maybe 50-50 for spring bdays. But that's an uber-rich segment - ie paying 25K/yr starting w/ a pre-first. That group doesn't represent all of the lax playing kids in the area. For public school kids hold-backs are few and far between. For Catholics it might be around 20%. Then there's the handful of kids that repeat 8th when they transfer into some of these schools. This isn't to justify or say it's not a problem. But saying it's nearly 100% is false.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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You have a point it's high school. But when you play in recruiting showcases at 2019 and the college coaches are looking at these physically matured boys who are way older then my true 14yr old, Sorry 15 by the summer it sucks. Because he is taking a spot away from my true 2019. I know it sounds like I'm crying but it is what it is and it won't change. I wouldn't reclassify my kid because I'm not teaching him by getting ahead in life you have to cheat. Work hard and hopefully he could land a spot at his dream school. Which by the way is not a top 10 lacrosse school. Nobody is taking a spot from anybody. A coach is looking for whoever is appropriate for his team. He recruits and signs a particular number of kids per grade. I'm pretty sure you are not posting on basketball or football forums where kids reclassify all the time. You are only upset about it now because you perceive it negatively impacting your kid. It would be like a dad crying publicly that it's not fair that his son is not getting recruited because of his height, weight, foot speed, etc. Crying about it isn't going to change anything, especially for grade based teams comprised of HS players. Get a grip.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Did I miss the part where people railed over high school play being unjust because there are freshmen through seniors? I didn't, because there wasn't one.
The laments aren't all over somebody's special 19 year old son who will be graduating from high school this spring. What is a concern for people is the youth game. Not scholastic, THE YOUTH GAME. There isn't anything special about a 16 year old 2019 kid blowing up a 14 year old 2019 kid last summer. There isn't anything special about a 15 year old 2020 kid blowing up a 13 year old 2020 kid this past fall. I am not a recruiting guru, but anyone can check to find hundreds of freshmen committed and also safely assume 8th graders are being recruited during the last mile of evaluations by the coaches who pushed calendar up this far. There is an inequity there. Playing down is not a compulsory choice -- it involves going private and paying tuitions. That's not obtainable to all kids, and maybe that's just the way it is...the only way to go again in the publics is to flunk a grade.
I am not making an argument that high school kids need training wheels back, and don't think I've read it here. And if a freshman or soph stood out in high school I salute that. I also have never heard a cogent argument against say a u-10 team instead of a 5th grade team. The only people arguing for grade based youth teams are the parents who held their kid back for sports.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Height, weight, speed are mostly genetics and there is no point arguing about the natural advantages some have over others. That is what separates most of the elite from the average. But holding a kid back is a priviledge for the few that can afford it to gain a unfair advantage. Otherwise, why would anyone do it! My son is a non-holdback public school kid that has played for some of the best clubs in Baltimore which are comprised primarily of private school kids and I would say that approximately 40% of those kids have reclassed or prefirst. Any unfair advantage for one kid is a unfair disadvantage for another kid!
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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One of my sons is a 2017. Just you wait...I can still recall the kids in the Maryland and DMV areas who were the it boys in 8th or 9th grade. A lot happened over the next 2 years. Those same kids aren't standing out anymore and several are not going to start as juniors. The late bloomers are really kicking in on many teams. I don't know what the college coaches will do, if anything, but they have one fine mess on their hands. There are a lot of reasons for it. Some of the kids who stood out earlier just didn't grow or develop further and some just look burned out and disinterested. Some early recruits did stay at a high level, but I must say they are not in the majority.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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One of my sons is a 2017. Just you wait...I can still recall the kids in the Maryland and DMV areas who were the it boys in 8th or 9th grade. A lot happened over the next 2 years. Those same kids aren't standing out anymore and several are not going to start as juniors. The late bloomers are really kicking in on many teams. I don't know what the college coaches will do, if anything, but they have one fine mess on their hands. There are a lot of reasons for it. Some of the kids who stood out earlier just didn't grow or develop further and some just look burned out and disinterested. Some early recruits did stay at a high level, but I must say they are not in the majority. That's what I'm seeing too. Only now Daddy can't fix it!
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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One of my sons is a 2017. Just you wait...I can still recall the kids in the Maryland and DMV areas who were the it boys in 8th or 9th grade. A lot happened over the next 2 years. Those same kids aren't standing out anymore and several are not going to start as juniors. The late bloomers are really kicking in on many teams. I don't know what the college coaches will do, if anything, but they have one fine mess on their hands. There are a lot of reasons for it. Some of the kids who stood out earlier just didn't grow or develop further and some just look burned out and disinterested. Some early recruits did stay at a high level, but I must say they are not in the majority. Very true. Maybe after the college coaches see enough of the young boys not panning out when they become young men, they'll slow down with the 9th graders, and 8th graders! Might take a few years for them to realize it, or maybe they'll just over recruit so they can cut or bench the kids that don't pan out.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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They (college coaches) will just over recruit and you will continue to see 50 kids on a roster while 18 or so kids actually seeing the field....
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Your right rosters are really blowing up to over 50 i see.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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This early recruiting is ruining the game but we can't fight it . The more physically mature kids are the ones getting the verbals right now. I have seen time and time again the early bloomers aren't those studs down the road. Not saying all but have seen many. I have seen it in football too. I know of 2 or 3 2019s who are really small right now but will be forces once they mature physically. Many 2019s are done with growing and many kids will catch up in year or two.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Not that easy for coaches,if you are getting recruited in 8th or 9th grade, you should be getting alot of atlethic money. so if kids don't work out, that is trouble for the coach.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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I would guess if you looked at the bottom 20 on each roster, you would find 2 things in common, good grades, and parents with money,
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Lol u are right with that statement. Great grades and parents with money. I hear of top schools where we know kids and they say a lot of kids don't belong on the team. Many of them freshman. And they said it has to do with early recruiting.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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You have a point it's high school. But when you play in recruiting showcases at 2019 and the college coaches are looking at these physically matured boys who are way older then my true 14yr old, Sorry 15 by the summer it sucks. Because he is taking a spot away from my true 2019. I know it sounds like I'm crying but it is what it is and it won't change. I wouldn't reclassify my kid because I'm not teaching him by getting ahead in life you have to cheat. Work hard and hopefully he could land a spot at his dream school. Which by the way is not a top 10 lacrosse school. Nobody is taking a spot from anybody. A coach is looking for whoever is appropriate for his team. He recruits and signs a particular number of kids per grade. I'm pretty sure you are not posting on basketball or football forums where kids reclassify all the time. You are only upset about it now because you perceive it negatively impacting your kid. It would be like a dad crying publicly that it's not fair that his son is not getting recruited because of his height, weight, foot speed, etc. Crying about it isn't going to change anything, especially for grade based teams comprised of HS players. Get a grip. Hey, moron. Of course holdbacks take spots away from true age kids. Posting otherwise is just dumb. If all 2018's are held back, not many 2019's will get roster spots for class of 2019.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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You have a point it's high school. But when you play in recruiting showcases at 2019 and the college coaches are looking at these physically matured boys who are way older then my true 14yr old, Sorry 15 by the summer it sucks. Because he is taking a spot away from my true 2019. I know it sounds like I'm crying but it is what it is and it won't change. I wouldn't reclassify my kid because I'm not teaching him by getting ahead in life you have to cheat. Work hard and hopefully he could land a spot at his dream school. Which by the way is not a top 10 lacrosse school. Nobody is taking a spot from anybody. A coach is looking for whoever is appropriate for his team. He recruits and signs a particular number of kids per grade. I'm pretty sure you are not posting on basketball or football forums where kids reclassify all the time. You are only upset about it now because you perceive it negatively impacting your kid. It would be like a dad crying publicly that it's not fair that his son is not getting recruited because of his height, weight, foot speed, etc. Crying about it isn't going to change anything, especially for grade based teams comprised of HS players. Get a grip. Hey, moron. Of course holdbacks take spots away from true age kids. Posting otherwise is just dumb. If all 2018's are held back, not many 2019's will get roster spots for class of 2019. Just watched HS all star football game..what a joke .. They had the fans vote two players in. How would anyone know how good one kid is from the next in making the decision..To be honest it reminds me of the Brine tryout and many others . it's who you know and what you wear instead of being a true tryout..Sorry old story but it's so true and very sad. Tell your kids to keep fighting if they don't make these teams because it most certainly doesn't mean they aren't better just that your Mom or Dad isn't political enough yet.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Your right rosters are really blowing up to over 50 i see. Depends on the program. Many of the bigger programs over recruit on purpose because they are factoring in attrition. My son committed to a Mid D1 and the coach made a point of saying they dont over recruit and they dont recruit to replace. In other words, they recruit the kids they want and thats the kids they go with. Some of the bigger programs are recruiting 15-20 kids a class.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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No real vested interest other than my nephew is a 2019 and I loved the cheating allegations. Edge 2019 now has 3 significant verbals -Fox (Arm Breaker) at Hopkins, Handsor at Hopkins and Cormier at Virginia. Can't believe those no good Canucks are stealing and cheating their way to NCAA spots at premiere schools 
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Right all are older you idiot.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Right now the Canadian kids are simply better than US kids. Not a popular point but they are also tougher. Not too many gritty kids down here in the MIAA or IAC. Sad truth.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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older than who? Older than the Sweetlax Teams that have 7 or 8 verbals, older than the Crabs who have multiple verbals. Don't think so. Maybe leave the garage door open when you rev the iroc because brutha you ain't making any sense.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Brothas don't drive IROCs
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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How many true 2019s are these kids? None i bet. Most of them probably 15 going on 16 soon.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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How many true 2019s are these kids? None i bet. Most of them probably 15 going on 16 soon. I think some who have been recruited for 2019 are 16 .
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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I would imagine 99% of the 50+ 2019 verbals are reclassified.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Hopkins has the freshmans' birthday right on the roster page.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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I would imagine 99% of the 50+ 2019 verbals are reclassified. While I get, and generally agree with, your point....folks WAY overestimate this. I know enough of the committed kids to say 90+ percent is way too high. If you set the over / under at 50%? seems okay...
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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What is already coming to roost is Canadian kids are better players than US players. I thought we might be a few years away from really seeing this play out, but after watching the US U-19 game I am convinced it has arrived. Americans are so wound up into reclassifying to play down, and on showcase lacrosse / ugly me first club ball that we don't even know what excellence is anymore. Makes me sad since I have younger boys playing. I'd like to see something more out of the game on the US side, but we just keep going backwards.
The Canadian kids showed up yesterday wearing mismatched equipment had one practice together before yesterday, rotated around over 45 kids into the game. They took about 20 minutes to get a feel for each other on the field and then just rolled us over. One of the Canadian parents told me a lot of these kids don't have much back at home and it is the world for them to be given a plane ticket to play for country. Some parents drove down and slept in their cars to see the kids play.
Those boys don't have a lot of things, but they had three things US player heart, fight and balls.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Yeah not bad playing as a 20 yr old freshman. Not one person can tell me that is a big difference. I played my freshman year at 18. I was a totally different player at 20. Grew an inch and put on 25 lbs. and had a lot more muscle and faster.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Yeah not bad playing as a 20 yr old freshman. Not one person can tell me that is a big difference. I played my freshman year at 18. I was a totally different player at 20. Grew an inch and put on 25 lbs. and had a lot more muscle and faster. Don't make the mistake of making a case study of one from your own experience. Yesterday there were about 30 kids on the Canadian team who are still 18 and could start for most top NCAA teams this spring. Their best player yesterday was Ryan Lanchbury. He is an on age junior who committed as a 15 year old rising junior. You got the goods or you don't. The playing down thing is a coping mechanism for a certain American demographic. It works in the club scene and at some prep schools. Don't confuse that with excellence.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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No real vested interest other than my nephew is a 2019 and I loved the cheating allegations. Edge 2019 now has 3 significant verbals -Fox (Arm Breaker) at Hopkins, Handsor at Hopkins and Cormier at Virginia. Can't believe those no good Canucks are stealing and cheating their way to NCAA spots at premiere schools You just validated all the people arguing that "holdbacks" are taking legitimate 2019 spots. None of those Edge kids are legit 2019's. How stupid do they make them North of the border?
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Ok you have point there. But is that the norm? These college coaches will take a more physically mature kid with less skill I guarantee. Yes it's great when your kid is of age and matured physically but for most that's not the case. So many of my teammates were entirely different players from 18 to 20. There was one kid who we were like how is he here. 5'6" maybe 140 attack. Junior year he was 5'8" 175 and strong as [lacrosse] and became an incredible player.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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All of this points to NCAA coaches needing to use some common sense to wait to see kids as juniors. At least take as much physical and other developmental unknowns off the table as possible. It is impossible to project now which 2017 kids will shine as collegians, but it is at least possible to identify candidates without just wildly guessing. Recruiting 9th graders is a joke.
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 Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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All of this points to NCAA coaches needing to use some common sense to wait to see kids as juniors. At least take as much physical and other developmental unknowns off the table as possible. It is impossible to project now which 2017 kids will shine as collegians, but it is at least possible to identify candidates without just wildly guessing. Recruiting 9th graders is a joke. If people would only start to realize how crazy getting an "offer" in 9th grade is... Our family has made the decision on wait, our son will not talk to coaches until he is a Junior. If they want him, they will wait. If he ends up not getting any offers because of our then he will walk on at the school he decides to go to. Actually, my son is super happy with this plan and his attitude has changed as far as he now has NO STRESS at all. Then again, my son is s very strong student and we know he will get into schools without lacrosse and we also know he will get academic aid too
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Some coaches would disagree with you. You could see as an 8th grader that a guy like Dox Aiken would be a college stud.
Some coaches are willing to offer highly regarded kids early; some are not. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it necessarily is the wrong thing to do.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Some coaches would disagree with you. You could see as an 8th grader that a guy like Dox Aiken would be a college stud.
Some coaches are willing to offer highly regarded kids early; some are not. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it necessarily is the wrong thing to do. Usually the kid needs to show an interest in the school so unless the parents are pushing it really doesn't make sense unless the kid is 17 in 9th grade then he might have a clue as to where they want to go
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Some coaches would disagree with you. You could see as an 8th grader that a guy like Dox Aiken would be a college stud.
Some coaches are willing to offer highly regarded kids early; some are not. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it necessarily is the wrong thing to do. I've heard all this before. In every class there may be 1-3 kids in 8th grade you can make that sort of bold statement about. 50 kids, 200 kids? Now you're playing into a joke. I know it is easy for people in lacrosse to struggle for perspective, but there are good reasons why college recruiting in most other sports only starts to heat up junior year. Maybe football, baseball, soccer, swimming and basketball among others all 'just don't get it' with the arguments you're making.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Some coaches would disagree with you. You could see as an 8th grader that a guy like Dox Aiken would be a college stud.
Some coaches are willing to offer highly regarded kids early; some are not. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it necessarily is the wrong thing to do. I've heard all this before. In every class there may be 1-3 kids in 8th grade you can make that sort of bold statement about. 50 kids, 200 kids? Now you're playing into a joke. I know it is easy for people in lacrosse to struggle for perspective, but there are good reasons why college recruiting in most other sports only starts to heat up junior year. Maybe football, baseball, soccer, swimming and basketball among others all 'just don't get it' with the arguments you're making. Basketball and football have been offering MS and freshmen for years. If you think they are only giving offers out to juniors and seniors, you really are an idiot.
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Re: Re: Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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The value of the US Dollar is going to make it almost impossible for Canadian kids who are mostly on partials (nobody gets a free ride) to play NCAA. If we had any sense we would upgrade our own college system where lacrosse has club status even though the sport is our national summer sport. Funny but McGill U in Montreal won the Canadian U championship in November (they play their season in the Autumn) Guess what 75% of McGill roster where American boys. Smart parents tuition at McGill is 11,500 USD per year at the current rate and its the 15th highest rated school in the world.
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Moderated by A1Laxer, Abclax123, America's Game, Annoy., Anonymous 1, baldbear, Bearded_Kaos, BiggLax, BOTC_EVENTS, botc_ne, clax422, CP@BOTC, cp_botc, Gremelin, HammerOfJustice, hatimd80, JimSection1, Ladylaxer2609, lax516, Laxers412, LaxMomma, Liam Kassl, LILax15, MomOf6, Team BOTC, The Hop, TheBackOfTheCage, Thirdy@BOTC, TM@BOTC |
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