BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

College kids have the same problems being responsible at 20 as they do as 18 year olds. I was guilty of that. Not getting the older is better thing either. In football players are auto redshirted so they can gain 30-50 pounds in the weight room at many positions. It is also a sport that allows 85 scholarships for 11 spots at a time on the field. You can fully scholarship 5 QBs. In basketball they don't redshirt guys. In soccer, swimming, baseball, etc they don't. Going back in lacrosse to the 1990s or 1980s did the top players then struggle as 18 year old freshmen against older players? I don't think so. Once you are 18-19 you are good enough or you are not. If you are a middle school kid playing against kids a year or two younger, there just isn't any way to see that as an outlier. I'd feel differently if I saw a 14 year old 2019 kid tearing it up on a 2018 or 2017 team. But I've never seen that at a club lacrosse event.

Did all of these lacrosse coaches read Gulliver's Travels and get carried away? A 16 year old 6'3 9th grader probably is not going to grow to 10 feet tall.

I am a first time poster. I have had kids who played for Madlax over the past 8 years. I think what a lot of the cynical posters writes is unfortunately accurate. My oldest didn't live this early process or was he urged to repeat a grade, but with my younger son who is now a 2020 I see it all the time. It is a family decision, but it is also a family decision on the advice of the club lacrosse people who tell kids and families to reclassify if you want to be a high level recruit. It is basically saying "if you want our help to place your son, here is what he should do".

The prep school people are also there waiting for your buy in to take a kid as a repeating 8th grader. The most top prep schools for lacrosse in Southern Maryland and in Baltimore have middle schools. The ones who don't have "feeder" middle schools. The old joke in Montgomery County Maryland is calling Mater Dei "Mater Delay" and some other jokes about a student parking lot at the middle school.

I had one kid go through Mater Dei as an on-age kid from K-8th, and I was absolutely clueless about other dads joking that my son better enjoy his playing time in 6th grade because come 8th grade there will be a bunch of redshirt ringers coming to keep him off the football field, the basketball court and the lacrosse field. Then I was revolted when exactly that did happen. Lacrosse in our area is basically Mater Delay kids stocking Georgetown Prep and Gonzaga, and then Landon and Bullis with legions of repeat 8th graders stocking their teams every year. One of the reasons why Landon's JV team is better than most public varsities is their team is stocked with 16 year old freshmen and 17 year old sophs who aren't up on varsity yet. It used to be a big deal when a 9th grader was a varsity member on one of these teams. Now it is no big deal at all...there are tons of 16 year old 9th graders now who play varsity, and even if they don't belong there on ability the prep coach rather has to keep them there to keep the peace. These parents would go nuts if their son the commit or their son the recruit was sullied by playing JV. They'd rather be last on the bench varsity than play on a team where their level of play belongs. And none of the prep coaches have the guts to run their own program because the parents will literally run them out of town.

There isn't a need for anyone to be defensive about it. Are a lot of the kids on Madlax Capital repeaters? Yes. Are MOST of the Crabs kids repeaters who did a middle school repeat year and/or a pre-first meaning they are old for grade anyways? Yes, almost 100%. I've heard all the reasoning about pre-first being the Baltimore private school tradition for decades which has nothing to do with sports advantage for boys and frankly I don't buy it. I think that in Baltimore this was institutionalized all the way back in the 1960s and 1970s to give boys more confindence and maturity when they are young. One of the ways all boys gain confidence is sports. Back then it was likely people just didn't notice or think as much about it because the world wasn't like this where college recruiting means kids are in or out once they are in middle school for colleges! It gets a lot of attention because of the crazy things in lacrosse recruiting. Given all that, I just don't understand all the denials and lying. Nearly every single kid playing high level club and MIAA prep lacrosse in Baltimore County is one year too old with the pre-first year or is two years old for his class if he also did a repeat middle school year. The second happens a lot...kids just transfer from one MIAA prep middle school to another. I would guesstimate that over 50% of the kids on any Crabs 8th grade team over the past 5 years turned 15 before the spring NPYLL season. And I know it is a fact for the recent 2 Crabs 8th grade teams.

College kids have the same problems being responsible at 20 as they do as 18 year olds. I was guilty of that. Not getting the older is better thing either. In football players are auto redshirted so they can gain 30-50 pounds in the weight room at many positions. It is also a sport that allows 85 scholarships for 11 spots at a time on the field. You can fully scholarship 5 QBs. In basketball they don't redshirt guys. In soccer, swimming, baseball, etc they don't. Going back in lacrosse to the 1990s or 1980s did the top players then struggle as 18 year old freshmen against older players? I don't think so. Once you are 18-19 you are good enough or you are not. If you are a middle school kid playing against kids a year or two younger, there just isn't any way to see that as an outlier. I'd feel differently if I saw a 14 year old 2019 kid tearing it up on a 2018 or 2017 team. But I've never seen that at a club lacrosse event.

Did all of these lacrosse coaches read Gulliver's Travels and get carried away? A 16 year old 6'3 9th grader probably is not going to grow to 10 feet tall.

Sorry but at 18 you are a bit more immature than 20 in all aspects of your development. I played a D1 sport in college and as a freshman I rode the bench by Junior year I started every game till I graduated. Same person same skill just more mature and exposure to the game. Physically I was just stronger and my time spent in the gym really paid off. What a difference 2 years made in my overall maturity and physical presence. take a kid add in the fact they either did a repeat in 9th and then a PG where they are being groomed to play D1 lacrosse. Odds are they are committed so speaking to the college coach every other week and discussing their progress. This type of kid knows whats on the line. So As a coach I would take the 20 year old freshman over the 18 year old. Like you said a player can go to a PG year and really take minimal classes workout at the private school/boarding school and put on size in the gym and come in ready to play. If you say otherwise you don't know the inner working of these schools like Deerfield and Salisbury etc. They want to be #1 in the prep school world and take on players that normally wouldn't be able to attend. They even pay for their schooling. I know of a number of athletes that have done this.

In my opinion I feel if you are going to repeat or PG you still play with your age appropriate class and when its time to enter college you enter college as the year you are going to graduate. It is ridiculous when I hear about players who say they are going to PG yet they are still in their appropriate grade in school and play a year down. That is absolute BS. At least the repeats have to deal with the fact they are repeating. Also being a repeat doesn't always guarantee you will be on your travel teams top team player that put his trust in a director of a very large club and by his recommendation repeated and now isn't even starting on that club teams A team. Which is not deserved great player and family.

Sorry but at 18 you are a bit more immature than 20 in all aspects of your development. I played a D1 sport in college and as a freshman I rode the bench by Junior year I started every game till I graduated. Same person same skill just more mature and exposure to the game. Physically I was just stronger and my time spent in the gym really paid off. What a difference 2 years made in my overall maturity and physical presence. take a kid add in the fact they either did a repeat in 9th and then a PG where they are being groomed to play D1 lacrosse. Odds are they are committed so speaking to the college coach every other week and discussing their progress. This type of kid knows whats on the line. So As a coach I would take the 20 year old freshman over the 18 year old. Like you said a player can go to a PG year and really take minimal classes workout at the private school/boarding school and put on size in the gym and come in ready to play. If you say otherwise you don't know the inner working of these schools like Deerfield and Salisbury etc. They want to be #1 in the prep school world and take on players that normally wouldn't be able to attend. They even pay for their schooling. I know of a number of athletes that have done this.

In my opinion I feel if you are going to repeat or PG you still play with your age appropriate class and when its time to enter college you enter college as the year you are going to graduate. It is ridiculous when I hear about players who say they are going to PG yet they are still in their appropriate grade in school and play a year down. That is absolute BS. At least the repeats have to deal with the fact they are repeating. Also being a repeat doesn't always guarantee you will be on your travel teams top team there is a player that put his trust in a director of a very large club and by his recommendation repeated and now isn't even the starting on that club teams A team. Not deserved great player great family

Well, I don't agree all the way but do see your points. I wonder, was it all magic of being a year older that put you on the field or was it just the odds of the relative talent and experience? You played behind a senior just like many could be cursed by the roster timing. Somebody sat behind Rob Pannell for 2-3 years and then played, but I don't think that one would be explained by just getting older and bigger in the weight room. I also see the point that dooms any argument. If lacrosse coaches see it this way, they will recruit this way. I never really thought of it this way but encouraging a recruit to reclassify or PG is ostensibly selling the kid and family on an unpaid redshirt year. Coaches have so little scholarship money to give and I would guess are averse to awarding it for 5 years to any recruit. So just forget about incentivizing a parent paid first redshirt year. That written, some programs like Maryland and Syracuse have a lot of redshirt freshmen now. Maybe one of the new trends will be to encourage kids to enroll without a scholarship for a redshirt year. I'd presume that it is better for a kid to spend that year on a practice field in college than on a prep school field as a PG. I have been watching Founders League lacrosse for over 30 years, and the current state of it is a joke. These PGs aren't adding anything to their game by blowing up 14, 15 and 16 year olds as 19 year olds. It's just the final act of the pathetic playing down thing in club lacrosse. I wish all the college coaches who are identifying the best 2019s who are 16 as I write. It isn't my job on the line if they are wrong, so to each his own.

Well, I don't agree all the way but do see your points. I wonder, was it all magic of being a year older that put you on the field or was it just the odds of the relative talent and experience? You played behind a senior just like many could be cursed by the roster timing. Somebody sat behind Rob Pannell for 2-3 years and then played, but I don't think that one would be explained by just getting older and bigger in the weight room. I also see the point that dooms any argument. If lacrosse coaches see it this way, they will recruit this way. I never really thought of it this way but encouraging a recruit to reclassify or PG is ostensibly selling the kid and family on an unpaid redshirt year. Coaches have so little scholarship money to give and I would guess are averse to awarding it for 5 years to any recruit. So just forget about incentivizing a parent paid first redshirt year. That written, some programs like Maryland and Syracuse have a lot of redshirt freshmen now. Maybe one of the new trends will be to encourage kids to enroll without a scholarship for a redshirt year. I'd presume that it is better for a kid to spend that year on a practice field in college than on a prep school field as a PG. I have been watching Founders League lacrosse for over 30 years, and the current state of it is a joke. These PGs aren't adding anything to their game by blowing up 14, 15 and 16 year olds as 19 year olds. It's just the final act of the pathetic playing down thing in club lacrosse. I wish all the college coaches who are identifying the best 2019s who are 16 as I write. It isn't my job on the line if they are wrong, so to each his own.

Not for PG year. That is strictly business. Boarding schools blew up the PG counts for only one reason: collect from families chasing a preppie sport college career. I'm well aware that a lot of preps in Maryland and in the DC area underwrite some kids through.

I know of one from Smithtown East not paying a dime for his PG year.

Right because mad lax 2019 are a bunch of 15 and 16yr olds. That's the only way Maryland teams win. And that's a fact! I would be ashamed of that. I was brought up different. But you guys will sit there and chest pump over that.