BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

Its too bad so many clubs are going to this model. I always laugh when a 2019 commit announcement links to a highlight video for a 2018.

Those reclasses better hurry up and commit though, because the physical advantage they have disappears pretty quickly as the kids move into their sophomore year.

Here is the new trick: Tell them you are going PG, drop down a class, hopefully you get better looks versus younger field. Then use it as an option to go NESCAC if your grades are good enough.

Why would you say "so many clubs going to this model"?

I would say "so many parents are going to this model".

Edge Lacrosse (Canada) plays ALL of their teams down an age group. Not new.

How is it possible that tournaments allow a program to register their teams down? Wouldn't liability issues preclude such a practice? Entire teams playing down is entirely different than individual players form a liability standpoint.

Playing down had a huge negative stigma when I was a kid. The cool thing used to be playing up. The grade based system in lacrosse is there to accommodate a demographic that will pay a lot for an expensive sport that will broker back some advantages for those who can afford it. Club lacrosse is a great business model because of that. In other sports a kid needs to stand out on his own. In lacrosse you can broker it.

It's because they're not technically "playing down". Many of their school system (it may be province-dependent) have an extra year built in.
2019 is a graduation year; to us it means 12th grade. To someone else it might mean 10th grade or college.
If you go to "13th grade" and then graduate in 2019, you are technically a 2019.

They are a bunch of cheats like the crabs. They can't excel against age appropriate kids. Therefore they have to play down against younger teams in order to look good.

Why do you call the crabs cheats? Name one club that doesn't have holdbacks and I will call you out for being a liar. Stop being jealous of the crabs because you can't beat them.

Why do you call the crabs cheats? Name one club that doesn't have holdbacks and I will call you out for being a liar. Stop being jealous of the crabs because you can't beat them.

I don't know if one hold back on any of the 91 teams at the 2019 level. .if I am wrong I apologize

Crush gained some hold backs this year

Says a crab daddy to deflect criticism Crush has two both undersized doing for the correct reason and 19 orange has one Please stop and enjoy your holiday

Says a crab daddy to deflect criticism Crush has two both undersized doing for the correct reason and 19 orange has one Please stop and enjoy your holiday

A cheat is a cheat.either the team plays with ethics or they dont. Point is very few do. They cut on age kids and take holdbacks. One holdback makes you no better than the team with 10!

Who cares. Edge is a very good team with good skills. I would bunch them in with the top 5 or 6 teams. They don't dominate any of the good teams. I would rather compete with them than play a quasi town/weak club team and win 12-2.
It's about development and playing under competitive pressure. Most of the top players play for their HS and against bigger kids. Getting used to being uncomfortable will surely build character.

I agree with all of the points that it is tainted to stage kids so they can play down and dominate. My question to the other posters is,

With that as a given, why are college lacrosse coaches so smitten with it? Just me asking, but is there something more they see here than a 15 year old blowing up smaller 13 year olds in 8th grade? Most 15 year olds who are decent athletes will dominate younger and smaller kids, not just in lacrosse but in every sport I've had kids in. This recruiting angle seems really strange to me.

I am a first time poster. I have had kids who played for Madlax over the past 8 years. I think what a lot of the cynical posters writes is unfortunately accurate. My oldest didn't live this early process or was he urged to repeat a grade, but with my younger son who is now a 2020 I see it all the time. It is a family decision, but it is also a family decision on the advice of the club lacrosse people who tell kids and families to reclassify if you want to be a high level recruit. It is basically saying "if you want our help to place your son, here is what he should do".

The prep school people are also there waiting for your buy in to take a kid as a repeating 8th grader. The most top prep schools for lacrosse in Southern Maryland and in Baltimore have middle schools. The ones who don't have "feeder" middle schools. The old joke in Montgomery County Maryland is calling Mater Dei "Mater Delay" and some other jokes about a student parking lot at the middle school.

I had one kid go through Mater Dei as an on-age kid from K-8th, and I was absolutely clueless about other dads joking that my son better enjoy his playing time in 6th grade because come 8th grade there will be a bunch of redshirt ringers coming to keep him off the football field, the basketball court and the lacrosse field. Then I was revolted when exactly that did happen. Lacrosse in our area is basically Mater Delay kids stocking Georgetown Prep and Gonzaga, and then Landon and Bullis with legions of repeat 8th graders stocking their teams every year. One of the reasons why Landon's JV team is better than most public varsities is their team is stocked with 16 year old freshmen and 17 year old sophs who aren't up on varsity yet. It used to be a big deal when a 9th grader was a varsity member on one of these teams. Now it is no big deal at all...there are tons of 16 year old 9th graders now who play varsity, and even if they don't belong there on ability the prep coach rather has to keep them there to keep the peace. These parents would go nuts if their son the commit or their son the recruit was sullied by playing JV. They'd rather be last on the bench varsity than play on a team where their level of play belongs. And none of the prep coaches have the guts to run their own program because the parents will literally run them out of town.

There isn't a need for anyone to be defensive about it. Are a lot of the kids on Madlax Capital repeaters? Yes. Are MOST of the Crabs kids repeaters who did a middle school repeat year and/or a pre-first meaning they are old for grade anyways? Yes, almost 100%. I've heard all the reasoning about pre-first being the Baltimore private school tradition for decades which has nothing to do with sports advantage for boys and frankly I don't buy it. I think that in Baltimore this was institutionalized all the way back in the 1960s and 1970s to give boys more confindence and maturity when they are young. One of the ways all boys gain confidence is sports. Back then it was likely people just didn't notice or think as much about it because the world wasn't like this where college recruiting means kids are in or out once they are in middle school for colleges! It gets a lot of attention because of the crazy things in lacrosse recruiting. Given all that, I just don't understand all the denials and lying. Nearly every single kid playing high level club and MIAA prep lacrosse in Baltimore County is one year too old with the pre-first year or is two years old for his class if he also did a repeat middle school year. The second happens a lot...kids just transfer from one MIAA prep middle school to another. I would guesstimate that over 50% of the kids on any Crabs 8th grade team over the past 5 years turned 15 before the spring NPYLL season. And I know it is a fact for the recent 2 Crabs 8th grade teams.

I am a first time poster. I have had kids who played for Madlax over the past 8 years. I think what a lot of the cynical posters writes is unfortunately accurate. My oldest didn't live this early process or was he urged to repeat a grade, but with my younger son who is now a 2020 I see it all the time. It is a family decision, but it is also a family decision on the advice of the club lacrosse people who tell kids and families to reclassify if you want to be a high level recruit. It is basically saying "if you want our help to place your son, here is what he should do".

The prep school people are also there waiting for your buy in to take a kid as a repeating 8th grader. The most top prep schools for lacrosse in Southern Maryland and in Baltimore have middle schools. The ones who don't have "feeder" middle schools. The old joke in Montgomery County Maryland is calling Mater Dei "Mater Delay" and some other jokes about a student parking lot at the middle school.

I had one kid go through Mater Dei as an on-age kid from K-8th, and I was absolutely clueless about other dads joking that my son better enjoy his playing time in 6th grade because come 8th grade there will be a bunch of redshirt ringers coming to keep him off the football field, the basketball court and the lacrosse field. Then I was revolted when exactly that did happen. Lacrosse in our area is basically Mater Delay kids stocking Georgetown Prep and Gonzaga, and then Landon and Bullis with legions of repeat 8th graders stocking their teams every year. One of the reasons why Landon's JV team is better than most public varsities is their team is stocked with 16 year old freshmen and 17 year old sophs who aren't up on varsity yet. It used to be a big deal when a 9th grader was a varsity member on one of these teams. Now it is no big deal at all...there are tons of 16 year old 9th graders now who play varsity, and even if they don't belong there on ability the prep coach rather has to keep them there to keep the peace. These parents would go nuts if their son the commit or their son the recruit was sullied by playing JV. They'd rather be last on the bench varsity than play on a team where their level of play belongs. And none of the prep coaches have the guts to run their own program because the parents will literally run them out of town.

There isn't a need for anyone to be defensive about it. Are a lot of the kids on Madlax Capital repeaters? Yes. Are MOST of the Crabs kids repeaters who did a middle school repeat year and/or a pre-first meaning they are old for grade anyways? Yes, almost 100%. I've heard all the reasoning about pre-first being the Baltimore private school tradition for decades which has nothing to do with sports advantage for boys and frankly I don't buy it. I think that in Baltimore this was institutionalized all the way back in the 1960s and 1970s to give boys more confindence and maturity when they are young. One of the ways all boys gain confidence is sports. Back then it was likely people just didn't notice or think as much about it because the world wasn't like this where college recruiting means kids are in or out once they are in middle school for colleges! It gets a lot of attention because of the crazy things in lacrosse recruiting. Given all that, I just don't understand all the denials and lying. Nearly every single kid playing high level club and MIAA prep lacrosse in Baltimore County is one year too old with the pre-first year or is two years old for his class if he also did a repeat middle school year. The second happens a lot...kids just transfer from one MIAA prep middle school to another. I would guesstimate that over 50% of the kids on any Crabs 8th grade team over the past 5 years turned 15 before the spring NPYLL season. And I know it is a fact for the recent 2 Crabs 8th grade teams.

I am the Madlax poste from earlier. Here is my second post. I have an older son who is a 2017. I truly believe that a watershed event for Crabs was my son's 8th grade year in the spring. That spring the U-15 West Coast Stars came east and beat Madlax soundly and played Crabs to the buzzer. That summer Crabs U-15s lost frequently and only won one summer tournament. Madlax Capital U-15s my son played on did not win a summer tournament. Come fall Ryan McClernan pushed very hard for grade based teams for all youth levels and he stuffed it through within the next year. Nobody around DC or Maryland got in his way and most of the other club owners including ours went along with it. Ryan's reasons were primarily that his age based teams were starting to lose. I think with the growth of lacrosse that happens over time anyways but around here nobody believes that. Ryan basically runs the NPYLL and controls the best summer tournaments including Young Gunz or Crabfeast. Get in his way or on his wrong side and your club is out of these leagues and tournaments. Very powerful person in Mid-Atlantic lacrosse. I doubt you will see a return to age based teams without a fight.

College kids have the same problems being responsible at 20 as they do as 18 year olds. I was guilty of that. Not getting the older is better thing either. In football players are auto redshirted so they can gain 30-50 pounds in the weight room at many positions. It is also a sport that allows 85 scholarships for 11 spots at a time on the field. You can fully scholarship 5 QBs. In basketball they don't redshirt guys. In soccer, swimming, baseball, etc they don't. Going back in lacrosse to the 1990s or 1980s did the top players then struggle as 18 year old freshmen against older players? I don't think so. Once you are 18-19 you are good enough or you are not. If you are a middle school kid playing against kids a year or two younger, there just isn't any way to see that as an outlier. I'd feel differently if I saw a 14 year old 2019 kid tearing it up on a 2018 or 2017 team. But I've never seen that at a club lacrosse event.

Did all of these lacrosse coaches read Gulliver's Travels and get carried away? A 16 year old 6'3 9th grader probably is not going to grow to 10 feet tall.